One step closer to banning abortion?

madame_zora

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Shelby said:
More fun to come here and here.




We've discussed this before, but I absolutely agree with you on this. Men SHOULD have the same rights as women. If they do no want to be fathers, the woman should make her decision on whether she will keep the baby and raise it ALONE, without the financial aid of the man. Good luck getting an audience for that one though, I don't see it happening, sadly.
 

D_Barbi_Queue

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That's a hard decision. What if the mother really wants the baby but also needs the support of the father? I think he should be held responsible since they were both there at conception.
 

GoneA

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BronxBombshell said:
So many people testify about adoption. The fact is, most American families looking to adopt a newborn are waiting for a white baby. Women of color are not always quick to find someone who wants to adopt their child right away, and as the unwanted baby gets older in the system, the poor thing also gets more unwanted, and more damaged. People in America are so desperate for white babies that they are willing to leave the country to go get one because waiting lists (and the adoption process in general) are too long.

that's very a interesting reality you've elucidated, and it triggered a memory about something i was told a while ago. i once had a Black woman - a co-worker - tell me that if she gave her child up for adoption she wouldn’t want a White family to be on the receiving end. to put it briefly, she said a white family wouldn’t be able to rear her child “the proper way.” i really don’t know what to think about that – i just know i think it’s an interesting concept, altogether.
 

Dr. Dilznick

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TexAssgirl said:
That's a hard decision. What if the mother really wants the baby but also needs the support of the father? I think he should be held responsible since they were both there at conception.
The Dilz is black. I'm sure he'll find a way to squander hundreds of thousands of dollars while leaving his illegitimate children tugging for table scraps. It's only natural.




:kidding:

FRET NOT LADIES. I WILL FEED AND CLOTHE YOUR ILLEGITIMATE YOUTH.
 

Chuck64

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TexAssgirl said:
That's a hard decision. What if the mother really wants the baby but also needs the support of the father? I think he should be held responsible since they were both there at conception.

The whole point is that the mother was there at conception and still has a choice after the fact. The father should have the same rights - to decide whether or not to be a parent during a set time period of the pregnancy. If you don't believe in abortion, don't get one. You still have the option to put the baby up for adoption.

If the biological father chooses not to be a dad (emotionally or financially), he should be responsible for 1/2 of costs of the prenatal care, delivery, and adoption or the abortion. Nothing more. That's the absolute most he required the woman to endure when they both chose to have sex. Beyond that, it's all her decision.
 

D_Barbi_Queue

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Chuck64 said:
The whole point is that the mother was there at conception and still has a choice after the fact. The father should have the same rights - to decide whether or not to be a parent during a set time period of the pregnancy. If you don't believe in abortion, don't get one. You still have the option to put the baby up for adoption.

If the biological father chooses not to be a dad (emotionally or financially), he should be responsible for 1/2 of costs of the prenatal care, delivery, and adoption or the abortion. Nothing more. That's the absolute most he required the woman to endure when they both chose to have sex. Beyond that, it's all her decision.

I can see what you are saying but then that lets a lot of guys get off easy. Say a guy gets a girl pregnant, decides he doesn't want to be a father and then he gets to walk away freely. It's not fair to the girl, or the child. And giving up for adoption (as easy as it may sound) is a very emotionally difficult task. So then I suppose you could offer abortion as an alternative, but there are plenty of people out there that are against that as well. I am, as a personal choice, but not a lawful choice. So a girl who is against abortion and can't bare the thought of giving up her baby then would have the sole responsibility of raising that child if the father wants nothing to do with it....even though he was there at the time of conception and the child is half his.
 

Dr. Dilznick

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There also has to be some kind of child support trust account system where the mother can't spend the child support money on clothes and jewelry for her and her girl friends. I've seen this happen way too many times.
 

Chuck64

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I'm probably beating a dead horse here, but...

It's not the man's fault that the woman is emotionally unable to do the responsible thing and terminate or give up a baby she's not able to provide for. I know that's harsh, but so is having 18 years of your life held for ransom by a child support judgement.
 

