Open question to movement conservatives (Lay it out on the table)

Discussion in 'Politics' started by itsthepopei, Jun 11, 2011.

  1. itsthepopei

    itsthepopei Active Member

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    How much government would you find acceptable?

    What programs would you rather be privatized?

    What regulatory departments would you want to be removed & why?

    What would be a good tax rate? Give reasoning behind your answer and real world parallels where it actually worked.

    What is in your opinion the role of government?
     
  2. Calboner

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    :popcorn:
     
  3. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Surprised that none of them have answered the question thus far.
     
  4. joyboytoy79

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    I'm not. So far none of these questions have been addressed by Fox News talking points.
     
  5. NumberTwentySix

    NumberTwentySix New Member

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    Why not just say, "Can someone please lay out an argument for something I disagree with so I can nitpick it to death and inflate my post count?"
     
  6. itsthepopei

    itsthepopei Active Member

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    i made this thread in hopes of actually understanding there positions as i have an extremely difficult time empathizing with them.
     
  7. itsthepopei

    itsthepopei Active Member

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    as am i
     
  8. fsu

    fsu
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    I'll take the bait I guess lol. I'm not going to answer them all because doing so on a forum like this is not the best medium to have such discussions.

    I feel the less government the better. Government has become nothing more than a self serving entity. They are completely out of touch in the real world. They have a good handle on Foreign Policy and Military matters. On the domestic front, print currency, ensure fair interstate commerce, maintain the interstate system, create a national standard for education, and regulate the environment. The last two on that list require some explanation. Education, we need a national standard to ensure that the country as a whole remains competitive. If States A, B, G, F, X, and W say you only need a 5th grade reading comprehension and no algebra, and to be taught klingon that hinders the future of America as a whole. How those standards are implemented should be completely up to the states. How Florida wants something done is different that say Idaho. The environment is a simple one. Pollution in Delaware does not stay in Delaware it floats over to Maryland therefore if Delaware wants no environmental control and Maryland wants strict control that wont work because Delaware's shredded tires are floating on over to the Maryland shores.

    As for the privatization, if it does not fit into what I said above then it should be at least semi private. The innovation comes from the private sector. Does the Air Force build the F35? No, Lockheed Martin does. Does the Department of Justice manufacture their Sidearms? No, Glock, Beretta, Colt, etc do. NASA? Boeing, Lockheed, Honeywell...you get the picture. Let the private sector folks handle it. If you insist, let the government set the goal, but have the people that get whose only focus is that task figure out how to reach it.

    Government Regulatory agencies? That is a toughy. I'm not sure if any should go but there are some things they enfore that need to go or be a bit more tough or clear. Biggie is gun control...not a fan of it. Well...I am in favor of control against grenade launchers and tanks but other than that you should be able to have as many as you want. Other than that, not really sure. I'd have to do more research to give you a more specific list.

    As for the tax thing....it is so fucked up they need to just scrap it and start over. I'm not educated in taxes enough to give you what needs to be in its place but I know enough to know that it is complete garbage. I will say have it in simple English so that the family of 6 who make enough to not qualify for free tax prep but not enough for an accountant can do it themselves and have it done correctly.


    There is an old saying, give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime. The government needs to teach how to fish and stop giving them. That does not mean people don't need a fish every once and a while but there needs to be an endgame. Instituting cross training, higher education, life strategies, etc with welfare for instance would go a long way. If you are just given money then the problem will never get solved. It is a band aid for the broken arm if you will.

    The problem with government is that it is too rapped up in sustaining its self it often overlooks the people and the real problems. Lets throw money at it or form a committee of people that have never suffered from that problem and come up with some really nifty sounding program that will make US and the GENERAL POPULATION feel like it is solved but has done nothing for THOSE AFFECTED. Healthcare is an example of this. Creating a universal healthcare plan, or creating a public option with the chance for an opt out does nothing to solve the problem. Figure out what the problem is, and fix it. There is a reason that treatments cost and arm and a leg, why medication is over inflated, and other medical costs are so much. Washington just wanted to look like they were solving the problem and figure out a way to get elected. Where it was voting for it like the Dems, or railing it like the Reps. The talk was why IT was bad and not why THE REAL PROBLEM was bad.
     
