Oprah: The Falling State of America's School

Rikter8

Expert Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2005
Posts
4,353
Media
1
Likes
125
Points
283
Location
Ann Arbor (Michigan, United States)
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
I think Lex has some good points, and I think Onslow has good points as well.

I grew up in a school environment of "The Jones's" where everybody had to compete on who had nicer stuff, and who was better than the rest.
This went all the way from Faculty to Parents.
Meanwhile our education went "By the book"

I believe that the Trouble Starts At Home - The Root.
Parents need to be PARENTS - not just 2 people that have Kids to make a socially acceptable "Family".
Children are not an accessory to the Traditional 3 bedroom ranch home.

The Schools need a method of working with the students, and If Necessary - slapping them upside the head (Figuratively) when they get out of line.
The Teachers need more power to handle the kids, and they need to be paid better for what they do.
It may be of benefit to List the State Schools publicly, and rate each school for excellence of grades. Drop the schools that don't make the grade, and get the students to a better school for a better education.
Why Pay taxes on a school thats for shit?

I will admit - that most people are way above me when it comes to book smarts, and that is mainly because I had a VERY poor education from K To 12. I live with this EVERY day, and there isn't much I can do after 27 years of struggling with how to study, etc.
I didn't have the opportunity to learn as well as the other kids due to poor teachers, and a very shaky environment. ( I was always more worried about who was going to pound on me or tease me, and get away with it)

Our School set up a "Anti-College" assembly in the Gym, and they were promoting us to work in the community, and to stay local to support our town, rather than go to college. (The army was the other choice)
We were told, that we didn't have the smarts to make it in college, and it would be a waste of our time.

My parents were the only thing that kept me on track, and that helped me to get where I am today.

I continue to struggle, but I blame all of my troubles on K-12, and the poor education I recieved in that little SHITTY town.

Bush's plan of Leave No Child Behind is a Joke.

Anything that Man passes into law, is done to Fill His Pocketbook.
 

findfirefox

Sexy Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2005
Posts
2,014
Media
0
Likes
34
Points
183
Age
38
Location
Portland, OR
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
I went to school in Washington state where the WASL (Washington assessment of state learning) was king. As part of new legislation too try and keep up with other states and to comply with the "No child left behind" act they had too show that they were going too change things and there way of showing that was creating new graduation requirements. Starting in 2008 all students must finish a Culminating project (This is the community service requirements, a persuasive project about a world or national issue, and have a piece of work ("Best work") from each class taken per semester (So two pieces if its a year long class).) and pass the WASL in Math, Writing, and Reading. (Along with some credit requirement changes)

After this passed the WASL became king, you spend the rest of the time your in school with your teachers who aren't trying to teach anymore but prepare you to take the test so you can get the hell out. The class becomes the teachers saying "This will be on the WASL"

Now if its not enough in some of the larger school they have to do that and they have six periods a day at 50 minutes each, with 5 minute passing times. So they trying get ready for a test that you have to take to get out and teach you anything else your required in that year in so little time while only being allowed to dish out so much homework per night. Each class can't even be called 50 minutes long because people are usually late to class because 5 minutes is not enough time to get to your locker and to your class without being late plus you need prep time for students to turn in homework settle down and get prepared and that can take 5 minutes. At the end of class you have another lost 5 minutes where students stop paying attention because its time to go. So now your down to 40 minutes of class time, so now the teacher needs to teach something so she has to go over things answer question and explain whats going on and that can take anywhere from 10 minutes to 20 leaving students with 30 to 20 minutes of actual work time in class.

Then the teachers are crammed to the breaking point with students and are unable to get to each student, on average in most districts teachers have a total of less then 2 minutes they can spend with each student each day in a class and that's if there using the whole 50 minutes. Plus teachers also get off bad with there pay and there allot of there lives are working for there students in school (Each teacher gets on 50 minute prep period and 30 minutes after school, paid) and at home trying to get ready for the next day.

For teachers that must be hell...