AlteredEgo

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One of the guys I'm sleeping with is such an asshole. (So fucking good in bed though.) When we first talked about the possible consequences of getting it on casually, he made his position plain. "I will pay for you to have an abortion." I laughed, because he is actually a brilliant theologian. I know our unmarried sex is highly hypocritical (no one is perfect) so eventually I was able to realize that he was not joking. I reminded him that that kind of abortion is unethical, murderous, and and abomination. (I'm not judging others, but I believe this to be true.) He said I would have to bear the mark of that sin. What an asshole. LOL You'd have to know us both to understand our friendship and why I don't knock his teeth in on a regular basis. Anyway. I told him that was impossible. I told him, "Just like your exisiting baby-mamas must have said to you, if you get me pregnant, you will be a daddy. Again." He said, "Well, if you want to go get an abortion, we'll go together (unless I have work that day) and I'll take care of it. If you want to keep it, I suggest you put it up." "Our baby would be a dark-skinnned hispanic. 'Aint no way in hell I'd put a black, puerto rican up for adoption. Are you mad?" He replied, "Well if you have my baby, and you decide to keep it in your house, you will have to go to court like the other two. And there's only so much the judge is going to take from me. There's a limit, and I'm getting real close to it. Judge'll just divide that by three. My other two sons will just get less." I told him not to worry. I really didn't like the way he fathered his sons, and I'd just as soon let the good fathers in my life be the emotional support for my baby. And I looked at his brand new, diamond encrusted watch, his ruby ring, thought about his motorcycles and pimped out rx7 (which did not have enough seats to carry both of his kids at once) and told him, "But you could buy our groceries from time to time. The judge will see to that. But the mood was killed for the time being. We kissed, and fell asleep spooning and holding hands. No booty that night. So we never did see eye to eye on the issue. But we both know how it will play out if we become statistics.

Now he has three illegitimate sons he pretends not to love. And he knows, his days with me are numbered. How many times can we have sex before we stop being on the 99.9% side, and end up on the .1% side? Not many more. It's been over two years since the first time. Plus, I'd rather we remained friends. (He really is pretty good at being friends. Much better than he is at parenting.) And he really dislikes the mothers of his beautiful (but undersized) children.
 

SR_search4bp

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The abortion topic in the US is running nuts...

How can it be possible that the government or the society decides over MY body? Only I can decide whether I want to give birth to a child or not. No one else. And everyone who has another opinion is simply SICK in his head!

The hilarious detail I heard is that even a rapist should have parental rights on a child he "created" while raping a woman... come on, folks, get a grip!

SICK :mad: SICK :mad: SICK :mad:
 

hung9mike

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Chuck64 said:
As for Bronx's views on adopting a minority child, I don't know. I personally don't have an issue with it, but it's something my future partner and I will have to discuss.
I don't mean to change the direction of this thread, but Chuck64 said something that caught my eye. I can't adopt in Florida, it's illegal for me to do so according to Florida Statute 63.042 Section 3. Is adoption by homosexuals legal/permitted in Texas?
 

Chuck64

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hung9mike said:
I don't mean to change the direction of this thread, but Chuck64 said something that caught my eye. I can't adopt in Florida, it's illegal for me to do so according to Florida Statute 63.042 Section 3. Is adoption by homosexuals legal/permitted in Texas?

Don't know. Don't care, but I'm guessing "no." I won't be here for more than another 6 months.

If we decide to adopt, I'll gladly move to a state or country where it is legal.
 

D_Barbi_Queue

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I assume it's legal here in NY. I saw two gay guys bringing their baby into my pediatrician's office a few months ago. Of course, I suppose you could assume too that they paid someone to be a surragate mother though.
 

BobLeeSwagger

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madame_zora said:
We've discussed this before, but I absolutely agree with you on this. Men SHOULD have the same rights as women. If they do no want to be fathers, the woman should make her decision on whether she will keep the baby and raise it ALONE, without the financial aid of the man. Good luck getting an audience for that one though, I don't see it happening, sadly.

I would be on board with this, except that the one who really gets screwed is the child. If it were just a matter of a man and a woman making a mistake, then yeah, either one could walk away from it.
 

ceg1526

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I'm bringing this up from the archives because I think it's important, and I didn't want to start a new thread. I believe President Fire Thunder should be sainted.

South Dakota Indian leader wants to build tribal abortion clinic

In South Dakota, where lawmakers last month passed a near-total ban on abortion, the leader of one of the state's American Indian tribes is proposing to circumvent the legislation by establishing an abortion clinic on an Indian reservation -- within reach of women who need the service, but outside the reach of the strict new law.

Cecelia Fire Thunder, a former nurse who is the first female president in the history of the Oglala Sioux Tribe, said it was "an eye-opener" when legislators approved a law that prohibits abortion in nearly all cases -- even when the pregnancy results from rape or incest. The only exception is to save the woman's life.

"An Indian reservation is a sovereign nation, and we're going to take it as far as we can to exercise our sovereignty," said Fire Thunder, whose Pine Ridge Reservation encompasses 2.7 million acres in southwestern South Dakota. "As Indian women, we fight many battles. This is just another battle we have to fight."

Because federally recognized American Indian tribes are not, in many cases, required to abide by state law, a clinic could operate lawfully at Pine Ridge even with a ban in place, said South Dakota Attorney General Larry Long. Tribes are, in many respects, treated as foreign nations.

