Ordinary life? Not if you're a poof.

[earllogjam]

Just a bit of a ramble, feel free to ignore me here, I've got nothing overly important to say.

I've always found it hard to accept my sexuality. I've done the whole, 'I'm not gay, I'm Bi' thing but have matured enough now, i think, to know I'm gay, all be it not actively gay.

I've found it increasingly difficult of late because more and more people I know are getting married, buying houses and planning for kids, you know, the good old ordinary life everyone expects you to want, have and live.

So here I am, on the verge of 30 and still frightened over my first kiss, if I should ever actually meet anyone. Sigh.

I guess i was kinda brought up to expect to have the live that everyone else around me is living, but then bang, you realise you're gay and that ultimately means, that the 'ordinary' life isn't ever really going to be yours.

I feel like I'm grieving for a life i didn't actually ever have anyways.

I try my up most to be happy for other people on their big days and such but really, deep down inside, it really hurts to know it will never be me. No marriage, no kids, no mile stones that everyone else is always bloody singing about.

Do all gay guys just get old and die in a corner somewhere? Perhaps we do.

Thats all folks, I'll go and be sad somewhere else. Sorry if i've bummed anyone out.

Pup. x

Pup, what are you afraid of?

I think you really need to ask yourself and find out what really makes YOU happy. If you don't know you'll need to find out. Once you discover that you won't be as lost as you are.

I think you wrap too much of your identity in your sexuality when in reality you are much more than what you to do in bed.

True, you're not gonna get married, have kids and live a traditional married life of a straight man because that's just not who you are. That is the model of happiness that was sold to everyone in our society. That's what we are all led to believe but in reality there are many paths to happiness. As a gay man it is essential that you realize this.

You WILL die alone in a corner somewhere and wallow in misery all your life but it's not because you are gay, it's because you bought into the belief of others that being gay is a miserable lot.

 

[Rugbypup]

Well, i have been think about going alone to a guys bar... but i'm afraid I'll be complete billy no mates as I don't have any gay friends.

I'm afraid someone might come on to me and I won't know how to handle it... thinking about, there are quite a few things that frighten me about trying to have a gay (discreet) social life.

Sigh... i'm just sad I think.

 

[D_Relentless Original]

Pup, what are you afraid of?

I think you really need to ask yourself and find out what really makes YOU happy. If you don't know you'll need to find out. Once you discover that you won't be as lost as you are.

I think you wrap too much of your identity in your sexuality when in reality you are much more than what you to do in bed.

True, you're not gonna get married, have kids and live a traditional married life of a straight man because that's just not who you are. That is the model of happiness that was sold to everyone in our society. That's what we are all led to believe but in reality there are many paths to happiness. As a gay man it is essential that you realize this.

You WILL die alone in a corner somewhere and wallow in misery all your life but it's not because you are gay, it's because you bought into the belief of others that being gay is a miserable lot.

Gee, i hope i never get advice like that, i think this is terrible what has been written, talk about pushing someone over the edge, Jesus!!!.
How on earth do you know these things ?, Pup may decide ,when he has decided and come to terms with himself, he may want children and have them, there is so many ways these days for gay couples or singles etc to access, this is 2008 not 1908.

And who are you to say he WILL die alone in a corner and wallow in misery because he bought into the belief of others!!!! how do you know this??,maybe Pup will come to terms with things when he is ready to, not for you to tell him what he's not gonna do and how it will be, Finally i hope you do not counsel for the samaritans.

 

[Rugbypup]

No, no, I didn't read it as bad, please don't be offended.

I understood the jist of what was said in an inoffensive manner.

 

[Rugbypup]

I wonder if it would be possible for two guys to genetically have their own kids one day. All you need is a DNA free donor egg and two sperm to make up the XX or XY, fuse'em and spark'em into action and bang, a child with two genetic fathers.

 

[D_Relentless Original]

I wonder if it would be possible for two guys to genetically have their own kids one day. All you need is a DNA free donor egg and two sperm to make up the XX or XY, fuse'em and spark'em into action and bang, a child with two genetic fathers.

