One step closer to banning abortion?

[gwr1349]

Chuck 64,

I agree with you it will force some girls underground for an abortion. However My hope is that many babies will have a chance to live because of the new law. You will never make everyone happy and I will be the first to admit this. I just want to give the baby a chance to live. But that is what freedom is all about, free choice. I just hope the choice is Life.

 

[madame_zora]

Freedom of choice? Are you absolutely insane? I mean, I really need to know before I take your post seriously.

Hmm, let's do a quick review. MEN have stuff that shoots out the head of their penises that CAUSE pregnancy, yet they can have sex anywhere and with anyone they choose and never have to face life-or-death consequences. I however, am a (unfortunately still) fertile woman, so anytime I have sex, it is with the constant knowledge that I could become pregnant. Do YOU see a problem here? And please, don't give me philosophical issues about how it ought to be, let's just deal with what IS.

When any man who gets a girl prenant by mistake has to automatically get a vasectomy, then I'll forfeit the right to abortion. That means rapists, pedophiles, and nice guys who's protection didn't work- all the same. Any takers? Please hold YOURSELF to the same standards you hold women to, or stop talking.

Oh, this is my opinion as a person, NOT as a moderator so don't give me that crap either.

 

[Shelby]

MZ, I believe we've been down this road before but for the benefit of the noobs I want to add that not only should abortions stay legal, if a female allows (or tricks) a male into fertizing her egg and he doesn't want to be a daddy, he should only be responsible for paying for half of the cost of the procedure. If the female decides to carry to term, he's off the hook.

As it is, women (legally) hold all the trump cards when it comes to this.

 

[Chuck64]

Chuck 64,

I agree with you it will force some girls underground for an abortion. However My hope is that many babies will have a chance to live because of the new law. You will never make everyone happy and I will be the first to admit this. I just want to give the baby a chance to live. But that is what freedom is all about, free choice. I just hope the choice is Life.

I think I was a little too harsh. I agree with your point - as long as we continue to give women the choice. My little cousin (one of a few true joys in my life) was adopted after his parents discovered they couldn't concieve. His biological mother already had a few children (that she chose to keep) from various fathers. Because she chose to give him up for adoption, his life is infinitly better than it would have been. I think that beyond contraceptives, adoption is hands-down the best possible outcome. If I ever decide to "have" kids, I'm going to adopt.

Having said that, it's the woman's pregnancy and therefore her choice. I don't view this as a family values issue. You can't legislate family values. It's strictly a womens health issue. Do we want to provide this service to women out in the open by qualified professionals or drive it underground?

I know I'll probably get blasted by a few of the ladies here, but I wish that abortion clinics were required to provide counseling by a qualified therapist to women who get an abortion - both before and after. This is not because I think they're messed up in the head. Before, I think they should focus on making the woman realize she has options, that she has a choice, and that she's shouldn't be bullied by society or family to abort the pregnancy. After, because I know there can sometimes be strong feelings of regret and mourning.

Just my two cents.

 

[ceg1526]

I would prefer that abortions don't occur. I'd also prefer that kids (and adults) knew and understood the consequences of sex, that reliable contraception was readily available and used by both men and women, that all babies were wanted, that no children were born into poverty, and that their families and the community see fit to support and educate them to the best of their ability.

Given that my preferences have been ignored and likely will continue to be, I'll go with easily available abortions up to the quickening, which is toward the end of the first trimester.

Take care

Ceg (a condom user since 1975)

 

[dadboned39]

It just slaves me that 100 people of the state of South Dakota can determine how everyone else should dance to the same music, go to the same doctor, buy the same foreign cars, and not let a women make up her own mind between her and god what happens

this should be one subject left up to women to vote only, no men should have a say.

 

[jeff black]

Without trying to sound like an asshole....I think one of the problems with abortion is that some people (NOT ALL) use it as a method of birth control. I am all for women's rights... If you want to abort your child, it is your business. I just think that society needs to try and come up with some better sex education or something, so younger kids realize that sex is a commitment. Yes, sex feels good, but it is also important to know that having sex means risking having a child.
Or maybe we could just start spaying our children? :biggrin1:
Ceg, you beat me to it....

 

[BobLeeSwagger]

I think this is kind of premature. They almost certainly need one more conservative justice on the Supreme Court to completely overturn Roe. And there's the very real possibility that overturning it would basically leave it up to the states. In the past, he anti-abortion activists have been much more successful at whittling away at the abortion right through restrictions.

