On the other hand, some Christians ARE homophobic

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by madame_zora, Oct 29, 2006.

  1. madame_zora

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    Ugh, it really sucks being an insomniac. Almost every Sunday, I find myself greeting the dawn to the company of both Robert Schuller's Crystal Palace, and Kennedy's Coral Ridge Minstries. While I realise that neither of these are "mainstream Christian" groups, they DO have a shit-ton of followers.

    Interesting, especially in light of our current discussions, but sickening nonetheless. I like knowing what these folks are up to, because they DO have so much influence on how so many Americans think. As usual, they spent an inordinate amount of time shaming people into sending money, and easily fifty percent of their time on politics. I find this absolutely abhorent, since they are tax-exempt, and politicking from the pulpit, in a very direct and obvious way. I highly recommend watching them, either one, ANY Sunday.

    Today was particularly moving, like a bowel movement, as it was focused on attacking the ACLU!

    Actually, it was like seeing all my worst fears come true at once. They promote fear, shame, and threats- the ONLY scripture read (Schuller) was from the OT, talking about pestulance being visited upon the people by GOD, only to be relinquished when they had "repented". He went on to elaborate That disasters were in fact brought on by God's wrath, and it was our own fault for allowing this sinful society to expel God from our schools, while millions of women murder their own babies and we are even discussing (gasp!) homosexual, SINFUL marriage! Oh, he also slipped in a quickie about the horrors of taxation, it was a gas.

    Now, how do these fucktards ever balance a checkbook? You can't spend rampantly, then not pay the bills. WE THE PEOPLE will be paying the bills, and if we're really lucky, a Democrat will be in office cleaning this shit up, and get blamed for the taxes. I wish there was a smilie for eyes bugging out, then my head exploding.

    Coral Ridge Hour

    Yeah, I know the link's useless, since it only gives today's topics. You have to PAY to read it, PAY to get a blessing from God! Fuck these people, in their loose, greasy asses.
     
  2. agnslz

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    Interesting. I watch the "Hour of Power" sometimes (mostly because I think that the younger Schuller is good looking) and I rarely watch it with the sound on! I always thought that they weren't whackos about this sort of stuff. I saw them (the Schullers) on Larry King a while back and they went out of their way not to bash being gay. They were on with some other more conservative televangelist whom Larry King asked if homosexuality is a sin. That guy, of course, didn't hesitate in answering that it is. The Schullers, however, tiptoed around the question never giving a definite answer. I did think that the younger Schuller was sort of 'embarrassed' by the answers his dad was giving. I wonder if the younger Schuller isn't more conservative than the elder? Perhaps this is why they are now preaching a more hateful sermon on the "Hour of Power?" Anyway, it comes out again here this morning, so, perhaps I should watch it with the sound on this time.:redface:

    My mom watches the Lakewood Church guy (Joel Osteen) and he has tried being inclusive of gays and has never (to my knowledge) preached that homosexuality is some great sin. I'll agree that the vast majority of televangelists are slimy money hungry bastards but perhaps not all?

    That Coral Ridge guy is an outright slimy creep though!:eek: (In fact, it may have been him on Larry King with the Schullers, I can't quite remember).
     
  3. AlteredEgo

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    Well, when you put it THAT way....

    um... ew.
     
  4. Lex

    Lex
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    In Your Darkest Thoughts and Dreams
    As a kid, I used to wake up really early--like 4:30 or 5 AM and this is all you would see (pre-Cable days). Now, I really pay for cable so that I DON'T have to put up with these types of programs when I can't sleep or wake up early.

    It's SO sad that people can not see through this propaganda. How the hell is the passage connected to any of those arguments. Damn. I am SO glad that I do not liv emy lief in such a constantly fearful state that I am so easily manipulated.


    Yes, loose, greasy asses are gross. Take it fromn a fag blazing a path to hell with fire and brimstone.
     
  5. dolf250

    dolf250 New Member

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    I would bet it has been 8 or 10 years since I have seen “th hour of power.” I probably saw it a total of 5 times and do not recall them ever so much as cracking a bible. It was all a “feel good” message preached on some topic and never was scripture really quoted- just Dr. Schuller's own notes about how best to live a productive life. Looks as though things have changed with the times and the demand.
     
  6. prepstudinsc

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    I've got friends who have been on staff at both churches (and I have friends who are members at Coral Ridge) and I can tell stories about both places.

    Interestingly enough, Coral Ridge is right smack dab in the middle of the gayest part of Ft. Lauderdale and everywhere in sight of the church fly gay pride flags. Knowing that Kennedy is such a homophobe, it is quite funny when visiting the church!

