One Step Closer to the Abominable Snowman!

jason_els

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A sample of hair from a Yeti (aka Abominable Snowman) has been sent to labs for DNA analysis. Preliminary examination concluded the hair belongs to no known species of primate or bear.

Scientists in the UK who have examined hairs claimed to belong to a yeti in India say that an initial series of tests have proved inconclusive.

Ape expert Ian Redmond says the hairs bear a "startling resemblance" to similar hairs collected by Everest conqueror Sir Edmund Hillary.

He told the BBC the Indian hairs are "potentially very exciting".
After extensive microscope examinations, the hairs will now be sent to separate labs for DNA analysis.

They say that the tests on Thursday were a "process of elimination" in which the hairs from India were compared with hairs from other animals known to live in the area around the Garo hills of the north-eastern state of Meghalaya.

The little known Indian version of the legendary yeti - or abominable snow man - is an ape-like creature called mande barung - or forest man

The BBC was given the hairs by passionate yeti believer Dipu Marak, who retrieved them from a site in dense jungle after the mande barung was allegedly seen by a forester for three days in a row in 2003.

Mr Marak says the hairs may provide compelling evidence of the existence of a black and grey ape-like animal which stands about 3m (nearly 10ft) tall.

There have been repeated reports of sightings over many years by different witnesses in the West, South and East Garo hills.

Mr Marak estimates the creature weighs about 300kg (660lb) and says it is herbivorous, surviving on fruit, roots and tree bark.

Sophisticated microscopes

Preliminary test by the scientists in the UK have not so far disproved his belief.

"We now know for definite that these hairs do not belong to Asiatic black bear, they do not belong to a wild boar and they do not resemble hairs from various species of macaque monkeys. These hairs remain an enigma," said wildlife biologist and ape conservation expert Ian Redmond.

"Another thing I can confirm is that if these hairs do indeed belong to a yeti then they - like human beings - suffer from split hair ends!" he joked.

The tests were carried out at Oxford Brookes University in central England with award-winning primatologist Anna Nekaris and microscopy expert Jon Wells from the university's anthropology department.

Using some of the most sophisticated microscopes in Britain, the hairs were magnified up to 200 times and then compared with a database of other hairs provided to Mr Redmond from Oxford's Natural History Museum and the primatology department at Oxford Brookes University.

To make the results as definitive as possible, the scientists took a cast of one of the two hairs brought over from India using nail varnish.

"When the varnish dries the mould which it forms creates a much better two-dimensional image of the cuticle scale pattern than the hair itself," explained Ms Nekaris.

Disagreement

After the test were completed, Mr Redmond - who is also a senior consultant for the UN's Great Ape Survival Project - and Ms Nekaris were able to rule out the "obvious candidates" to whom the hairs might belong.

Mr Redmond said that on first glance, the hairs from India had the same cuticle pattern to hairs brought back to the UK by Sir Edmund Hillary and donated to the Natural History Museum.

Both Mr Redmond and Ms Nekaris agree there is "every chance" they could belong to an unknown species of primate.

"Only two years ago a new species of macaque was discovered in northern India. It's perfectly possible that there are pockets of jungle there where a previously undiscovered primate could exist," he said.

The two scientists also pointed out that not that long ago a huge species of ape known as gigantopithecus roamed around the area.

This species was not known about until relatively recently, Mr Redmond explained, and had no fossil record.

"It was only identified 80 years ago when Western scientists discovered teeth found in Chinese apothecaries which it was claimed were dragons' teeth to be used for medicinal purposes.

"The teeth were examined and it was revealed that in fact they belonged to a an ape-like creature estimated to be 3m tall which was named gigantopithecus," he said.

The scientists say that if the Meghalayan yeti does exist it is not impossible that it was some kind of descendant of this creature.

"It could easily be an unknown primate even if it's not a yeti," said Mr Redmond. The DNA tests should cast more light on the matter.

"We are lucky that the Indian hairs have clearly identifiable follicles containing cells so there is every chance we will be able to get even closer to the truth," Mr Redmond said. -The BBC
 

ZOS23xy

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From my reading, even if confirmed as you indicate, it will take a generation plus a few years for acceptance in casual science circles. Even if the fifties, Einstein was still considered "far out".

There isn't much DNA to be had in hair anyway. If it were roots and scalp fragments, I'd be more inclined to say it would be more conclusive.

Hair samples from big foot in the west coast regions are inconclusive for that reason. You can find the pattern on strands of hair, and identify it as to class and sometime specific species, but lacking DNA, it doesn't prove much.
 

jason_els

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From my reading, even if confirmed as you indicate, it will take a generation plus a few years for acceptance in casual science circles. Even if the fifties, Einstein was still considered "far out".

There isn't much DNA to be had in hair anyway. If it were roots and scalp fragments, I'd be more inclined to say it would be more conclusive.

Hair samples from big foot in the west coast regions are inconclusive for that reason. You can find the pattern on strands of hair, and identify it as to class and sometime specific species, but lacking DNA, it doesn't prove much.