Fire Thunder is one of 15 co-chairs of the South Dakota Campaign for Healthy Families, which formed last week with the goal of putting the abortion ban to voters.

The 59-year-old tribal leader, who said she has counseled rape victims, said it was legislators' insistence on prohibiting abortions for women who have become pregnant as the result of rape that drew her to speak out and to propose building "a Planned Parenthood-type clinic" on tribal land.

She first floated the idea to an American Indian columnist in South Dakota last week. Since then, it has been fodder for the local media and national blogs. Her e-mail inbox has filled up with people supporting the idea, she said.

"People need to open up their eyes in this country. Women are being raped at a tremendously high rate in this nation," she said. "In a perfect world, you will report the rape, the police will respond, they will take you to the emergency room. You will tell your story, you will get emergency contraception. We don't live in a perfect world. In rural America, that does not happen."

For now, it remains legal to get an abortion in South Dakota. About 800 a year are performed at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, where doctors fly in once or twice a week from Minnesota, according to Marta Coursey, spokeswoman for Planned Parenthood Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota. It is the only abortion clinic in the state.

The state ban takes effect July 1. Meanwhile, it faces hurdles. The South Dakota Campaign for Healthy Families last weekend began a drive to collect the 16,728 signatures needed to place a referendum on the law on the November ballot -- and gathered nearly 1,100 in a matter of days, said Nathan Peterson, the campaign's petition director. If the group gets the required signatures, the law would be on hold until the fall.

Should that fail, a lawsuit would be inevitable, said Coursey. Many expect a judge would stay the law indefinitely as the case works its way through the courts.
 

Webster

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TexAssgirl said:
That's a hard decision. What if the mother really wants the baby but also needs the support of the father? I think he should be held responsible since they were both there at conception.
________________________________
Why should the father be forced to give up at least half his income for at least the next 18 years because of natural motherly instincts, when both parents (I'm thinking young or poor people) should know that having the baby would be a financial disaster (the father most certainly is either unemployed or has a low paying job) and a poor life choice for the baby who will probably never get the kind of upbringing it deserves.

It takes two to tango (sperm AND egg). I firmly believe that a father should have a say in whether or not there will be an abortion. If either parent says no to abortion, they should have sole responsibility for what happens next (raising the child or adoption).

Almost every single time you see a story about poor people, there in the back ground is a bunch of kids. Only people who can afford kids should have them.

Politicians and judges who rail against abortion rights should be forced to pay into a fund for the care, feeding, and education of all the children that would otherwise have been aborted.
 

rob_just_rob

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Ugh.

One of the things that always impresses me with the anti-choice lobby is how they insist that every fetus is a child, and a child's life is sacrosanct, etc. And then, once the baby is born, they conveniently forget about it. You never see the social conservatives lobbying for more support for unwed mothers, a bigger family allowance, daycare, etc. All this does is condemn a lot of babies (and their mothers) to the underclass.

FYI, South Dakota has one of the lowest levels of state-sponsored social assistance in the USA. So forget about those fetus-loving Dakotans taking care of the fetus once it actually becomes a child...

Re: Father's say in abortion - there's a gordian knot if there ever was one. :eek:
 

AlteredEgo

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Webster said:
________________________________
Why should the father be forced to give up at least half his income for at least the next 18 years because of natural motherly instincts, when both parents (I'm thinking young or poor people) should know that having the baby would be a financial disaster (the father most certainly is either unemployed or has a low paying job) and a poor life choice for the baby who will probably never get the kind of upbringing it deserves.

It takes two to tango (sperm AND egg). I firmly believe that a father should have a say in whether or not there will be an abortion. If either parent says no to abortion, the other should have sole responsibility for what happens next (raising the child or adoption).

Almost every single time you see a story about poor people, there in the back ground is a bunch of kids. Only people who can afford kids should have them.

Politicians and judges who rail against abortion rights should be forced to pay into a fund for the care, feeding, and education of all the children that would otherwise have been aborted.

Ridiculous. If everyone felt the way you do, our already overrun, under-funded beauraus of child welfare would face crisis. The fact is many babies put up for adoption do not get adopted. Take off the rose colored glasses, and smell the imperfection.
 

Webster

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BronxBombshell said:
Ridiculous. If everyone felt the way you do, our already overrun, under-funded beauraus of child welfare would face crisis. The fact is many babies put up for adoption do not get adopted. Take off the rose colored glasses, and smell the imperfection.
_______________________________
With only people with the financial means having babies, there would be little or no need for the welfare glut.
I respect your opinion.
There's no need to insult me..........

BTW, I can't understand why many women think that men should have no say in the matter.