Also some of the kids they spend time with now are just plain stupid and absent minded, siting there text messaging through class... its a pain just to talk too them as I do on occasion when a school asks me too, like to explain what I do and how it works. Most stop paying attention when they find out how much I make... (EMT)
 

DC_DEEP

Sexy Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Posts
8,714
Media
0
Likes
93
Points
183
Sexuality
No Response
Re: No Child Left Behind... an unfunded mandate is just simply that: an unfunded mandate. For struggling school districts, it causes nothing more than failure. For the more solvent districts, all it does is provide window dressing.

I agree with the members who posted comments about the parents' involvement in their childrens' educations. I thought I had made that point in my earlier post. When I was teaching, we had mid-term parent/teacher conferences, meaning that notice was sent to every parent who had a child in school in the district, and two evenings were set aside (of course, making the work day just a little longer) for parents to come have a chat with all their childrens' teachers. Lo and behold, every single time, the only parents who came to see me were the parents of children who were already doing well, the parents who were already INVOLVED in the learning process. Parents of my failing and at-risk students (with only one exception) NEVER showed. I sent additional requests to those parents, offering to meet with them at their convenience, if work or other issues prevented their coming at the "assigned" times. No takers. The one exception I mentioned was the mother of a problem child, but unfortunately, he had emotional/psychological dysfunction that did not qualify for special education.

The main purpose of Master's and Doctoral programs is for gaining specialized knowledge. The main purpose of the educational process from kindergarten through the Bachelor's degree is learning how to learn and how to socialize. Sure, there are some building blocks thrown in there. All the information is in the books, though. Simply putting someone in a room with a locker full of chemicals does not make him a chemist. Throwing facts and figures at a student does not make him educated. He has to be taught to learn, and has to be taught how to be self-motivated.

Has anyone else noticed that after all the "childhood experts" of the late 1950s and the 1960s started teaching "don't discipline your children, reason with them. Don't correct them, it damages their self-esteem," the whole system started to break down? Parents heeded that bad advice, and a whole generation of entitlement mentality began. With very few exceptions, children under about age 11 or 12 don't understand REASON, they understand REWARDS AND CONSEQUENCES.
 

Onslow

Sexy Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2004
Posts
2,392
Media
0
Likes
40
Points
183
Sexuality
No Response
Matthew said:
Pot? Kettle on Line 1.

Never said I could spell, Junior. I was directing my comment towards the educator who should be able to figure out the workings of spellcheck devices and know the simple matter of aN before a word starting with a vowel--among other things. Not be an educator or associated with that particular profession; my standards do not need to be held to as high a level.
 

Onslow

Sexy Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2004
Posts
2,392
Media
0
Likes
40
Points
183
Sexuality
No Response
Lex said:
WOW. I do believe I am being trolled. Thanks for exposing yourself.

Trolling? Oh do get over yourself. If stating my views constitutes trolling then you must really be going nuts right about now considering how many people at various intervals have had views on this board and many of them directly opposite of yours. Perhaps it is merely a matter of you knowing that I speak from a personal knowledge and experience, which eats away at your stomach lining like battery acid on bare skin.


Let me explain this to you (at the risk of being called a terrible Troll again)--I read posts, I respond as I see fit. My views may not be the same as yours and you can feel free to respond to where you find the differences in viewpoints. Believe me when I say this Lex, I do not go trolling anywhere; but, since it seems to bother your delicate senses so much I will no longer respond directly to anything which you post. Who knows maybe everyone else can and will do the same, then you can have the entire board all to your little old self and won't that be a grand moment?
 

Lex

Expert Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2004
Posts
8,253
Media
0
Likes
118
Points
268
Location
In Your Darkest Thoughts and Dreams
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
Onslow--To be clear--You and anyone else are free to take exception to my viewpoints. My skin is way thicker than you can imagine and I don't post things feeling that they can go unchallenged. I hope that everyone here posts from their own personal experiences and knowledge and not heresay or second hand information. It is unclear to me, therefore, why your own experiences (or anyone else's) would grate me. They are yours, not mine. I still respect them and appreciate your sharing them.