Hair sampling though has made great strides. Hair collected in 2001 in Bhutan was submitted for DNA testing and it was concluded the hair came from an unknown animal:

British scientists on the trail of the Yeti have found some of the best evidence yet for the existence of the mythical Himalayan creature &#8212; a sample of hair that has proved impossible to identify.

Genetic tests on the hair, which was gathered from a tree in Bhutan, have failed to match its DNA to that of another animal. The findings, which have surprised sceptical researchers, raise the strong possibility that the sample belongs to an as yet undiscovered species.

In Bhutan, an expedition team was led by an "official Yeti-hunter" to a forest in the eastern part of the country, where he was convinced that an animal was at large.

"He told us that he had found evidence of the Yeti in the hollow of a cedar tree," Rob McCall, a zoologist who was part of the expedition, said.

Dr McCall's team removed strands of hair from the tree and returned to Britain to have them analysed.

Dr. Bryan Sykes, Professor of Human Genetics at the Oxford Institute of Molecular Medicine, one of the world's leading experts on DNA analysis, thoroughly examined the hair and said:

"We found some DNA in it, but we don&#8217;t know what it is. It's not a human, not a bear nor anything else we have so far been able to identify. It's a mystery and I never thought this would end in a mystery. We have never encountered DNA that we couldn&#8217;t recognize before."- The Times, April 2, 2001
 

lucky8

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That'd be pretty sweet. It's obvious to me that at some point in recent (last 500 years) history, a large unknown man/ape like creature has existed. They have been spotted all over the world, BEFORE the communications revolution. If people in America, Nepal, China, India, Mexico, Russia, and tons of other countries have all reported this BEFORE mass communication existed(which they did), personally I consider it more than just a rumor. Even if someone produced a body though, there'd still be TONS of people claiming it to be a fake. The Giant Squid was thought to me a myth too...
 

jason_els

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We may know sooner than we think. Two peace officers in Georgia claim to have shot and killed a Bigfoot. If their claim is a hoax, at least one of them could be fired. They claim they will reveal the body to media on September 1. They first claimed to have shown the body to a forensics expert but then admitted it was only the brother of one of the men who appears to have no scientific credentials. Given their adolescent videos, I'm not holding my breath but then stranger things have happened.
 
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Mr. Bungle

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I've always wondered and been skeptical of this sort of thing... however, I think of all the species that are still being discovered, both on land and in the sea - prehistoric fish that were thought to be extinct long ago, as well as the giant squid, which lucky8 mentioned and whatnot. There's also still a significant amount of land that hasn't really been explored and studied yet, which would could conceivably yield the discovery of something - an unknown species of ape perhaps? entirely possible, sure.
 

jason_els

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The best evidence yet has come from Monster Quest, a TV show that investigates cryptids. They collected evidence from a fishing cabin in remote northern Ontario that was apparently destroyed by an animal of some sort in 2005. An expert in bear behavior, biologist Lynn Rogers, was brought in and she did not believe a bear was responsible as the attack occurred when bears in the region would be hibernating. The kicker was a plank with a nail protruding from it. Whatever it was, stepped on the nail leaving blood, tissue, and hair behind. Two biologists collected the plank and tested the samples.

The hair, blood, and tissue were deteriorated, however Dr. Curt Nelson, a biologist from the University of Minnesota, was able to examine DNA from the samples. He claims that the DNA is idenitcal to human DNA save for:

The results were identical to human DNA except for 1 nucleotide poly morphisim. The nucleotide that was the difference is the same difference that is shared with chimpanzees.

The blood DNA said primate, but not quite human and not quite non-human primate. One of the base pairs is deviated. More DNA needs to be sequenced and more primers need to be designed to amplify different regions of the DNA.

They said that great apes share nearly identical DNA with man except for 35 base pair deviation. The Snell grove sample only had 1 base pair deviation. There is only a 1 in 5000 chance that this is human DNA." -Bigfoot Discusions

Dr. Nelson's findings were not shared by two other biologists who said that a chemical fixative applied to the screw during manufacture altered the DNA to such a degree that they could not extract any usable DNA for testing. Dr. Nelson claims he was able to remove the fixative from the samples to make his findings. As a result, Dr. Nelson's results remain controversial. The producer of Monster Quest has stated that he stands by the samples and that new scientific evidence from another alleged bigfoot event will be introduced in the forthcoming season of the show.
 

cockoloco

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OMG! Split hair ends!! Poor creatures!

as they didn't have enough being chased after only to prove they exist!
 

ZOS23xy

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A writer named Thom Powell in bis book titled THE LOCALS gave many examples of Bigfoot in the Southwest, including odd details not previously suspected--people had their outdoor freezers raided and deer meat was stolen. Interesting detail. A previous assumption people had was the primates were vegetarian. Kind of difficult to find good ripe beggies of a required nature in the snow. Deep sounds about right.
 

