Open or Closed?

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by Symphonic, Mar 12, 2008.

  1. Symphonic

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    I have, in my studies, found that with the population having a problem with staying 'true' and biologically this is the way it's supposed to be come to the conclusion that it would be smarter to actually just proclaim oneself in an open relationship.

    Now, that doesn't neccessarily mean "seeking" other partners, but if it "happens" it just happens and no one gets hurt; I am not suggesting multiple relations at a time but instead just admitting that having multiple partners is almost inevitable for most persons. With this being the case the person, unless you of course request, doesn't have to report anything and there is no infidelity to report to begin with.

    Do you think the idea is realistic or even halfway decent?

    - College Freshman
     
  2. visceraltuning

    visceraltuning New Member

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    I think you are a college guy surrounded by a lot of chicks you'd like to nail.

    Have fun :)
     
  3. Symphonic

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    You're probably right; I'd just 'feel bad' if I found a relationship and still wanted to have more sex outside of it. Silly moral codes.
     
  4. Corius

    Corius New Member

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    I would suggest that you might pause a bit and ask yourself what your goal in the journey into the fullness of your sexuality is. Some are content to go for the tinsel and firercracker side of sex, while others, and I include myself here, want meaningful sex, that is something much more enduring than the thrill of the moment. The joining of two persons in sex for me should be the confirmation and sealing of the bonds which have already come to be between them. In that kind of sex one is assured that one's sexuality is something precious and filled with meaning. Keep it personal and very private. Spread yourself too thinly over a wide range of partners at your own peril.
     
  5. Lex

    Lex
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    I think that the terms of any relationship should be defined by the people in the relationship first and foremost.
     
  6. Domisoldo

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    Symphonic, the "biology" argument only goes so far...

    Competition for females / males is also abundant in nature. In many species, two males can be quite violent in their fight to capture a female's attention.

    Does it mean you should try to kill me if I hit on the chick you're coveting, just because you can?
     
  7. Phil Ayesho

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    There are other issues...

    Part of the reason AIDS has such a foothold in sub-saharan Africa is the fidelity issue.

    Aids in the heterosexual community of the US has not spread very rapidly because American tend to have individual, isolated infidelities... that is, short term flings as opposed to long term 'arrangements'- with long periods of relative fidelity in between.

    The trend in sub-saharan Africa turns out to be that men have one or two long term mistresses on the side... women who often are in marriages themselves... and that men seldom have periods of fidelity to one partner.

    This subtle difference in extra marital activity is the crucial difference in creating a transmission network...

    An analogy is that Macintosh computers do not tend to get viruses, even though there ARE viruses that affect macs, and they are hooked up to the internet.

    The reason is that the percentage of Mac computers in the web is so low, that viruses simply can not effectively propagate from Mac to Mac...
    Whereas the high percentage of connections between PCs results in extremely efficient propagation.


    Similarly... networks of consistent partner sharing increase the efficiency of STD transmission tremendously. Even marginal increases in promiscuity increase transmission rates exponentially.

    Over time, the higher infection and death rate of males with the "mistress" gene will result in that gene disappearing from the culture.
    Fidelity in Africa will rise, over time.

    Ultimately, the model of human behavior that prevails is the one that balances the needs of reproduction with those of survival.
    The West, with its greater stress on greater fidelity, has been ascendant for 2000 years....


    In that sense, I think we need to realize that our rationalizations, excuses and emotionalism over cheating are stories our brain's concoct "after the fact" to explain, even to ourselves, a behavoir that is simply biologically driven.

    As a man who has striven to remain faithful... I do not get credit for how many times I resist temptation... she has no idea how many offers I have turned down....opportunities I did not pursue.
    But I will get pilloried for the one or two times in 30 years that I fail.


    So, that in mind... I think open marriage is not a good idea if it results in a higher infidelity rate.

    But just the same... I think you should judge your partner's behavior by their baseline... not the exception.

    Not necessarily embrace infidelity... but understand it.

    People drive themselves crazy imagining that human beings can behave in ways they are not built for.
    Imagining teens will abstain, imagining people will stop doing something that is illegal...

    Let's look honestly at the animals we are... and build social systems that maximize what is possible, instead of demandiong the impossible.
     
