Oh, no, I'm so conflicted! -- Dick Cheney (again) supports gay marriage....

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Jun 1, 2009.

  1. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Ok, this is completely screwing up my untarnished vision of Dick Cheney as Darth Vader (you know, Cheney behind the scenes; manipulating the Office of Legal Council lawyers in 2002; helping draw up torture memos; personally overseeing CIA waterboarding at Guantanamo....)



    Now Cheney is appearing... sort of soft and fuzzy... almost human. Dammit (actually he's said this before -- maybe it's a clever ploy of Cheney's to "soften up" his left-wing critics?). Great. So now Cheney is slightly to the left of Obama on gay marriage.



    "I think that freedom means freedom for everyone," replied the former VP. "As many of you know, one of my daughters is gay, and it is something we have lived with for a long time in our family. I think people ought to be free to enter into any kind of union they wish."



    He is blatanly manipulating the gay community's heartstrings! It's a calculated trick to curry favor! haha -- Or, at the very least, as Nick8 would say, it's another example of the dominoes falling....



    From Huffington Post:
    Cheney has made similar arguments in support of gay marriage in the past, including during the run-up to the 2004 election. But his current comments come at a moment when the Republican Party and conservative movement is increasingly split on the issue. Bush recount lawyer Ted Olsen and John McCain campaign manager Steve Schmidt have both argued in favor of gay marriage. The religious right, as expected, remains opposed.

    Caught up in the debate is the Obama administration. The president has said he supports civil unions for gay couples but that he remains committed to marriage being between and man and woman. His press department has been completely quiet about the recent California Supreme Court case upholding a ban on gay marriage in the state -- something that, it seems, Cheney would object to in spirit if not law.




    YouTube - Dick Cheney on Same-Sex Marriage
     
  2. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    You neglected to mention that Cheney only supports it on a state level. He is fully in support of DOMA which acts to exclude federal marriage rights, including the tax savings and Social Security benefits, from legally married gay couples.

    Cheney's still a shit.
     
  3. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    Not so fast! Getting lost is his whole statement:

    I think people ought to be free to enter into any kind of union they wish. Any kind of arrangement they wish. The question of whether or not there ought to be a federal statute to protect this, I don't support.
    Cheney Offers Support For Gay Marriage (VIDEO)

    He is operating under State's rights and a fair reading of his quote is that he thinks they shouldn't be supported by the federal Government or states where gay marriage is not law.
     
  4. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    I don't believe anything this man says anymore.
     
  5. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    Damn you, Will, I was just sitting down to start this thread but you've beaten me. Again.

    Well, kudos to Dick. Good for him. It just shows to go ya that having an openly gay member of the family will change even the most stalwart of minds. To his credit, he used to talk about the right to enter into any kind of "relationship" people wanted and now he's moved on to any kind of "union" so he's squarely in the marriage arena. That makes him even more progressive than Obama although I don't doubt for a moment that Barack secretly backs gay marriage and is just doing the politico thing by not publicly expressing it.

    Ultimately, Cheney's being true to his conservative roots by refusing to back a federal statue in favor of state's rights on the issue. I look forward to the time when the discrepancies in the laws between them mean that the issue will have to be decided once and for all before the Supreme Court as it inevitably must.

     
    #5 B_Nick8, Jun 1, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2009
  6. Randll86

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    Did you ever?... The fact that anyone, would believe anything, coming out of ANY politicians mouth boggles the mind...
     
  7. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    I'm so sorry, Nick8. I would've loved for you to start this thread (seeing how I'm now in danger of becoming the Promiscuous Thread Whore around here).


    Jason, I did realize that Cheney favors a state-rights approach. But, it's clear that his daughter Mary (and Heather) have changed his mind to the big picture.

    That's how this whole thing is supposed to work: we change hearts and minds by coming out to our family and friends. That's what Harvey Milk told us all to do 30+ years back. Kudos to Mary.
     
  8. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    Exactly.

    And Will? Nothing to be conflicted about. In your heart, you've always loved dick.
     
