Ok, I'll say it. I'm ashamed to be Gay.

[earllogjam]

Have you ever thought that it's your job that's the problem and not you?

It's hard to become the person you want to be if you are denying that every day of your working life. Some places corrode your insides more than others.

Climbing the corporate ladder as a gay man for me was not very fulfilling simply because I had to find a place to work where I could be comfortable being me.

That said I understand your feelings completely and empathize.

 

[BIGBULL29]

Rikter8,



Well, honestly, Rikter8 I have to tell you that I believe that you cannot help your natural inclinations sexually. There will be other times where you won't be able to hide things. I know. I didn't come out until I was 24. All throughout my college years I dated women. I had a steady woman for 4 years. She knew I was gay. I did too, but I didn't want to be. She loved me, I loved her. But in the end, I had to be myself and I couldn't change who I was. She found another guy and is happily married. My path has been quite different. I do have to say that after 14 years of having come out the first time, that I'm much more comfortable with my sexuality.

Oh, and coming out isn't just a one time thing. It's a life-long process. Most people don't assume I'm gay, in spite of what my Avatar shows... (It was Halloweeen :biggrin1. So, I get to choose when I allow others into that part of my life. It's almost always a choice. Sometimes it's not a choice and someone notices something that tips them off. I can deny it or I admit it. These days if someone asks, I tell them the truth. I figure if they're bold enough to ask, I can be bold enough to tell...



I find this behavior in "straight" men interesting. I put straight in quotes because if a male is grabbing another male's crotch, that's same sex sexual behavior no matter what that person's stated orientation. It would make me highly uncomfortable to be grabbed by a co-worker at a work function. If it would have been me, depending on the circumstance, I would think seriously about filing sexual harrassment charges... Then again, I don't like being grabbed when I don't want to be grabbed... I know it comes down to personality.



I have ALWAYS been careful at work. Eventually people find out anyway, co-workers that is. If someone asks me what I've done with my weekend and I'm dating someone, I don't play the "pronoun game." I use "he" and I'm out, instantly. Of course, I have observed what happens to others suspected of being gay or who are out in that particular work place, calculating the risks of coming out first. This is what I mean when I say that coming out is a life-long process.



Well, if you want to hide it, no, it doesn't help much.

I can't help but advise you that what's most important is for you to accept yourself as you are. What other's think is quite irrelevant, actually, in my experience. I am happiest when I've learned to love all parts of myself, even my shadow-self. All I can be is human. And a human being is a limited being subject to being limited.

I found psychotherapy to be immensely helpful at some point in accepting my own sexuality. That doesn't end either since I believe sexuality is constantly in development.

Also, having friends with whom you can be yourself because they love you unconditionally is essential to me. Yes, yes, ultimately we are all alone and must take care of ourselves. That doesn't mean I have to choose to be alone for my entire life. I can make friends and be who I am with them.

Who knows? Maybe someday you'll find a guy to date in that circle of friends. And you'll be in yet another stage of your sexual development.

Most of all, take care of yourself. It's not easy being gay in a heterosexist world. Just remember that you have plenty of company on your journey if you choose to find others on the path...

Well said, Simcha! Insightful post indeed.

You aren't alone, Richter8. PLEASE SEE THIS!!!! First find a comfort zone. Find like-minded people. Find gay men with similar interests without basing everything on a sexual relationship. Find out who you really are and what you want. Find the strength to hold onto to the person you are.

Your shame is just the result of not accepting who you are. How do you learn to accept yourself? Seems impossible, right? Well, you can, but it's a process. Accepting yourself comes from accepting your humanity. To accept your own humanity is to see through the humanity of others. Look beyond their superficiality and the everyday facade. Try to see people in a more raw state. All suffer in life, my friend. You are not different in any way. Although no one, gay or straight, is just like you, people are still people; they are not any more or any less human than you (you are a person, right?). Now make it a rule to start feeling your humanity and to feel other's, too.

What I just said above will seem too simple and impractical. But, it's only because you still will not have yet understood the simple words. But, please, contemplate my words.