  8. christina

    christina New Member

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    k first i really dont mean to sound rude to Phil and i get where ur coming from but we're not in africa, and symphonic as long as u wrap up and u know shes on bc u should be fine to go at it : P we all go through our phases where we just wana fuck everyhting in sight but we dont cause deep down we are all a little shallow and u go with to good looking ones ok well anyways there i go rambling again go have fun
     
  9. Phil Ayesho

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    um--- you don't sound rude... just like you didn't read my post...

    I pointed out we weren't in Africa...

    And, BTW... HIV infection does not depend on where you live... it only depends on what you do.
     
  10. D_Ivana Dickenside

    D_Ivana Dickenside New Member

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    i understand your point about having things in a relationship be out in the open. however, a relationship is supposed to be about selflessness and not selfishness. it's you and the other person. not you, the other person, your lover on the side, and your partner's lover's lover, etc. that's just my two cents anyway. but like Lex said, "...the terms of any relationship should be defined by the people in the relationship first and foremost." however, i think it could be possible to redefine in your own perspective what a relationship is and what it can be. people break away from the norm in all aspects of life. this just might not be something that everyone is going to be accepting of.
     
  11. lonestar692000

    lonestar692000 New Member

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    I think all of the posts thus far are right on the money. Each and every one is individual and they exemplify where the poster is coming from; repleat with his/her mores. There is no right or wrong answer to the question, but there are an enormous number of opinions.

    Does infidelity work for me? No, it does not...on any level. Does it work for you? Maybe. If so, go forth and be happy. I think the world would be a much better place if we would stop inflicting our values upon others and expecting them to conform. If everyone spent a little more time in their own business and a lot less time in other people's, we just might achieve world peace...
     
  12. Phil Ayesho

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    Just to be clear...
    I firmly believe that there is nobility in trying to live in the mind, rather than in the flesh.
    I understand our genetic propensity to stray, just as I understand our animal willingness to kill....

    Understanding them doesn't mean I endorse either...


    I believe that there is honor, and respect, and love in being faithful.

    That is why I am faithful.

    IT isn't easy... I am not a stone buddha... I have the same urges and opportunities as anyone else...

    And, to be honest, I am not faithful simply because SHE wouldn't like it, or because she would be devastated by the betrayal... ( though that certainly factors)
    ...And not because of what my peers might think of me...

    In the final analysis... it doesn't matter what others think of me...
    What matters is what I think of me.

    I am faithful because I aspire to be the man who is worthy of this woman.

    I am faithful so that I can have respect for the man I see in the mirror.
     
  13. B_Demention

    B_Demention New Member

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    It's a legitimate concern and I for one always fuck up in this regard. When I'm just getting involved with someone I like things to develop and progress, but only to a certain point. After that I just can't get over wanting to sow my seed, regardless of how I feel about her. With me it's like sentiment/love and hormones are completely separate. I can be nuts about a girl and still want to bone her best friend. Then convenience sets in and I consider what upheaval it would be to leave, which in turn makes me think "where did I go wrong?" as it all becomes too heavy and intense for me to deal with. Before I know it, I'm Al Bundy and I want to screw everyone BUT the girl I'm with. Understand, I've never acted on my urges and have always finished with someone before being with anyone else, but what I said still stands.
     
  14. Principessa

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    Your 'idea' is neither realistic nor decent, not even half way decent. It's bullshit, I think you are looking for an excuse to cheat.

    njqt466
    serial mongamist


     
  15. Mr. Snakey

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    Open relationships seldom work ending in a bad way. To have an honest talk about sexual needs and desires is a better option.
     
  16. visceraltuning

    visceraltuning New Member

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    Phil your whole argument is held together by Modernization Theory, which basically tries to explain why North America and Europe are better than the rest of the world without respecting historical developments, which usually means ignoring political and economic manipulation. Most academics and people who care about stopping stuff like sweat shops and mass starvation believe in some form of Development Theory, which basically states that most non-European and North American countries experienced economic stagnation (which resulted in an outgrowth of poor healthcare, education, etc.) because of trade imbalances and single product economies set up by colonial administration from Europe and North America.

    No, you don't sound like a stone buddha. You sound far more like a guy that would say to himself WWJD, which normally translates to self-righteous prix hypocrite. I met a lot of them, even when I went to a very good Christian Liberal Arts College, Promise Keepers, etc.