Well Pup, i know two guys a couple who have been together years they mixed their sperm with a close freind and they have got to lots of twins, the point i was making before maybe rather clumsily,is their is always a option in this day and age for something, life does not have to be miserable, honest it does'nt, but and i know a lot of people on here will agree,but the answer is not always on the gay scene and the bars etc, it can be shallow and a lonely place to be mate.

 

[earllogjam]

[/color]

Gee, i hope i never get advice like that, i think this is terrible what has been written, talk about pushing someone over the edge, Jesus!!!.
How on earth do you know these things ?, Pup may decide ,when he has decided and come to terms with himself, he may want children and have them, there is so many ways these days for gay couples or singles etc to access, this is 2008 not 1908.

And who are you to say he WILL die alone in a corner and wallow in misery because he bought into the belief of others!!!! how do you know this??,maybe Pup will come to terms with things when he is ready to, not for you to tell him what he's not gonna do and how it will be, Finally i hope you do not counsel for the samaritans.

Strong words. Who are the samaritans? Well, the advice wasn't meant for you and I didn't intend my post to be offensive and it wasn't taken that way by pup.

I don't know where you live but I think you are terribly naive to think that a gay man or couple can decide to have children just the same as married straight couples. It may be easier now than in 1908 but certainly much harder than if I were a straight man married to a woman. I know because I've looked into adoption myself. First off there are few mothers who would be willing to give their baby up to a gay couple regardless of how well adjusted they are. I won't go into the adoption agencies or court system but suffice to say they are a reflection of the conservative values of what constitues a "family" that most Americans hold.

I also think that it is safe to assume that if you are a gay man and believe that being gay is shameful and wrong that you will live and die a miserable isolating life. Sorry I just don't see it any other way. I think it odd that any gay man would think or tell another gay man that living in shame and denial is OK. Wake up man.


Pup,

If you arm wrestled with your libido who would win? Isn't it about time your libido beat you a couple of times? Work up some courage and just go to the bar. Worst thing that could happen to you is that you'll have a drink alone. Big deal. The best thing that could happen to you....ask your libido.:smile:

 

[D_Relentless Original]

Strong words. Who are the samaritans? Well, the advice wasn't meant for you and I didn't intend my post to be offensive and it wasn't taken that way by pup.

I don't know where you live but I think you are terribly naive to think that a gay man or couple can decide to have children just the same as married straight couples. It may be easier now than in 1908 but certainly much harder than if I were a straight man married to a woman. I know because I've looked into adoption myself. First off there are few mothers who would be willing to give their baby up to a gay couple regardless of how well adjusted they are. I won't go into the adoption agencies or court system but suffice to say they are a reflection of the conservative values of what constitues a "family" that most Americans hold.

I also think that it is safe to assume that if you are a gay man and believe that being gay is shameful and wrong that you will live and die a miserable isolating life. Sorry I just don't see it any other way. I think it odd that any gay man would think or tell another gay man that living in shame and denial is OK. Wake up man.

Apology accepted, but just because YOU don't see it any other way does not mean that other people see it the same way as you.

BTW,i also find it odd that any gay man would think or tell another gay man that living in shame or denial is OK,but that is up to the person, i think it is you that needs to wake up as i do not see that written anywhere, and if you looked further than your nose there is opportunities for gay couples /singles to adopt or have children is that not what people want ? equal rights and opportunities for all ?,or does that not fit with you either.

 

[Ms.Teacher]

You posted something similar to this before.

http://www.lpsg.org/84884-died-from-a-lonely-heart.html


Yet you still identify yourself as 70% gay.

 

[D_Relentless Original]

You posted something similar to this before.

http://www.lpsg.org/84884-died-from-a-lonely-heart.html


Yet you still identify yourself as 70% gay.

Hi Ms Teacher, i was reading that post and the advice you and BigBull 29 gave is excellent, go to the top of the class Ms:smile:

 

[Mem]

Well, i have been think about going alone to a guys bar... but i'm afraid I'll be complete billy no mates as I don't have any gay friends.