When I attempt to open a discussion on schools and you bash my typing (not spelling or grammer as they are not the same) instead of offering any salient counter points to any of the information I linked to, it makes you appear to be trolling. It looks as if Matthew may have agreed with that assessment.

It seems as if you want to continue our disagreement from the Veiled Racism thread. Here, I was attempting to direct people's attention to some media outlets highlighting a legitmate issue in our country. I have had enough arguments for one week and would rather you stop attacking me for a system that failed you when we both see many of the problems inherent in said system. I wasn't there. I can't change that.

I never said that students can not succeed in bad schools. I know they they can certainly succeed to a fuller potential in better schools with support (parent, business partners, community). As long as an "A" from Rural School X is not the same as an "A" from Urban School Y or an "A" from Upper Echelon school Z, the hardworking students in the urban and rural school will always be at a disadvantage regardless of their race.
 

JustAsking

Sexy Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2004
Posts
3,217
Media
0
Likes
33
Points
268
Location
Ohio
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
DC_DEEP said:
Re: No Child Left Behind... an unfunded mandate is just simply that: an unfunded mandate. For struggling school districts, it causes nothing more than failure. For the more solvent districts, all it does is provide window dressing.

...

The point of No Child Left Behind Act is to create criteria under which struggling public schools will fail. This is important to the Bush administration, because it adds impetus to the school voucher idea. Since the goal of the No Child Left Behind Act is to encourage failure of public schools, there is no need for it to be funded.

In a Bush free-market utopia, private and parochial schools should be as well funded by the government as public schools (or all not funded at all). Since the utopia is only for those with wealth, those with wealth will be able to buy a high quality education for their children, and the disadvantaged will not.

A rising tide floats all yachts. Rethinking Schools
 

Rikter8

Expert Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2005
Posts
4,353
Media
1
Likes
125
Points
283
Location
Ann Arbor (Michigan, United States)
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
Bingo,

I know I said Figuratively on my above post, but I am a firm believer of giving a good Swat when Swat is deserved.
I don't think the teachers should do the physical action, it belongs with the parents.

Too many kids nowadays have absolutely no respect, and no upbringing.
Why? Fear of lawsuits by other parents that "See" things which are none of their business. (Seeing them discipline their children)

But that all falls on poor parenthood like you said, and yoru example proves the lack of concern.

Like many things in this world, things have gone to the dogs for too long.
It's like a rusty car - once the rust starts, it just eats away until theres nothing left.

DC_DEEP said:
Has anyone else noticed that after all the "childhood experts" of the late 1950s and the 1960s started teaching "don't discipline your children, reason with them. Don't correct them, it damages their self-esteem," the whole system started to break down? Parents heeded that bad advice, and a whole generation of entitlement mentality began. With very few exceptions, children under about age 11 or 12 don't understand REASON, they understand REWARDS AND CONSEQUENCES.
 

DC_DEEP

Sexy Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Posts
8,714
Media
0
Likes
93
Points
183
Sexuality
No Response
JustAsking said:
In a Bush free-market utopia, private and parochial schools should be as well funded by the government as public schools (or all not funded at all). Since the utopia is only for those with wealth, those with wealth will be able to buy a high quality education for their children, and the disadvantaged will not.
Ah, exactly. What the District of Columbia Village Idiot (GWB) cannot figure out is that, when public money is used to fund private and parochial schools, by definition, they become public schools.
 

SpeedoGuy

Sexy Member
Joined
May 18, 2004
Posts
4,166
Media
7
Likes
41
Points
258
Age
60
Location
Pacific Northwest, USA
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Male
DC_DEEP said:
It is disappointing that people are so quick to point the accusing finger at the teachers, but so reluctant to make it a profession that encourages competition. Teaching is hard work, folks, make no mistake.

Amen to that. My wife teaches and some members of my extended family do as well. From them I often get to listen to an earful about how un-involved parents blame the school system because of little Johnny's inability to turn in a legible assignment on time. Its hardly the teacher's fault when sugar-addicted, TV-obsessed, hyperactive kids (with few social graces or anger-management skills) cannot concentrate in the classroom.