    The Crystal Cathedral, however, is a totally different place. It is like the Disneyland of churches. Anything negative is to be checked at the door, they only want "positive" things there, to the point that no music can be played in minor keys, since Arvella Schuller (the wife of the founding pastor) feels that it is "sad." That is why the words to hymns are altered, most of the music is grand and glorious, everything is done with flair--to keep up the worshipper's spirit. It's all the heritage of Norman Vincent Peale--the power of positive thinking. Anyway, while they are a mainline church (Reformed Church in America), they border on evangelical, but usually have a liberal twist on things. It's a strange blend of philosophies there. They don't want to condemn anyone for anything, they want to preach the love of Jesus. It used to be the warm, fuzzy church, but underneath it all was all sorts of dysfunction because no one could ever display any emotion other than their "happy face" and all had to bow down to Arvella Schuller's wishes. Everything was orchestrated according to her plan to how it should be done. Even the former music director was told he had to wear a toupee after his first Sunday on the job, because she felt that his bald head was glaring under the TV lights.

    Now at Coral Ridge, in the "old days", the men of the choir used to be mostly gay, they had a lesbian organist who used to perform there with her Korean partner. It was well known around the church. However in the past few years, there has been a housecleaning, and everyone these days is "married", but whether or not they're straight is another matter.
    At least they give the outward appearance. Dr. Kennedy has taken religion and twisted it to fit his agenda that "all the presidents were born-again Christians" and that anyone who doesn't believe in the USA is going to hell. It seems quite unCalvinistic to me, but many things that church does is not quite typical of the PCA (Presbyterian Church in America).
    Suffice to say, having friends on the inside there, I know too much (and have seen a lot myself from having played there on occasion) to do anything but laugh. I can say, though, that the man you see on TV and who he is off screen are two different people. It's really sad because Dr. Kennedy is really a nice guy and isn't the vitriolic, hate filled man that the tv program makes him out to be.
     
  7. JustAsking

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    Yes, these megachurch con men have not only made an industry out of gay bashing, but also preaching this fake good news that if you live a clean and good life, God will reward you with great material success. In fact this is Osteen's major message, isn't it?

    The other messages seems to replace Christianity with a kind of Christian Nationalism. I am not sure which one is the bigger anathema.

    That these con-men are popular just shows how many people have never heard of the New Testament.

    No, this is all snake oil, lies, and spiritual extortion.

    On a related note, has anyone seen the movie, Jesus Camp?
     
  8. madame_zora

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    Haha, the laziness of human beings. it's so much easier to believe you can earn your way into heaven by acts than to actually have to follow the spiritual path Jesus started. If we completely ignore the words of Jesus, we can translate the OT (a book of fables and prose) as a document of hate, in the hands of readers who don't understand Jewish culture. Most people would rather part with their money that read a few books.

    It's even hard for me to tell where one ends and the other begins anymore.

    And how easily led so many people really are. I'd bet dollars to donuts that these money-making scams are mostly funded by the poorly educated- grammas sending in their SS money.

    No, I haven't, but I'll google it. I have to say, I am consistantly impressed with these shows, from a sales perspective. They have all the best techniques of repitition, fear, take-away, trinkets sold for too much money to buy a feeling of belongingness and love from on high. I never was able to bridge the gap into selling intangibles, other than mortgages- and that was in direct relation to an extremely tangible product.

    "Selling sin, selling God- the numbers look the same on their credit cards."




    Monty, thanks for the background info from the "inside". It is so sad to see what a terrible bunch of steps we have taken backward.
     
  9. DC_DEEP

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    That could very well be the scariest part of your post, Monty. I would even be able to accept it, if it were the other way around - vitriolic in person, but preaching a loving message.

    When he turns it the other way, it shows that not only does he not really believe what he is conning his sheep into believing, but he is just pandering for highest dollars at the expense of a segment of the population against whom he has no REAL issue. It's so sick.
     
  10. prepstudinsc

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    Let me put it to you this way...
    The ones who preach against something the loudest are the ones who have something to hide. Dr. Kennedy used to be a dance instructor before he went to seminary. Hmmmmm...


     
  11. JustAsking

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    Yes but its worse than that. Osteen's message is that good behavior and "getting right" with Jesus will make you materially wealthy in this life. I mean what kind of idiot reads the New Testament and takes away with them that the goal is to accumulate money, rather than give it away?
     
  12. Spoogesicle

    Spoogesicle New Member

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    Some lion tamers are homophobic.

    Some bank tellers are homophobic.

    Some gourmet chefs are homophobic.

    Some people are homophobic, and some people will always be that way.

    I don't think the proclamation of Christianity has anything to do with it. Anyone who has an irrational dislike can twist a Biblical passage to support his viewpoint. People have been doing so for centuries.
     
  13. Freddie53

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    Homophobia and Chrstianity. I can't see how the two words can be uised together but some, primarily the fundies do it on a regular basis.

    The doctrine being talked about is referred by many as "prosperity gospel." It has been around in some shape or form since time began. Yet, all research into history of any religion including Judaism and Christianity show that it is a myth preached to the poor who give all that have to these false preachers.

    The whole concept sounds great except it is a complete falsehood. According to one person who believes in this crap, a person finds the right Scripture and quotes it and then makes his request to God and presto, the person gets their wish. So if you want a Lincoln Town Car all you have to do is find that right Scripture verse. This is essential according to those whom I have talked to, that is find that right verse. Quote it and pray away.