JustAsking

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I would not be surprised if we found hard evidence of a yeti-like creature. We discover new species all the time, and contrary to ZOS's comment, all it takes is some hard evidence and a new species is accepted and recorded.

A few hairs might not be enough, however, so science is right to reserve judgement until there is good evidence.

People might think that scientists scoff at things like this, but this is not the case. If you asked any biologist if they thing there are lots of undiscovered species, they would immediately say "of course there are".

Then, if you captured a yeti or found a dead one, it would go through a period of review and analysis, followed by some articles in some journals and the existence of yetis would become official in just a few months. This happens all the time to all kinds of species, including those that were thought to be extinct.

It is important to not confuse the idea that science works on facts, not innuendo or rumor. That scientists do not yet accept the existence of yetis is no different than scientists not accepting the existence of alien beings. Science is completely open to such things, providing there is some good evidence. In the meantime, it is the job of scientist to reserve judgement until that time.

The problem with most of the "mystery hair" reports is that people are operating through what is called "false dichotomy". They found hair that cannot be identified. Since it was a yeti hunter who found it, his claim is that it must be yeti hair. The false dichotomy is that the hair either belongs to a known species or it belongs to a yeti. Naturally, you can see the fallacy in that argument. There might be thousands of unknown species to which that hair could belong to.

Until someone finds a yeti, then healthy skepticism is the appropriate response, where by that I mean that yetis remain mythical until we actually find one.

Finally, I would like to say that I am rooting for the yeti. I think it would be amazing if we found one.
 

jason_els

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To get back on track here....

Bigfoot is not just a North American phenomenon. In the Himalayas, it is called the Yeti; in China, it is the Yeren; in Malaysia, it is the Orang-Pendak; in Indonesia, the Orang-Kubu; in central America it is the Sisimite; in Australia it is the Yowie. There are very many others from all over Austral-Asia and North America.

What is remarkable about these is their age. Stories of these hairy, bipedal hominids have existed since time immemorial. They appear in myths and stories from all over the world, but as time progressed, they faded in some areas but continued to flourish in others and consistently so. There are also intriguing similarities.

The creatures reported in the islands of southeast Asia are universally smaller than those reported on the mainland, perhaps a case of island dwarfism; a phenomenon where continental animals immigrate to islands and then over time evolve to be smaller than their mainland cousins.

Another common trait is that these creatures appear to be primates. This may not sound important, but when it's considered just all the things a monster could be if this was something purely imaginary, the consistency of appearance throughout so many wildly diverse cultures, including cultures (such as North American Indians) who had never encountered great apes or even primates, is remarkable.

I think that they appear to be primates may explain why they have proven so elusive, if they do exist. We may well be pursuing a creature likely closer to human intelligence than any other animal in existance; one that appears to make an effort to avoid humans when at all possible. Humans aren't used to hunting something like that -- except other humans. And that's not how we're looking for bigfoot. We wonder where the bodies are. I suggest that the bodies may well be buried. Human burial is one of the oldest practices we have, likely coinciding from when we developed tools. Homo sapiens didn't invent tools, nor burial. Neanderthal and Homo erectus buried their dead as we do and they aren't even what we would consider the same species as we are.

To my mind, the evidence is so uniform for so long from such diverse cultures all over the world, that I can't dismiss it all. We have unusual DNA, unclassifiable hair, plaster casts that show dermal ridges, more casts so sophisticated that a hoaxer would need an advanced degree in physiology to duplicate them, droppings, photographs, visual observations from people all over the world for hundreds of years, and recordings of animal sounds that are unknown to zoologists. Skeptics ask, why haven't any of these been found? In truth, some have. The mountain gorilla was thought to be just as wild and impossibly mythical when stories about it first arrived to European scientists. They had heard tell of this creature for hundreds of years but it wasn't until 1902 that the first one was documented. The situation is much the same with the orangutan and the bonobo. While none of these are truly bipedal, they do have the ability to walk upright for extended periods.

Part of me would love an answer to these questions if only to get these creatures protected. Another part of me loves the mystery of not knowing what might lurk out in my back yard. In the end, I think it's the process of inquiry I find the most amazing because it tells me so much about human behavior. There are definite hoaxers out there, some people believing wholeheartedly without any evidence, scientists who outright dismiss even the possibility of the existance of hairy hominids, others who actively search for them. Perhaps we are all delusional and the hairy hominid is an archetype of the collective unconscious. If it is, what does it represent for humanity? Fear of our primal selves as we know, with complete scientific certainty, we once were? Or is it a desire to believe that our primitive selves still exist even if outside of ourselves in some idyllic Barbizon?
 

ZOS23xy

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It's partially decomposed, so it just could be a known species that isn't easily identified.

Several badly decomposed of whales and large basking sharks have been washed ashore, looking completely different and ID as "sea serpents".

The mystery creature may be ID in a few days.

(Later: the link provided on the thread has people suggesting it is a species of cat. The death bloat and fur loss makes quick ID a problem.)
 
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