    Seriously, you should listen to yourself because some of your statements are upchuck provoking.

    Not only that but I have met men with far more liberal values than yours that are way more faithful to their spouses, not because they care about their self-image, but because they are in a good mutually fulfilling relationship.
     
  17. visceraltuning

    visceraltuning New Member

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    Perhaps he is. For a male College Freshman, is it really all that unusual? No.

    The mere fact that he asked the question makes him far more decent than most college guys his age.

    College is an interesting environment because you have a lot of horny guys surrounded by girls that would rather have abortions than child support.
     
  18. Phil Ayesho

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    Um, no... it based in simple evolutionary theory... CULTURAL EVOLUTION.
    I When I say that western civilization has been in ascendancy.. .I am not really speaking of military or economic ascendancy, into which a lot of elements play... I am speaking of cultural memes such as single pair marriage, the rights of the individual, etc.

    Cultural evolution occurs much more rapidly than physical evolution , because unlike with genes, a person does not have to die to eliminate a less fit meme... they can change their mind...

    When cultures come in contact there is a mixing of memes... a competition, really, for the territory of human minds.

    THose memes that better serve the interests of the individual are the ones that will prevail.

    It so happens that certain memes that first emerged in early western civilization are simply far more effective at providing for the individuals who ascribe to those memes.

    As those memes spread, other people in other cultures discover that a core of western ideas simply translate into a better standard of living across the board...




    yes, that certainly is a prevalent politically correct attitude... but it is incorrect.
    The very idea of a sweatshop is parochial and reflects an idiotic western bias.
    I remember a bunch of folks boycotting Nike because they employed children in asia.

    That was stupid.
    Only some imbecile who never has BEEN in the poorer parts of Asia would entertain such an idea...

    As if those kids, if NOT working for Nike, would have been playing little league games in the park...

    In fact... their parents had stood in line for a week, and paid some local official a bribe, just to get their kid a job that wasn't stoop labor in the rice paddy...
    Because their kids NOT working is simply not an option.

    In fact, buying Nike shoes does far more to improve conditions in the third world that anything else the average westerner ever does.... because it directly puts YOUR money into THEIR pockets... no governments...

    I spent a lot of time in CHina... and let me tell you, sure, they make $500 a month... so what? they can buy name brand jeans for 2 dollars and every other thing we westerners buy at cost, because they make them.

    $500 per month, In CHina, is the most money they have ever made, pays for their cell phone, their transportation, their food and clothing and they still have half their money left to send home to their parents...

    And, all "bad imperialists" nonsense aside... I will point out two simple facts... the ONLY truly functioning democracies in the world today are all former British colonies. Because that is where the ideas underpinning free societies came form...


    And, history and CURRENT development clearly shows that the catalyst that has founded every major civilization on earth is Clean water... and Health.

    A population must have access to healthy water BEFORE they can afford more complex civilizations.

    In Africa, development has been particularly slow... because of poor and unsanitary water.
    Everyplace in Africa that gets a clean water supply, econnomic development begins to show progress.

    This is because without clean water... human beings are sick more often... and this affects the amount of work that a member of the community can accomplish. A population must attain a certain threshold of average health before they have the surplus energy to build civilizations.

    Egypt, the indus, mesopotamia, Rome... were all founded on clean water and effective sewage.
    And after the Dark ages, European civilization took off first in those cities that still had working Roman water systems.


    So... sorry... but political correctness aside... the West took over cause of clean water... and because they had better ideas, that better capitalized on human self interest.

    Over time, the human condition has improved...

    When cultures mix, just like your parents genes... what survives over time is the best, most effective memes from both cultures.

    All cultural ideas are NOT equal.
    SOME really do translate into greater power and security for the individual.

    That is what will win out because human beings who chose to believe what works will out-compete those who chose to believe something that doesn't work... or doesn't work as well.
     
  19. bzemek

    bzemek Member

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    Since the most useful/thoughtful responses have probably already been posted...have you ever considered bringing up the possibility of a threesome? Or even swapping with another couple?
     
  20. bzemek

    bzemek Member

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    Acutally this is a movement of whig history, the movement towards perpetual progress and the triumph of man, which is actually something that most in the science of evolution refute.
     
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