You are always safe and secure with BigBull29. I offer you my loving compassion.:wink:

 

[simcha]

Well said, Simcha! Excellent post!

You aren't alone, Richter8. PLEASE SEE THIS!!!!

Find a comfort zone. Find like-minded people. Find gay men with similar interests without basing everything on a sexual relationship. Find out who you really are. Find the strength to hold onto to the person you are.

Your shame is just the result of not accepting who you are. How do you learn to accept yourself? Seems impossible, right? Well, you can, but it's a process. Accepting yourself comes from accepting your humanity. To accept your own humanity is to see through the humanity of others. Look beyond their superficiality. Try to see people in a more raw state. All suffer in life, my friend. You are not different. Although no one, gay or straight, is just like you, people are still people, nothing more and less. And, yes, you are one. Make it a rule to start feeling your humanity and to feel other's, too.

What I just said above will seem too simple and impractical. But, it's only because you still will not have yet understood the simple words. You need to observe how other people suffer in life and not to see yourself as different because of your sexuality.

You are always safe and secure with BigBull29. I offer you my loving compassion.:wink:

Thanks for the compliment BigBull29... You're comment is great too....

Take care of yourself Riktor8

 

[clear]

Lol…


Wow… I forgot just how wonderful a community LPSG is. I am SO thoroughly proud to still be counted among its numbers. Though our group can bite, fight, kick, and yell (and do many, many, other things with the best of ‘em) to each other, I think our true character and resolve- as a community of friends -is so beautifully exemplified through the kinds of support found in discussions like this. I can only hope the original poster truly appreciates this amazing outpouring for what it really is: a public declaration of our Love and belief in him.


Rikter8, as was stated clearly before, you are not alone. Many of us posses great empathy for your situation, if for no other reason than; we have already lived it. There is really nothing more I can say that has not already been expressed by the likes of Lex, jeff-B, simcha, and even rec3000. But the little I can add deals solely with the condition of your heart, and the secret desires for your life found within it.


As was mentioned before, no one can ever do for you what you must ultimately do and understand for yourself (something I am quite sure you knew before even making your request known). However how you go about doing this is a mystery all unto itself. But one that will have no meaning or purpose unless you decided to seek it out with everything that is within you. What I think you are truly asking about- or in search of -in this case, is that thing which is uniquely you and yourself; an identity. I believe as you begin to define who you are as an individual first, all the other roles in your life (i.e. as a son, brother, Lover, friend, etc.) will take on their proper meaning and context, and in time, will quite simply fall into place. For how else can you be a Lover to someone unless you are first made to Love yourself? Or how can you be a friend to someone until you are first made to trust yourself? These are things only you can do and they are done by just doing them. Literally! Even if that means, for example, walking by a mirror or a reflection of yourself in a window or piece of glass and saying “Damn, I’m fine!”; then boy, do it!...lol. Because if the most vapid and insipid among society can do it on a daily basis, why can’t you? I mean it may seem silly at first reading, but like all things, you got to start small, but more importantly, you got to start somewhere. So start treating yourself the way you would want someone else to treat you, and just you watch how your perspective of the world starts changing. And in time you will become aware of what it means to be you and ultimately your place in this world.


You are still a young man, and God forbidding an unforeseen tragedy happening, you have way more years of your life ahead of you, then you do behind you. So in the least, take some solace in that fact. It’s not all going to happen overnight. Neither is it going to happen by being given to you. You just have to be willing to put yourself out there and accept the cost of what it means to be you. I could go on here and talk about that whole fear issue too, but I’ll save that for another time. You just take care and stay safe, and remember, we are all here cheering you on.

Respectfully,



My two cents...


Ciao-


T.

 

[B_NineInchCock_160IQ]

It didn't matter that he was married, just that I was looking at another mans butt at the time.