 

[D_Elijah_MorganWood]

Usually when this political drum is beaten it's by men. I cannot, nor will I ever understand what it means to be a woman, have ovaries, and be at risk for pregnancy for 30something years of my life. Crusty old male politicians should NEVER have the right to tell women what to do with their bodies. Laws will not stop abortions. We already tried that. If men got pregnant would there be abortions? Hell yes! There would be abortion clinics on every other street corner!!! Bottom line, I'm a man and I (nor any other man) has a right to tell a woman what to do with her body.

Don't judge me until you walk a mile in my shoes.

 

[Dr. Dilznick]

Freedom of choice? Are you absolutely insane? I mean, I really need to know before I take your post seriously.

Hmm, let's do a quick review. MEN have stuff that shoots out the head of their penises that CAUSE pregnancy, yet they can have sex anywhere and with anyone they choose and never have to face life-or-death consequences. I however, am a (unfortunately still) fertile woman, so anytime I have sex, it is with the constant knowledge that I could become pregnant. Do YOU see a problem here? And please, don't give me philosophical issues about how it ought to be, let's just deal with what IS.

When any man who gets a girl prenant by mistake has to automatically get a vasectomy, then I'll forfeit the right to abortion. That means rapists, pedophiles, and nice guys who's protection didn't work- all the same. Any takers? Please hold YOURSELF to the same standards you hold women to, or stop talking.

Oh, this is my opinion as a person, NOT as a moderator so don't give me that crap either.

*shakes head*

Women and their false ideas of equality. I assure you, one swift congressional action and you'll be back to scrubbing them hardwoods and fluffing the bacon bringer.

 

[brainzz_n_dong]

OK, Here's my thoughts on this.

I am against abortion. My wife and I adopted our first daughter. Her mother gave up the baby because her father would have disowned her if she kept the baby. She had the GUTS to complete the pregnancy, deliver, & nursed the baby for two days while in the hospital and then signed over the baby to my wife and I.

We had tried to have kids for ten years and had 5 major surgery's before adopting our Daughter. Our daughter is now 21 years old and graduated from the University and is going into Health and Human Services working with children. None of this could have happened if her birth mother aborted her after conception. God has a plan for every child he created with out exception. My daughter is just one example. Their are millions more.

Their are people out their waiting to adopt a baby. I hope abortion is overturned by the court.

Well said GWR. It'd be a great accomplishment if the red tape and hoops-to-jump-through surrounding adoption could be streamlined so that more children like your daughter could find loving homes.

 

[AlteredEgo]

I couldn't have an abortion myself, I don't think. I think I would be permanently broken, for me, it might even be worse than a rape. However, the God that created us all, endowed us with free will, and I just don't see where people (most of whom don't even have a uterus) can impose their will upon the lives of others in the name of Christianity. I gully support a woman's right to choose. I choose life, but I don't dare judge a woman who makes the difficult deceision to abort. How dare anyone judge such a woman? How dare they?

A fetus is little more than a life-threatening parasite, right up to the moment of birth. Not satisfied to simply absorb nutrients via the umbilical cord, a fetus leeches minerals (mainly calcium) directly from the infected...I mean, expectant mother's bones. After birth, when removing the newborn baby from the umbilical cord, clamps must be used to ensure that neither mother nor child bleed to death.

Short of abstinence (yeah, right) there is no way to be 100% sure of not getting preggers from intercourse. A rape victim has had her body violently violated, and should not be forced to have a daily reminder for 9 months, stretch marks, scars, altered physique, hemeroids, diabetes, PPDS or the myriad other possible "side effects" of full term pregnancy.

Abortion is a complicated decision, to be made by women, and in most cases the men who would become fathers, and by these people alone. The government has lost it's mind.

Some recent things please me. For instance, it has become easier than ever to simply give away an unwanted baby. You could take the poor thing to any police station, fire department, or hospital. It always made me so sad to read about dead (or nearly so) babies in dumpsters and alley-ways, and toilet bowls.

So many people testify about adoption. The fact is, most American families looking to adopt a newborn are waiting for a white baby. Women of color are not always quick to find someone who wants to adopt their child right away, and as the unwanted baby gets older in the system, the poor thing also gets more unwanted, and more damaged. People in America are so desperate for white babies that they are willing to leave the country to go get one because waiting lists (and the adoption process in general) are too long.

