One More Hmm...

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Gillette, Oct 30, 2006.

  1. Gillette

    Gold Member

    Apr 2, 2006
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    Halifax (NS, CA)
    Found this during a book search of Not what I was looking for but worth perusing. Considering all the debates round this subject I thought I'd submit this. For the record, I have not read this book. The comment below I found to be interesting enough to share. Make of it what you will.

    The author, Jerry Wheatley, posted this comment on the book's page.


    4:14 PM PDT, October 5, 2006
    The following is an interesting way to understand religion. Let's push the issue. Let's suppose there is, a Judgment Day and people are afforded the opportunity to learn the truth about faith and belief. Picture two defendants standing before the Judge: one is a theist; one is an agnostic.

    The Judge says: "Only truth is allowed in Judgment Day Court. Truth can contradict a lie; a lie can't contradict the truth. In heaven, one's security is derived from knowing truth. Lies must be gotten out of the way to get to the truth. Let's begin."

    The Theist steps to the bench and says he is a 'Christian' and a preacher. He says he personally knows Christ and worships God.

    The Judge says, "Prove it! If you can't prove it, then it is a lie you know Christ or worship God. If you personally know Christ, I have a question for himÂ…"

    Theist, "But the New Testament and the prophets say..."

    Judge, "Testimony doesn't establish truth. The so-called prophets, including Jesus, didn't represent God because they didn't know the truth of what they stated. You, like those before you, confuse imagination with reality. A real man of God knows the truth of what he states. You can't prove God is. It is neither Christ, nor God you worship. God is defined by reality. The real Christ characterizes reality by the truth representing it. One is Christ-like, or worships him, only if one seriously seeks truth. Theist, you are guilty of lying. Liars are not welcomed here."

    The Judge adds, "No one deceived you theists. You deceived yourselves. No one forced you to accept a statement's truth on faith. You could have faced reality and humbly admitted you didn't know the truth about ideas you could not prove. You failed to understand human behavior. Your mind didn't develop by seeking truth. Faking physical exercise doesn't develop the body. Pretending to seek truth by belief doesn't develop the mind. Your mind is your spirit. You are spiritually undeveloped."

    The Agnostic steps forward and says, "Where am I?"

    Judge, "You are in Judgment Day Court. Agnostic, you've admitted not knowing whether there is a God."

    Agnostic: "That is correct, I do not know how to prove it one way or the other."

    Judge: "Finally, an honest man! Admitting ignorance is the first step to seeking truth. Welcome."


    The Judge addresses the courtroom. "So-called Christians and other theists share a common characteristic. They succumbed to cultural brainwashing. Each religious group asserts it is everyone except they who are brainwashed. Religious followers deny they were brainwashed, instead of proving their declarations. Denial is the primary characteristic of brainwashing.

    "Theists believe they seek truth and worship God, but it is just an act. Believers perform rituals such as praying and giving blessings. The one thing they don't do, is seek truth. They become confused and afraid when facing unfamiliar ideas. Therefore, we are not surprised they fear also the truth.

    "Believers worship themselves. Their life focuses on what they believe. They brazenly decide in their own mind what is true or right instead of learning from reality. They are self-righteous."

    The Judge adds, "The theists didn't learn there is a crucial difference between a statement being true and whether they know it is true. This explains why faith and ignorance underlies world conflict. Here, in heaven, we know God is represented by knowledge or truth. We know a real Christian worships God by seeking truth represented by reality. Here, we are aware faiths are false religions. We acknowledge science is the one true religion. No one needs to fight and die for truth. It is what reality says it is. I, the Judge, am the real Christ. At the Second Coming, I will be accepted as the Christ only if science supports my pronouncements. The final purpose of science is to enable me to completely explain reality and God. It also makes it possible for me to prove who I am."

    The Judge summarizes: "Ignorance masquerades as knowledge. Ignorant people don't understand how they deceive themselves by faith. It is difficult to recognize a lie unless one knows the truth. Accepting statement truth on faith is easy: seeking truth by way of reality is difficult. On earth, it is the same old problem. The problem is not what people believe: the problem is that they believe! Court adjourned!"
  2. Love-it

    Gold Member

    Sep 7, 2005
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    Northern California
    Thank you for posting an interesting viewpoint on reality and "faith", I wish you well in the eruptions that will ensue on a site that is purportedly open minded.
  3. Lordpendragon

    Gold Member

    Jul 5, 2004
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    Come judgment day - I will just have to bend over and take what's coming. :eek:
  4. Gisella

    Gold Member

    Mar 18, 2006
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    I think his approach is very elitist...the way his learn to look for answers and his approach of choice doing it. In those issues I like to see where the person is comming from when they start to dismiss at least 1/2 of population of people in this world that have their particular faiths and gods, he use christians as exemple but he try to dismiss 'everyone', i think...and than in my view he is no different of those he looks 'down'...Jerry may 'trust' and have his gods in many disciplines, where he relly on...but in my mind soooo far away ignorant from his much knowlegdes in science, philosophy and many other things is not only because he knows much and take from works from others who knew much he and others have all the answers. And to me everybody is equal when we face the inevitable death...:tongue: than we just die and that is it...the unknow trully unknow and our personal surprises in what we will find in the 'other side' when we get there...nothing, something, many things etc...than as fun we went through life making our own discoveries and etc we can use them only in this life reality not out of a body and in another 'dimension' or non existence. For those that cease to exist there is no more brains to think to others that are in other place are then spiritual in some way...

    Than Jerry is elitist to me to think he can explain everything by philosophy, science and others disciplines...and dismiss peoples of diferent faiths and beliefs having 'everything' explained by their gods,books, papers of their many disciplines...

    "From the Author
    If we are doomed to die, why is there life at all? What is the meaning to life? Religion did not supply a satisfactory answer. Holy books are constituted of "words on paper." Ideas do not necessarily represent reality. Words and ideas are different from what they represent!

    There should be a way to scientifically determine whether life has meaning beyond mere existence. The only way to do this is to map the structure of reality. This is science. Ideas are verified when evidence "in reality" corroborates statement truth.
    Understanding the structure of reality was a step by step process. It is similar to a jigsaw puzzle when one has not seen the finished picture. The puzzle is completed only when every piece finds its place. Each piece informs how it fits with other pieces. Pieces mesh into sections. Sections join to show the whole picture.
    The analogy comes full circle by substituting scientific facts for puzzle pieces. Pieces represent evidential facts. Scientific understanding relates one fact to others. Puzzle sections correspond to higher-level concepts and principles of physics.
    Principles enabled a systematic arranging of the diagrams into a hierarchy to represent what physics is all about -- the structure of reality. The structure defines how everything interrelates. But, it did not immediately answer all questions. Big questions of philosophy and science are answerable only when the structure of reality is reexamined through the lens of other disciplines. Multidisciplinary research produced a categorical understanding of everything. "
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