  9. itsthepopei

    itsthepopei Active Member

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    First id like to thank you for responding whilst most have not.
    May surprise you but allot of what you said i agree with. The areas we disagree on are probably a matter of perspective. I grew up in Germany and have seen what a strong public option looks like. It allows the government to set the prices for medical services. As for innovation i totally agree that the privet sector innovates at a steeper curve than the public sector, however i do think there are areas that should not be privet namely like healthcare as IMO it is immoral to make a buck off someone else's suffering. with gun control i would rather you have to have a face to face interview with an atf agent in order to get assault rifles with quarterly audits on retailers to ensure they aren't skipping over paperwork to make more money (I too like guns but found it entirely too ez to get my collection).
     
  10. B_lrgeggs

    B_lrgeggs New Member

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    Have you done a google search to see what you could find?
     
  11. ZOS23xy

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    While I do not find much of the government objectionable, I feel that what makes people angry about government is the percentile of corruption and how lightly it is treated.
     
  12. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Agreed. But what I don't get is how some people try to reconcile the problem by essentially running on an ideology that the entire government is useless and needs to be dismantled. Since government is essentially a reflection of the people they serve (as well as necessary to some extent to maintain some level of order), wouldn't the best idea be to pay more attention to the actions of our politicians and not just what they say? At least this way we can put people in office that may be "less corrupt" since we all know most politicians are to some degree.
     
  13. houtx48

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    Like everyone else conservatives really only want to bitch about the problems rather than find solutions for them.
     
  14. D_Davy_Downspout

    D_Davy_Downspout Account Disabled

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    First off, this is a pretty good post, thanks for taking the time.

    I find it pretty interesting that one of your first lines is that you want smaller government, and then you spend most of the rest of your post detailing a larger government. Don't take this the wrong way, but I think the "small government" line is something you've internalized but haven't given a huge amount of thought to. I think what you want is a government that gives you more bang for your buck. Most of the time people are talking about a government that does things sensibly, and when they say "small government", they mean they want less waste. But there's not really a ton of waste, unless you're talking business subsidies or military spending. And if you take military spending out(it's basically sacred in American Politics), there's just not a whole lot of fat in the budget.

    That's because everybody in Washington knows what the problem is. However, nobody was really interested in fixing it, they were interested in getting votes.

    The problem with US healthcare is for-profit, unregulated privatized care. Everybody who has ever studied it knows this. Of course, the industry spends huge amounts of money on politicians. The main Dem in charge of writing the healthcare bill was Max Baucus, who just happened to also be the guy receiving the most money from AHIP(the insurance lobby). Obama received huge amounts of insurance money.

    The US spends more, per capita, than any other country in the world on healthcare. Not just a little bit more, literally double. For that money, we do not get the best healthcare in the world on average. Sure, if you're mega-rich you can get the best, but 99.9999% of us are not that rich. No other industrialized nation has people dying due to lack of care....we have 40,000. No other industrialized nation has a large number of medical bankruptcies. It's the leading cause of personal bankruptcy here.

    No other nation has a healthcare system like us. Some have single-payer(Canada, UK). Those systems all cost half of what ours does. Some have private systems(Germany), if you don't care for the single-payer...but the companies are either non-profit or so regulated that they bear no resemblance to any US company.

    Most of the problems in the US have relatively easy fixes, on paper. It's not that people don't know the solutions. They just have no impetus to do anything about them.

    It's the money in the politics that's the problem, and that's a bipartisan problem.
     
  15. Calboner

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  16. ZOS23xy

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    Another huge problem with the USA is that there are too many people who lack education and it does seem too much too often that the uneducated want handouts without the work.
     
  17. D_Davy_Downspout

    D_Davy_Downspout Account Disabled

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    No not really.
     
  18. itsthepopei

    itsthepopei Active Member

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    No its that those who lack education tend to be sheep instead of skeptical members of our democratic institutions leading to things like the birther movement tea party and such.
     
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