Old World - New World

titan1968

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Although I was born and raised in the 'New World', I am of European stock and a European at heart: I have friends and family in Europe, whom I care for dearly and whom I see whenever I can; my tastes in food, drink and dress are European, but my beliefs and mannerisms are clearly Canadian. I am the product of the Old World and New World-- a hybrid.

What I like about the Old World: the cultures, the refinement, the history, the architecture, the diversity, the national and regional cuisines.

I do find that the New World is in a slump. It could just be a transition.

Boabysup, you're quite right.

You could name names throught history thats just the way things go, there will be great men and women of the past and there will continue to be great men and women in the future.
I think the one big difference is history.

Does history make a place better? i personally dont think so, however it does make it slightly more interesting. IMO
 

ruffboy

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a less than holier-than-thou attitude is one strike in favor of the new world. we all just suffer from inferiority complexes thanks to our mother/father lands ;-)

Native Americans

aussie wines are divine, yes
bruce springsteen (listen to "tunnel of love" and tell me you don't ball like a baby)
the old west
reviving the human spirit that anything can happen
and that anyone can do it (give me some leeway there, but in the history of mankind, we're inching forward on this)
jazz
rock and roll
hunter s. thompson
the winnebago
the corvette
the shelby mustang
the PICKUP TRUCK
rodeo
willie nelson
the place where albert einstein and john lennon chose to live
stadium concerts
john travolta
robert redford
maya angelou
paul simon
perfection of the hamburger

btw, i'm a trained architect, europe can't continue to rest on its laurels of the fantastic work of you ancestors, y'all ain't crankin' out anything better/worse than anyone else right now. i love the excitement of contemporary architecture as much as the next guy, but european contemporaries keep falling into the twinge of brutalistic tendencies with their structures. the death of humanism. sir norman foster being an exception. oh, and the residential work in sweden is stunning...but australia is doing it just as well ;-)
 

Knockernail

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LordPendragon, you are hard to get, hahaha. It´s just because you are brit :biggrin1: .

Mercurial, i love Sarah Vaughn, Ella, Louis, Gershwin, yes.

But for the "new worlders" from the old one (i hope you´ll let me include spain in europe):

Nôtre Dame
Buda and Pest
Praha
Rome
Barcelona´s Sacred Family (this is newer than new world)
Alhambra (Granada)
Altamira Caves (really old)
Athens
StPetersburg
Loira Castles
Spanish omelette
Spanish wines
Spanish cheeses (unknown for the most)
French cheeses
Mediterranean food (no brit or french, please)
Soccer
Handball
Rugby
The Curie´s
Picasso
Shakespeare
Cervantes
Quevedo
Machado
Beaudelair
Marx
Jung
Freud
Columbus
Dozens of languages
The Beatles
Rolling Stones
Maria Callas
Placido Domingo
Money (i know, i know)
banks
Otto and Diesel
Cars, of course
Ferrari, Bugatti, Rolls, Aston Martin, Marcos, Hispano-Suiza (anyone remember it)TWR, Lamborghini, Venturi
Liberté, egalité, fraternité
Monet
Van Gogh
Cruyff
Puskas
Kubala
Oscar Wilde
My town
My soccer team
and, of course, myself
:biggrin1:

Just a little piece
 

boabysup

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SKbum

really resting on laurels? i suppose you have been to Rome, Paris and Barcelona to name a few of the worlds most incredible architectural citys?

I heard California had planned to build an incredible bridge but instead opted for a concrete block???

Compair that to the bridge they are building in france and tell me where the great architecture is? the French Millau Viaduct designed by brits and french, look it up.

and if you already know all about this stuff then im sorry for coming across all pissed off but i found your post slightly offensive, i mean even in Scotland where i live there is the Falkirk wheel, a geniunely exellent peice of work.
 

Lordpendragon

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We invented Football, but the Brasilians made it the beautiful game.

We invented Cricket, but the West Indies and The Aussies took it to sublime levels.

We invented Rugby but the All Blacks made it an awesome display of strength and skill and many other things.

We developed Boxing but the US (and Cuba) have given us the masters of pugilism.

You gave us Mel Gibson - ooops, but also Isabella Allende, so that's even.

You have given us Tobacco and too many calories.

But then we gave you two world wars, a holocaust, fascism, communism etc etc
 

Lordpendragon

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and if you already know all about this stuff then im sorry for coming across all pissed off but i found your post slightly offensive, i mean even in Scotland where i live there is the Falkirk wheel, a geniunely exellent peice of work.