They have to know about me... they haven't said too much, and we joke alot...but it's never actually came out there...and it shouldnt.
Although...when my co-worker grabbed my crotch while at a work dinner party offsite ...and I didn't jump or flinch... That opened his eyes a bit.
(He was straight, fun loving, and very drunk, and it was for fun)

I am cautious at work in general since it's a corporate environment, but I think part of my frustration came from being caught, having to be forced to live a life that's fabricated to fit the "Norm", and turning older and getting tired of the fabrication.

My other problem is my embarrasment shows in my face quickly. Fair skinned that turns beet red...doesnt help matters much.

my point wasn't that he was married, but rather that you were caught looking at another human being's butt. If you were straight and looking at a girl's butt, wouldn't you feel the same way?

I suppose it may depend on who it is that catches you in the act. Some guys, upon catching another guy checking out a girl's ass, would just give a knowing wink or a thumbs up or something along those lines. Still, inappropriate and potentially embarrassing at work or in any situation.

 

[clear]

Well said, Simcha! Insightful post indeed.

You aren't alone, Richter8. PLEASE SEE THIS!!!! First find a comfort zone. Find like-minded people. Find gay men with similar interests without basing everything on a sexual relationship. Find out who you really are and what you want. Find the strength to hold onto to the person you are.

Your shame is just the result of not accepting who you are. How do you learn to accept yourself? Seems impossible, right? Well, you can, but it's a process. Accepting yourself comes from accepting your humanity. To accept your own humanity is to see through the humanity of others. Look beyond their superficiality and the everyday facade. Try to see people in a more raw state. All suffer in life, my friend. You are not different in any way. Although no one, gay or straight, is just like you, people are still people; they are not any more or any less human than you (you are a person, right?). Now make it a rule to start feeling your humanity and to feel other's, too.

What I just said above will seem too simple and impractical. But, it's only because you still will not have yet understood the simple words. But, please, contemplate my words.

You are always safe and secure with BigBull29. I offer you my loving compassion.:wink:

BigBull29...

Just wow!... just wow.

T-

 

[Smaccoms]

There are many guys out there that are out and proud, and to them I commend their efforts and strength.

But for whatever reason, I am just ashamed of my orientation.
I don't really know why, but I work so hard to conceal it...and it's becoming more and more difficult.

Today, I was at work, and working side by side of a co-worker. He's married, and good looking... well I glanced at his butt while another co-worker was watching me...and I felt the curtain of shame and embarrasment flood my face as I was caught looking at his butt.
Not a word was spoken...and I tried to conceal it my best by averting attention to a seeming problem of what we were working on.

I know that there's really nothing wrong with being Gay, but I just can't seem to accept it.
I just turned 30, so I'm having somewhat of a mid-life crisis of being alone, not accepted, and not having a solid relationship with anyone
There must be others out there like me.

What do you do, or have you done for positive reinforcement of your sexuality, and self acceptance?

You say your having trouble accepting yourself even though you know theres nothing wrong with being gay. SO obviously, there is a problem here, you just need to find it. If it's not in you, then it has to be somewhere else. Perhaps you have a family member or something who is really against it, and that is whats making it so difficult for you? If thats the case, then you need to figure some things out in your head. What I suggest that would probably help the most is seeing a therapist, I'm no expert. But I think the problem might be (I'm not saying for sure) you're having trouble separating yourself from others. I think you might be trying to pleasing others important to you more so than yourself, but you are important too. But anyway, those are just my thoughts.

 

[Professor_Chaos]

I am in a different category, but I often wish I had no attraction to guys at all. I mean its easier for me to hide as my primary focus is women, and they are what I want for relationships, guys are like a side dish that I am sometimes in the mood for, and often I feel ashamed of that, even though I know the whole logical thing that it doesn't matter at all, I dont let many people know about it because I dont feel it is very relevant.

So that is from my perspective.