I'm afraid someone might come on to me and I won't know how to handle it... thinking about, there are quite a few things that frighten me about trying to have a gay (discreet) social life.

Sigh... i'm just sad I think.

You should go, they are fun. You will meet people. I am extremely shy but I was still able to make friends at a gay bar/club.

As far as the straight things in life, they are not for me. I do not want kids, I do not want to get married (to a guy).

In fact I am going to run away from my (so called) life and move to (gay) Southeast Florida in a few months. I hope to find a job where I can work in a gay environment and be out at work.

Coming from a Hispanic conservative family it is very hard to be gay. My mother had a gay first cousin in Florida and the family was cool with it, he was FLAMING and was a florist. Unfortunately he died of Aids in the 80's.

I still feel the societal stigma that comes with being gay. I would never be comfortable bringing a guy home for Thanksgiving dinner, that may change some day.

Pup... be true to yourself and go for what you want.

 

[earllogjam]

Strong words. Who are the samaritans? Well, the advice wasn't meant for you and I didn't intend my post to be offensive and it wasn't taken that way by pup.

I don't know where you live but I think you are terribly naive to think that a gay man or couple can decide to have children just the same as married straight couples. It may be easier now than in 1908 but certainly much harder than if I were a straight man married to a woman. I know because I've looked into adoption myself. First off there are few mothers who would be willing to give their baby up to a gay couple regardless of how well adjusted they are. I won't go into the adoption agencies or court system but suffice to say they are a reflection of the conservative values of what constitues a "family" that most Americans hold.

I also think that it is safe to assume that if you are a gay man and believe that being gay is shameful and wrong that you will live and die a miserable isolating life. Sorry I just don't see it any other way. I think it odd that any gay man would think or tell another gay man that living in shame and denial is OK. Wake up man.

Apology accepted, but just because YOU don't see it any other way does not mean that other people see it the same way as you.

BTW,i also find it odd that any gay man would think or tell another gay man that living in shame or denial is OK,but that is up to the person, i think it is you that needs to wake up as i do not see that written anywhere, and if you looked further than your nose there is opportunities for gay couples /singles to adopt or have children is that not what people want ? equal rights and opportunities for all ?,or does that not fit with you either.

i've read this post 3 times and still can't understand what you are saying.
as a side note- it's impossible to accept a apology when none was given.

 

[D_Relentless Original]

i've read this post 3 times and still can't understand what you are saying.
as a side note- it's impossible to accept a apology when none was given.

Good answer,

 

[earllogjam]

Good answer,

Are you as charming in real life as you are online?

 

[invisibleman]

Just a bit of a ramble, feel free to ignore me here, I've got nothing overly important to say.

I've always found it hard to accept my sexuality. I've done the whole, 'I'm not gay, I'm Bi' thing but have matured enough now, i think, to know I'm gay, all be it not actively gay.

I've found it increasingly difficult of late because more and more people I know are getting married, buying houses and planning for kids, you know, the good old ordinary life everyone expects you to want, have and live.

So here I am, on the verge of 30 and still frightened over my first kiss, if I should ever actually meet anyone. Sigh.

I guess i was kinda brought up to expect to have the live that everyone else around me is living, but then bang, you realise you're gay and that ultimately means, that the 'ordinary' life isn't ever really going to be yours.

I feel like I'm grieving for a life i didn't actually ever have anyways.

I try my up most to be happy for other people on their big days and such but really, deep down inside, it really hurts to know it will never be me. No marriage, no kids, no mile stones that everyone else is always bloody singing about.

Do all gay guys just get old and die in a corner somewhere? Perhaps we do.

Thats all folks, I'll go and be sad somewhere else. Sorry if i've bummed anyone out.

Pup. x

Ruggerpup--

I was really wanting to say something along those lines as well. But I was actually afraid of the answers. I am always wanting to be optimistic about dating...but it is hard.

I was in a relationship with a guy for six years and it ended up REALLY bad. I also felt like damaged goods after all of that. Now, I am solitaire...but am not confined.