Hadrian's Wall. :eek: Great piece of work.
 

ruffboy

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shit you mentioned Lord Foster, i'm the idiot.

thank you. no intent to offend obviously, and some of my tone is the offense-sensitivity we new worlders hold at constantly hearing how much better everything is in the old world, to which i apologize myself. but i do feel that from what i've experienced of europe myself, as well as my studies and continuing career education that there is not THAT much going on currently in the old world that isn't A) happening in the new world equally or B) doesn't tinge again on what i called the brutalism of many contemporary/modernist architects. btw, that too is happening here. Leibskind's denver art museum is actually making people physically ILL when they move through it, despite its dynamic exterior. (its also executed like a piece of shit, but i'll blame the local firm for that, the construction administration, though liebskind really should pay more attention to how his vision is carried out).

anyway, are rome, paris, barcelona exquisite cities? without a doubt. my only thesis here being, much of that is because of the brilliance of the original city planners and the architects of yesteryear. so i'll stand by my 'resting on their laurels' take. truth be told though, no one's doing much awe inspiring, uplifting, making the world better for the human beings moving through it work anywhere these days. which is sad.
 

ruffboy

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Hadrian's Wall. :eek: Great piece of work.

oh, no doubt, its fantastic work. FROM ALMOST 2,000 YEARS AGO!!!!!

and as for ancient world works, anyone familiar with the stone cities of the Anazazi? the temple complexes in Teotehuacan? the absolutely surreal stonework of Cuzco? the new world owes no apologies for ancient work either. though they do deserve some apologies for never getting any press for it.

the largest building in America, until the mid 1800's was the multi-floor adobe pueblo structure found in Chaco Canyon in northwest New Mexico. is that in any european history books?

seriously though, i'm not pissed, nor do i want to incite a riot, LPD, this is a fantastically interesting topic, and one i've wanted to have with an old worlder for some time, so many thanks for it ;-)

(btw, the internet: new world, al gore did it :) )
 

ruffboy

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i'm reminded of the classic monty python "life of brian" scene:

what have the romans ever done for us!!!!!!

uhhh.... the aquaduct?
sanitation... laws....

and two points for giving us the monty python troop
and benny hill, that crazy sumbitch taught me about boobies late at night on pbs...
 

ruffboy

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You could name names throught history thats just the way things go, there will be great men and women of the past and there will continue to be great men and women in the future.

I think the one big difference is history.

Does history make a place better? i personally dont think so, however it does make it slightly more interesting. IMO

just as long as we don't forget history has been happening over the entire planet for tens of thousands of years. some of it has had a bit more airtime than others though.
 

ruffboy

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Chaco Culture National Historical Park - Chaco Culture National Historical Park (U.S. National Park Service) Chaco Culture National Historical Park - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Teotihuacán - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Machu Picchu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maya architecture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (As unique and spectacular as any Greek or Roman architecture, Maya architecture spans many thousands of years)

btw, of every city i've been lucky enough to have traveled to in my life so far, Sydney is freaking GORGEOUS, the easiest to get around in, and almost sickeninly clean, populated by a genuinely positive population, smiles at every turn.

also, required reading: Amazon.com: Indian Givers: How the Indians of the Americas Transformed the World: Books: Jack Weatherford

Editorial Reviews

From Publishers Weekly
The discovery and conquest of the New World changed the Old World forever, from economy and diet to the concept of personal freedom. Anthropologist Weatherford here examines the many contributions made by New World natives. "He labors a bit on the topic of architecture but makes a convincing case for Indian Givers and the role they played in re-shaping the world," commented PW .
Copyright 1989 Reed Business Information, Inc.

From School Library Journal
YA-- Beginning with a clever title and continuing throughout the book, Weatherford lists the tremendous contributions which have been made by the Indian civilizations of the Americas to world culture. He shows the impact of gold and silver, agricultural techniques, medicine, and government on European history. The book makes for fascinating, thought-provoking reading, showing that Locke and Rousseau were both influenced by the concepts of power and government held by the people of the Americas before they produced their great documents of the Enlightment. Weatherford also shows how the spread of the potato to Europe saved many lives from the malnutrition which had haunted them when grain crops had previously failed. He has a far-reaching scope and even suggests a fascinating theory on the purpose of Machu Picchu. By showing how the world was changed through these contributions, the author gives a greater appreciation of the Indians of America to readers. A fine synthesis book for global studies programs as well as American history.
- Barbara Weathers, Duchesne Academy, Houston

From Library Journal
An anthropologist's world tourTimbuktu, Machu Picchu, Europe, and the Orientrevealing a seldom-told history. Behind scenes of everyday life, the author explains how the wealth and knowledge of Native America transformed and permeated Old World culture. The Native American roots of industrial capitalism and constitutional democracy, of the world's diverse cuisine and abundant pharmacopoeia, and of modern land use and transportation systems are demonstrated and documented. Although the title implies that the Indians donated or loaned their science to the world, native America was sacked and pillaged. This readable and informative adjunct to Alfred W. Crosby's The Columbian Exchange: Biological and Cultural Consequences of 1492 ( 1972) should have general appeal. Allen C. Turner, Univ. of Idaho, Pocatello

Book Description
"As entertaining as it is thoughtful....Few contemporary writers have Weatherford's talent for making the deep sweep of history seem vital and immediate."
THE WASHINGTON POST
After 500 years, the world's huge debt to the wisdom of the Indians of the Americas has finally been explored in all its vivid drama by anthropologist Jack Weatherford. He traces the crucial contributions made by the Indians to our federal system of government, our democratic institutions, modern medicine, agriculture, architecture, and ecology, and in this astonishing, ground-breaking book takes a giant step toward recovering a true American history.
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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I think it has been a fair criticism of the old world that we are a bit snooty about our culture.