 

[novice_btm]

R8, we're from about he same area, and I know how sentiments run there. Not too far from there, a guy was murdered for confessing a same-sex crush. It later became national news, as the "Jenny Jones" case. One of the locals interviewed said of the area, "[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]...few want to talk on the record because, as one patron puts it, 'This is the kind of place where, if you talk too much, you can come home and find your house torched.'" Another said that he "[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]woke up on the morning after the murder had been reported on the local TV news to find his car vandalized, the word faggot scrawled on it." Granted a few years have passed, but I still hear the same thoughts when I'm there. It's not a "welcoming" area. However, even if it was, very few people say that coming out is easy.

The most important thing is, that you don't beat yourself up about it. Don't compound the issue with self-inflicted pressure. The important thing, is to be yourself, whatever that is at the moment. We all change over time, so whatever you are now, will probably change in the future. That "be yourself", has another layer of importance too. Be what you think you are, and what you want to be. Don't force yourself to be whatever you "think" a gay guy should be, just be who you are.

To rec3000. I'd just echo to consider your presentation. While the underlying message of pride is good, this IS a "support" site, so when people ask for help, I think it's important to consider what state they may be in.

To those that think someone just needs to "deal with it", I'd just say, you don't know what people's situations are. There are all kinds of pressures on people, and it's rarely fair to judge people you don't even know, on such a personal issue. For me, I know that the case cited above had a great effect on me in so many ways, not the least of which being that the murderer, is a close relative.
[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[goodwood]

Rikter -
Thanks for sharing how you are feeling. None of us would ever know otherwise. Thanks for letting us be able to be encouraging and supportive of you. We are here for that purpose.

 

[crescendo69]

I'm still coming out..

 

[dannymawg]

I'm still coming out..

As am I...

R8, we're from about the same area, and I know how sentiments run there... [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]It's not a "welcoming" area.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]

The most important thing is, that you don't beat yourself up about it. Don't compound the issue with self-inflicted pressure.

[/SIZE][/FONT]I'd have to concur with these two points as your main problems, C. I have 10 more years on you of beating myself up. All I can say is that you will find a point where you will have to make major changes to thought processes in order to stop.

Getting out of your area would help to alleviate pressure, too, as has been stated. I know - easier said than done. But maybe a major change like that is what I'm speaking of.

Just know if you do consider moving, Chicago is close by and I could use a roommate...

And remember - I also know the difference between a odd-fire and even-fire GM 231 V6 :wink:

D

 

[novice_btm]

...Just know if you do consider moving, Chicago is close by and I could use a roommate...

Now THAT is an offer I'd jump all over. :wink:

 

[Rikter8]

Now THAT is an offer I'd jump all over. :wink:

Oh you aren't kiddin!
I may take you up on that offer.

There is some seriously good advice here, and I appreciate all of it.
Your all right.
My tentative plan is as follows:
1. Start feeling better about who I am, and realize what people have been pounding in my head for the last 10 years - I am special in my own way, and that I need to be proud of ME, and not what i'm "Supposed to be"
2. More Social time with friends - I've been cooped up for too long
3. Focus on my main goal of graduation this year - so that I may MOVE on with my life, and start the Healing process.
I think once I graduate, I will remove a great deal of stress in my life.
I am definitely going to quit my job, because it HAS placed a great burdon on my shoulders, but not until I get close to graduation day.
4. More fun time - I honestly do not have enough fun time with my tasks, chores, homework, work, family issues, etc etc.

Smaccoms - You've got the right idea too, I usually am more interested in pleasing others, even at my expense. I think it's because I want to be accepted....which...is odd because Im just your average joe neighbor kid that has a nack for everything. I shouldn't need to "Get" acceptance.

5. I do so many good things for so many people, but for whatever reason, I don't credit myself for them. So I need to work on that.

NIC - Your right, It was the act of being caught that probably turned my face red.
The guy that caught me is a close co-worker/friend that I've helped alot in many ways. I know the family well, and I am welcome at their home. BUT...there's always homosexual jokes thrown in here and there... He has said "I don't care if someone is gay or not, It doesnt bother me, it really doesnt matter, they're good people" but working in a lab with "the guys" brings the dirty shop talk that you go along with. It isn't really derogatory, just bullshit talk...but it could be festering in the back of my mind, and I dont realize it.