I read a blog that I agree with. The author thinks that we as women need to take a stand on this issue. If you have a womb, dont let pro-life men fuck you. Don't give them any. Here's what she has to say.

http://wicked-wish.livejournal.com/463017.html?thread=9735849

 

[naughty]

Wow.

The horrible thing about this is that I can understand everyone's point of view here. Personally, I am against abortion. Life isnt fair, there are women who are raped, become pregnant against their best attempts at contraception and for whom a pregnancy is a life threatening thing. I however think about that being who for whatever reason , if I were to become pregnant is dependant upon me for its life sustanance and protection. As a single female, at this point I have chosen celibacy .That is one thing I can do to prevent the conception of a child I am not ready to mother. I do not believe in irresponsible use of abortion as a contraceptive. My heart breaks for any woman who is forced to bear the brunt of a pregnancy that she or the father is not ready or willing to see to term. I can only make my own choices but I do not want to not do all that I can to insure that neither my life or the life of a defenseless being are challenged because of something that I could have done to prevent its conception. I know so many people who are aching to have a child .I do think that adoption is a courageous choice for a mother of an unplanned birth.

Naughty

 

[Chuck64]

Not to hijack the thread, but I have an opinion question to ask...

Do you think some women, who would otherwise choose adoption, decide to have an abortion because they fear becoming emotionally attached to the child during the pregnancy and will be unable to give it up?

 

[Dr. Dilznick]

Freedom of choice? Are you absolutely insane? I mean, I really need to know before I take your post seriously.

Hmm, let's do a quick review. MEN have stuff that shoots out the head of their penises that CAUSE pregnancy, yet they can have sex anywhere and with anyone they choose and never have to face life-or-death consequences. I however, am a (unfortunately still) fertile woman, so anytime I have sex, it is with the constant knowledge that I could become pregnant. Do YOU see a problem here? And please, don't give me philosophical issues about how it ought to be, let's just deal with what IS.

When any man who gets a girl prenant by mistake has to automatically get a vasectomy, then I'll forfeit the right to abortion. That means rapists, pedophiles, and nice guys who's protection didn't work- all the same. Any takers? Please hold YOURSELF to the same standards you hold women to, or stop talking.

You say it as if men are the only ones making the decision.

 

[AlteredEgo]

Wow.

The horrible thing about this is that I can understand everyone's point of view here. Personally, I am against abortion. Life isnt fair, there are women who are raped, become pregnant against their best attempts at contraception and for whom a pregnancy is a life threatening thing. I however think about that being who for whatever reason , if I were to become pregnant is dependant upon me for its life sustanance and protection. As a single female, at this point I have chosen celibacy .That is one thing I can do to prevent the conception of a child I am not ready to mother. I do not believe in irresponsible use of abortion as a contraceptive. My heart breaks for any woman who is forced to bear the brunt of a pregnancy that she or the father is not ready or willing to see to term. I can only make my own choices but I do not want to not do all that I can to insure that neither my life or the life of a defenseless being are challenged because of something that I could have done to prevent its conception. I know so many people who are aching to have a child .I do think that adoption is a courageous choice for a mother of an unplanned birth.

Naughty

And I think that's wonderful. For you. I have chosen to take "the pill" and use condoms. In the past, I have taken the morning after pill (Also known as PLan B, it prevents an unwanted pregnancy, up to three days after the incident, but does not terminate an existing pregnancy). If my protection isn't good enough, I'll be someone's mother, and my dreams will be (hopefully temporarily) deferred. That's my choice.

But I will not stand for a minute to have someone else's choices dictated to them. What's next? I have to give up my choice to not be brainwashed by the media and start watching television again? You know. So I can hear all of Big Brother's important announcements and reminders. I start receiving all of my mail only after it has been opened and edited for my protection? I have to drink water that's been fortified by flouride, and cannot choose an alternative? I have to eat iodized salt, even though iodide encourages carcinomic tumors in my family members? Will I soon be unable to get my birth control pills and condoms? Will I be forced to marry any man who impregnates me, even if I have since decided he wouldn't make such a great match after all? Will divorce be illegal? What? What decisions to I get to make for myself? Do I still get to be a vegetarian? Do I go to a concentration camp for blacks and fat people?