Perhaps you could tell me why you like the new world and what you think the advancements are that you have made.

I generally prefer our food, wine and cars. Don't get me wrong there are some great new world wines, but I still prefer the classics, and there are some incredible cars but I'd still have a Ferrari or Aston Martin.

Movies, Art, Literature, Architecture, Science, Medicine - what do you think?

Well..... there are many many things I love about the "old world"... but in the interest of the thread..

The '08 Viper looks better and goes faster than just about any Ferrari you can buy and costs a fraction of the price. My Viper looks better and goes faster than most Ferraris too, and cost a fraction of that fraction. Embarrassed quite a few Ferrari, Porshe, Mercedes and BMW drivers when I had my car over on the German autobahn. Nobody passed me. I'd rather have a Murcielago roadster, but my current ride is much cheaper and easier to maintain, and almost as fast.
In addition, Henry Ford's Model T, the muscle cars of the mid 20th century, etc.. many models and names that have had an incalculable impact on the motor world. Detroit has been kind of lazy the last couple decades but at a few points in history they led the world in terms of industry and innovation.

Food: Without the new world, Italy would have no tomatoes, Switzerland and France would have no chocolate, again... the contributions are incalculable. American cuisine is largely just an amalgamation of foods from all over the world, and appropriately so, as we are a country of immigrants. But even though we may have imported ice cream, hamburgers, hot dogs and pizza, we've made all of these things distinctly our own, and American-ized cuisine increasingly dominates world cuisine. Myself personally, I prefer food that has some kick to it... so in general I prefer Mexican, Tex-Mex, and Cajun cooking to anything that comes from the old world, most of which is pretty bland by comparison. Some Polish, Italian, and Spanish dishes possibly excepted, but even they usually aren't all that *spicy*. If you're going to count Asia as part of the old world, I'll give props to Indian, Thai, and Chinese food for being just as spicy as anything from the new world. But since the thread was started by an Englishman I'm assuming "old world" in this context is adopting the traditionally biased defintion of "Europe." Plus George Washington Carver invented 3 million things to do with a peanut. It's February so I have to mention that.

Movies: Film & Music in contemporary culture is so extremely heavily influenced by Hollywood, Nashville, Seattle, etc.. to try and imagine these things without that influence is absolutely impossible. I love Beethoven... but where would we be without Jazz, Blues, Rock and Roll, Hip Hop, or Rap? All distinctly American creations. American pop culture is often the target of criticism.... but for every Britney Spears there's a Trent Reznor. Okay... maybe for every 30 Britney Spears. But still. and for every ID4 or Con Air there's a Citizen Kane or Brokeback Mountain. Americans often get a bad rap for claiming that they're #1 or that they lead the world when in reality they do not... but in this one area at least, we actually do, and have been since the inception of film. Charlie Chaplin, Walt Disney, etc.

Art: hm.. must say I prefer the old world. Some influential modern art movements have been started in the new world or by new worlders... but in general I'm not a fan. Andy Warhol, Whistler, Ansel Adams, Boris Vallejo.... interesting people but none of them are exactly Da Vinci.

Literature: Chuck Palahniuk. Upton Sinclair. Mark Twain. Thomas Jefferson. C.S. Lewis. Thomas Paine. Frederick Douglas. Ralph Waldo Emerson. Henry David Thoreau. Nethaniel Hawthorne. Herman Melville. Isaac Asimov. Stephen King. Langston Hughes. Truman Capote. W.E.B. DuBois. Booker T Washington. John Updike. Brent Easton Ellis. Allen Ginsberg. Jack Kerouac. Tennessee Williams. Ernest Hemingway. T.S. Eliot. Ezra Pound. Walt Whitman. Emily Dickinson. Woody Allen. etc.

Architecture: Downtown DC is pretty I guess, and a clear reminder that NeoClassical architecture was in style in the late 18th century. The Vietnam war memorial a reminder that minimalist arhitecture was more the fad in the 1980s. Certain parts of Miami an interesting study in Art Deco arhitecture.

Science: The Manhatten Project changed the world about as much as the printing press or the wheel or any other scientific development that came before it. Interchangeable parts. The assembly line. Electricity. Airplanes. The lightbulb. The telephone. Broadcast television. Syncronized sound in film. the machine gun. the revolver. the computer. the internet. the phonograph. Skyscrapers. the zipper. Air conditioning. Frozen food. Optic fiber. Video games. The space shuttle. Genetic engineering. Photocopiers. The paper clip. Post-it notes. Those were all pretty good, too.

Medicine: Jonas Salk. the hearing aid. The electric defibrillator. Gibbon's heart-lung machine. Sabin's Polio vaccine. Jarvik's artificial heart.
 

ruffboy

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fantastic work nineinch, i think we have them at the zipper!!!!!!!!

you got 'em on the modern shit, i'm holdin' my own with ancient world (cause ten bucks says they haven't even been told of most of it)

we win!

RIOT IN DETROIT!!!!