But I think that no matter the sexual orientation...no matter the age. We don't have any control over what happens to us when we are older. I know some straight people who have lost their relationships and EVEN they wonder should be put behind the stables and shot like an injured horse. There are EVEN straight women out there without straight men--they have trouble getting dates....and they aren't considering dating women...unless they are bicurious--of course.

You aren't alone in your feeling, Rugby.

I am glad that you have asked this question though.

:smile:



I think that gay men should be thinking of getting older and how to approach life. I know guys older than I am STILL going to circuit parties...and I haven't gone to one...but HEY if I have to watch zonked out club kid senior citizens...I could be at home watching QUEER AS FOLK on the DVD.

We all have a place in our lives where we are at a crossroads.

 

[simcha]

Rugbypup,

I'd submit to you that there is no such thing as an "ordinary life." It's an illusion mass marketed to us by media. Those who seem to lead an "ordinary life" only do so on the surface. Trust me. They come to me to talk with me for an hour per week and they pour all of their repressed and not so repressed fantasies out onto the floor for me to sift through...

Anyway...

That being said, what is an "ordinary life" for you? Do you really want an "ordinary life?" What about having an extraordinary life? What would that be like for you?

Or perhaps what would an exemplary life be?

We all have to find meaning in our own lives on our own. Even those who fit into the "majority" and appear "ordinary" need to come up with their own meaning for their own lives.

I'm not sure what New Zealand has to offer you as a gay person. I know that here in California we have just experienced the lifting of the ban on gay marriage. We will face a fight in the Fall to keep an amendment to our constitution out of the constitution limiting a marriage to one man and one woman. But in less than 30 days we will be getting married in large numbers, if observation proves to be true. Also, we can adopt in California. Also with a marriage, it should make things easier in adopting children. No, you can't have a child with another man biologically yet. What would be the advantage in that anyway? It would still be extraordinary, no?

All of the other facets of life that heterosexuals can do, we can do. It's a matter of choice and opportunity. Yes, we face discrimination. So there are a few glass ceilings still out there. This may not change in our lifetime. At the same time, with enough "chutzpah" you can acheive whatever you want.

Find something that you love. Find something that gives your life meaning. Go out and do it. Finding Mr. Right isn't the end all be all for me. It doesn't have to be for you either. In the course of doing what you love and doing whatever it is that gives your life meaning, you never know who you will meet.

I don't hang out in bars normally. I go maybe four or five times per year. That means that the men I meet are either on-line or they happen to be involved in whatever or wherever I'm involved. A bar can be fun. It can also be a very lonely place. It's best, for me, if I go with friends or I'm meeting friends. Going alone doesn't work for me. I don't drink much and I get tired of all of the alcoholic behavior I find there and I usually leave well before midnight, alone.

So, all the men with whom I've ever been serious, have been men I've met in the course of doing whatever it is that I'm doing in my life that gives my life meaning. Even going to the laundromat can yield meaning and social contacts. My work brings me to places I'd never go otherwise. My work is definitely my contribution to the world. I help guide people into better ways of being for themselves based on who they are at their core. They end up happier, usually, because they are living in synchronicity with who they are at their very core. I'm a midwife as a psychotherapist. I help each client to give birth to a better and more authentic him or her. This is what I find gives my life much of its meaning. I've structured my life around becoming a psychotherapist and doing work with populations who normally don't have access to mental health care.

Find what it is that you love and follow your dreams. Fear and hiding lead to more fear and hiding. That will leave you alone and miserable in the end, contrary to what others might say. Buying into the whole "I'm a bad person because I'm gay... It's bad to be gay... Being gay is being miserable" messages that society wishes to offer us isn't going to help.

Sorry Rugbypup. You aren't "ordinary" as others would have you believe "ordinary" is. Find your own definition of ordinary and become it. As gay men we all have a lot of work to do in defining ourselves because society doesn't seem to want to present any happy examples of how to be a gay man. Yes, it's difficult. And, it's also the "ordinary" struggle that all people face whether they know it or not, and whether they allow you to know it or not.

 

[D_Relentless Original]

Are you as charming in real life as you are online?

LoL, Now thats a question i ask myself earllogjam :redface:. My apologies if i came across rude to you .