You and I have chosen life. I'm so thankful that I have an alternative, even though, I have chosen never to have an abortion myself.

 

[naughty]

CHuck,

I think a lot of things go into a woman's decision. They are as myriad as the women themselves. As Jana and Bronx stated women are the ones who bear the brunt. THey carry the visible signs of pregnancy, and unfortunately when blame is handed out quite often they end up taking the lion's share of the blame. Yes, there are women who use children to try to cement a relationship , just like there are men who say they love women to get in their panties. But in both cases these are people who are using illegitimate means to fill real needs in their lives.But a child should never be the pawn in this game.
I think there are women who get abortions because they are not ready to be mothers, they can not afford to be mothers, they are pressured by family and the father of the child, the pregnancy was the result of rape, their own health is in danger, they were the victim of incest. Perhaps even women who as you say would rather never view the child as another human being so they abort it before it becomes real to them. Who knows . I just know that any woman regardless of her choice deserves compassion because NO one can say anything until they have walked a mile in another's shoes.

naughty

 

[Chuck64]

Naughty - Just so we're clear... Politically, I'm 100% pro-choice. Personally, I'm thankful I'll never put anyone in a position to make that choice. Like a lot of other people, I'm just trying to understand it from a real point of view.

As for Bronx's views on adopting a minority child, I don't know. I personally don't have an issue with it, but it's something my future partner and I will have to discuss. It's going to be difficult enough for the child to have gay parents - and society will make it infinitly more difficult on us as gay parents. Now throw in all of society's "interracial family" crap on top of that. I don't know if it's fair to the child to expect them to be that strong.

 

[ceg1526]

To add some information/fuel to the fire:

Abortion Statistics - World

• In 54 countries (61% of the world population) abortions are legal.
• In 97 countries (39% of the world population) abortions are illegal.
• There are approximately 46 million abortions conducted eacy year, 20 million obtained illegally.
• There are approximately 126,000 abortions conducted each day.

Abortion Statistics - U.S.

• Approximately 1,370,000 abortions occur annually in the U.S.
• 88% of abortions occur during the first 6 to 12 weeks of pregnancy.
• 60% of abortions are performed on women who already have one or more children.
• 47% of abortions are performed on women who have already had one or more abortions.
• 43% of women will have had at least one abortion by the time they are 45 years old (this statistic includes miscarriages in the term "abortion").

Abortion Statistics - Demographics

• Age - The majority of women getting an abortion are young. 52% are younger than 25 years old and 19% are teenagers. The abortion rate is highest for those women aged 18 to 19 (56 per 1,000 in 1992.)
• Marriage - 51% of women who are unmarried when they become pregnant will receive an abortion. Unmarried women are 6 times more likely than married women to have an abortion. 67% of abortions are from women who have never been married.
• Race - 63% of abortion patients are white, however, black women are more than 3 times as likely to have an abortion, and Hispanic women are 2.5 times as likely.
• Religion - 43% of women getting an abortion claimed they were Protestant, while 27% claimed they were Catholic.

Abortion Statistics - Decisions to Have an Abortion (U.S.)

• 25.5% of women deciding to have an abortion want to postpone childbearing.
• 21.3% of women cannot afford a baby.
• 14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not want a child.
• 12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to the pregnancy.)
• 10.8% of women feel a child will disrupt their education or career.
• 7.9% of women want no (more) children.
• 3.3% of women have an abortion due to a risk to fetal health.
• 2.8% of women have an abortion due to a risk to maternal health.

Abortion Statistics - Using Contraception (U.S.)

• 54% of women having an abortion said they used some form of contraception during the month they became pregnant.
• 90% of women who are at risk for unplanned pregnancies are using contraception
• 8% of women having an abortion say they have never used contraception.
• It is possible that up to 43% of the decline in abortion from 1994-2000 can be attributed to using emergency contraception.

Abortion Statistics - Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice

• According to a USA Today, CNN Gallup Poll in May, 1999 - 16% of Americans believe abortion should be legal for any reason at any time during pregnancy and 55% of American believe abortion should be legal only to save the life of the mother or in cases of rape or incest.
• According to a Gallup Poll in January, 2001 - People who considered themselves to be pro-life rose from 33% to 43% in the past 5 years, and people who considered themselves to be pro-choice declined from 56% to 48%.

Take care

Ceg

 

[Shelby]

More fun to come here and here.


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