    It worked for Jesus. As you recall Jesus prayed to God in the Garden that this cup, beiing crucified, pass from me. Damn, guess Jesus messed up and didn't quote the right verse. So to the cross Jesus went.

    It worked for the apostles too. Paul proclaimed he was an apostle. And was he rewarded greatly. From all accounts he was breakfast for some lions one day.

    It worked for Peter too. He must have goofed up on his verse too. Peter was crucified upside down. Prosperity gospel at work.

    Apparenty all the apostles except John just didn't study the Bible enough because they all suffered violent deaths for practicing their faith.

    Now John got it right. He got to live on an island in splendid luxury. Oh no, that's not right. He was banished and exiled to this island and allowed to live out his years in exilie and poverty. He missed Sunday School the day that his right verse was taught.

    And all those Christians in the Sudan right now being slaughered. I bet they believe in proserity gospel.

    Truth is prosperity gospel is the biggest ship full of bull shit every put out to sea. Any fifth grader who can read can figure out that it is full of holes.

    As to the Madame's request. I haven't seen any "Christians" jumping at the bit to announce they are homophobic.

    Not a chance. They don't have the balls to come here and state it in print. For one reason, most of them won't admit that they visit this place.

    But don't worry. It's not their words that bother me. It is their making some teen boy or girl feel so bad about themselves that they commit suicide. No one knows the real reason as the teen won't even in death note tell why the suicide took place.

    It is their kicking their own children out of thier house and their churches leaving them homeless. That's what pisses me off.

    It is their refusing to rent their apartments to gay or lesbians all in the name of Jesus that fucks up some already abused gay or lesbian whose parents won't talk to them and now they have no place to sleep at night.

    And all of this horseshit in the name of Jesus. The Jesus I know and the Jesus they know ain't the same Jesus.

    Jesus never condemned any sexual act and had several opportunities to do so. Jesus spoke to the Samarians when in that day some authorities would ahve arrrested Jesus for talking to a Samaritan. The Jews hated the Samaritans with a deep deep passion in those days.

    Jesus taught and practiced love and compassion. Yeah, these so-called Christians know what Jesus taught and preached. That is why most of them aren't going to come here and say "I am a Christian and I am homophobic."

    I have heard some of the homophobic Christians preach that all homos will burn in hell for being gay. All of them. and burn forever in the hottest part of hell too. Homosexuality is not only a sin to them. It is totally unforgivable, unlike regular sin which is forgivable.

    Haven't you read John 3:16. "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotton son that whosoever believeth, except gays, should not perish but have everlasting life."

    And then this Scripture. Hear the good news! Christ came into this world to rescue sinners. In the name of Jesus your sins, except gay ones, are forgiven.

    My oh my what false doctrines aboud in the church. And the words that Jesus did not say that are put into his mouth.

    These stupid people really believe that certain "sins" are forgivable and certain "sins" are not. In the first place they don't know the definition of sin. Second, who in the hell gave them the right to decide which sins were forgivable and which ones are not?

    As for my church, we had a new member join Sunday. When I first invited him, he asked if it would be OK to attend the church. I assured him it would. His partner is already a member of the church, but wasn't attending at the time. This new member who is in a known committed homosexual rrelationship, was warmly welcomed into our church. I know of no negative comment or feelings from any church member. These two guys are commited to each other and love each other. They are children of God who loves them more than any human can. And they have already appointed to committees.

    So let the fundie churches in town bitch because we have welcomed a gay couple into our church. They can bitch until hell freezes over. It won't matter. God is in charge, not them. And both of these men are children of God.

    I know Freddie has a reputation for being very kind and non judgmental. Bur I have to work at it. My gut reaction is to say that these fundies who have so much hate in their heart will go to hell in a handbasket.

    But I don't believe in a literal Dante's hell. And I know that to wish something like that would make me one of them.

    I am not going to let their stupidity change who I am. if I did, they would win. And there is not a snowball's chance in hell that is going to happen.

    *Sweet Freddie you can come back into the room now.*:smile:
     
  14. Dude

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    Wow Freddie, impressive post.

    As for the prosperity gospel - narrrrrg! How on Earth do they get away with that!?
     
  15. JustAsking

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    Freddie,
    Don't forget 6 million Jews during the Holocaust. They must not have found the right verses, either.

    Also, the victims of the Tsunami a few years ago. Somehow they must have picked the wrong verse.

    Every single person above the floors that the planes hit in the WTC on 9/11. Somehow everyone above those floors picked the wrong verses and the ones below picked the right ones.

    Jesus' tips on personal wealth:
    "Give away all your money and follow me."

    "Its harder for a rich man to get to heaven than to pass a camel through the eye of a needle."

    Jesus on gainful employment:
    "Drop your nets and follow me."

    The Gospel Prosperity is snake oil.
     
  16. GoneA

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    I had a long, semi-well thought out response to this thread; however, after seeing this comment, let me just say:
    LMAO!!! :laugh2:
     
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