  9. midlifebear

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    I love the fact Cheney has so many stents, plus he's got special pumps installed in the backs of his knees to help blood flow back to the lungs. Does this man walk or does he maneuver the world in an electric scooter -- as seen on TV? It's only a matter of time. Vascular disease as rampant as Cheney's can't be prevented from eventually collapsing. I suggest that he doesn't strike me as a mammal that has time on his side. Oh, the joy! Oh, the rapture! Oh, the total lack of a sympathetic bone in my body for his existence.
     
  10. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Cheney's like Hyman Roth. He's been dying of the same heart attack for 20 years.

    Cheney is no different on gay marriage than he was before. The federal level is necessary for recognition and is essential if we're to uphold the 14th amendment as the law of all the land, not just the states that want to uphold it.

    I don't want scraps from Cheney's table and neither should any person being denied equal rights.
     
  11. houtx48

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    i don't think the pumps are getting enough blood to the brain. why is he even in public anymore.
     
  12. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    But alas, any/every move this guy makes is met in these parts with sadomasochistic rapture. It's the pillow biters that give this guy more airtime in these parts, than the GOPinistas. I get more Fox News updates on LSPG than the Rush Limbaugh Forum For Absentmindedness.
     
  13. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Ahem.

    If Cheney had condemned a gay union, you would have slammed him for that.

    He endorses it publicly, and you offer the above synopsis?

    I understand that you and most here hate Cheney with a passion. But dude deserves kudos for this public statement.:cool:
     
  14. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    What part of, "He is fully in support of DOMA which acts to exclude federal marriage rights, including the tax savings and Social Security benefits, from legally married gay couples," did you miss?

    He's offering, "separate but equal," under the guise that it really is, somehow, equal when legally it clearly is not.
     
  15. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    Look, I can't stand the man or his politics but if he wants to come out for gay marriage on a state level, I'll take every Republican vote in every state I can get.
     
  16. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    1. The way I read his comments is that he thinks the issue of marriage should be left at the state level; not the issue of gay marriage.

    2. There are no tax savings from being legally married. Actually, you are penalized for being married under our tax system.

    Marriage penalty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    3. Is this social security beneficiary issue really a major hangup here? Or is this just making a point?
     
  17. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    You won't get it. Cheney's a private voter now and in his scenario, Wyoming doesn't have to honor a New York marriage contract and nor does the federal government. He's wholly committed to keeping you a second class citizen. Fuck him.

    Compromise doesn't work. It didn't in Missouri and doesn't now.
     
  18. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Still a red herring. So long as the feds refuse to honor the 14th amendment, it doesn't work. Loving v. Virginia all over again.

    That's wrong. Gay couples now pay taxes on spousal social security benefits and, more onerously, spousal medical benefits. If you're covered under your legal spouse's health insurance plan, you get whacked with income tax on the value of those benefits because the fed says you're not really married. And what if you're dependent upon your spouse for income and everything else? YOU get taxed for it because you still have to file separately. There's no way to be a homemaker and be gay without being taxed for it. As a widow or widower, you can't get an increase in Social Security benefits upon death of your spouse. Straight couples can file jointly or individually. Gay couples get no such option with the IRS. There are also federal estate taxes. Currently gays have no protection against the death tax as straight couples do.

    There's more!

    In 2009, the GAO prepared a new list which totaled about 1,100 federal benefits that married straight couples get which gay couples do not. Here's a brief list of various items. Peruse it for a wake-up call.

    It's part of a much bigger package which, as you can see, can definitely cause hardship to couples, particularly when it comes to life and death issues.
     
  19. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    You wan to give people a benefit of the doubt.
    Everyone did with the previous administration around 9/11.
    And despite politicians lie, some of them don't make whoppers that are so bad that thousands die because of it.
     
  20. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    I understand that you are giving up many rights/benefits due to marriage; but I thought you were referring to federal income tax; in which case there is not an advantage to being married; in fact, it is just the opposite.
     
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