I don't think I'll ever be a Shout out and Proud man, but I would like to be a "Im me, this is what I do, this is what I enjoy, and that's it", with confidence and stride.

 

[Dave NoCal]

Rikter, you have gotten some great suggestions and support. I can only offer a couple of additional suggestions.

In my case reading on gay topics was very helpful. There are a number of great books from historical analysis to high quality (and very hot) fiction. Seeing my self as part of a movement that has been going on a long time and making TREMENDOUS strides helped get me less self-conscious (Wow, that was a LONG time ago). Also, living in a hostile, repressive area and working in a non-supportive environment can really eat away at your soul. You might want to consider beginning to formulate a long-term plan to be in different envirionments. Many corporations are very supportive and have active gay employee groups. Many areas, even outside of large cities can be quite hospitable. My partner and I live in the country outside a city of about 80,000 and find it to be very comfortable. Of course, it's California.

As others noted, there are many gay men who share similar interests and hobbies. I designed and built my own house and, currently, am obsessed with DKW autombiles from the 50s (go figure). I can't write it nearly as eloquently as bigbull29, whose supportive comments totally blew me over to the point I started crying, but I too am available at any time.

Dave

 

[Rikter8]

Relocating is the ultimate goal. It's a nice area...but....I need to spread my wings a bit.

I dream of the day where someone says "Your Gay?".
And I can stand proud, without shame and say, "Yes. Yes I am"

 

[NCbear]

Rikter8,

For quite a while I've read your posts and talked with you in chat and that sort of thing, and you've always struck me as someone who knows who he is, personality-wise.

Use that as a foundation, and work from that strength. God knows it's not easy to have to keep coming out over and over and over, when faced by heterosexuals' heterosexist assumptions, but it'll get easier the more often you say, "Well, actually, my lover is a man. His name is . . . "

Several people implied this, and one said it, earlier in the thread: If you express your sexuality matter-of-factly, with no hint of apology or shame (no matter how you feel inside), others will tend to respond positively--if not with respect, at least with civility. Even the most raging homophobes tend to be disarmed by quiet but firm self-confidence.

Shame is what homophobes want us gay/lesbian/bisexual/queer (and transgender/questioning/etc.) people to feel. It's all about social control of the odd, the strange, the different. It's also all about conformity to social norms. Refuse. Resist. Deny them their power, and they won't have it, particularly over you. And especially in your head.

Purely and simply put, the problem (for the homophobes) is that we don't conform. We've already begun revising the "standard" view that gay and lesbian and bisexual people don't have children and don't want children. Now, we (as a group) have the opportunity to turn the conformist ideal on its head.

Now, we can radically change society by making every space safe for gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and other queer people: We can act as though it is already a queer-friendly world, thereby accustoming ourselves and others to that new norm and, in the process, creating that new norm.

If you think two men hand in hand looks strange now, how strange will it look when you can see same-sex intimacy (NOT to be confused with tonsil hockey or over[t]ly sexual groping) everywhere, not just in Greenwich Village in New York City, the Castro in San Francisco, or the Halsted Street community in Chicago?

NCbear (who thinks that the historical Jesus may have suggested the most radical social change ever by commanding his followers to "love thy neighbor"--in Aramaic, of course, not King James's English )

 

[Lex]

Amazing post, NC Bear. Well said.

I need to save it for future reference.

 

[losangelestim]

god is this guy 12 years old or something?
waa waa waa i looked at a guy's ass and i'm embarrassed waa waa waa.
well i'm embarrassed for you too.
sometimes i look at a guys ass out of pleasure, but most of the time i do it to intimidate. i love it when a jock-type straight guy breaks down and feels all vulnerable because some big masculine homo gives him the once over. who's the dominant man in that situation?! and if he responds in a positive light then maybe there's some fun to be had.
be a man
have appetites
sate them
act out in the world

 

[BIGBULL29]

Just know if you do consider moving, Chicago is close by and I could use a roommate...D

Can I come and be your roommate?:biggrin1: