Osama bin Laden is Still Dead.

Calboner

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Gentlemen - please be sure to include this news item from CNN which discusses Al Qaeda's acknowledgement of Osama bin Laden's death in your next conspiracy theory post.

How childish of you, Colorado Guy, to assume that Al Qaeda really exists and is not just part of the big conspiracy. :rolleyes:
 

ColoradoGuy

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Yawn. Stop reading children's books on history. It's that level of analysis that plagues this site.

Adolf Galland, commander of Luftwaffe fighters at the time, claimed invasion plans were not serious and that there was a palpable sense of relief in the Wehrmacht when it was finally called off. Field Marshal Gerd von Rundstedt also took this view and thought that Hitler never seriously intended to invade Britain and the whole thing was a bluff, to put pressure on the British Government to come to terms.[41] In fact in November 1939 the German Naval staff produced a study (on the possibility of an invasion of Britain) and concluded that it required two preconditions, air and naval superiority, neither of which Germany ever had.[42]
Operation Sea Lion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In truth, Hitler could have wiped out the cream of the British army in 1940 at Dunkirk, & even bemoaned the lack of acknowledgement of his "sportsmanship" (his words) at the end of the war. The Germans never expected to advance so far, so quickly, & wanted a pact, or non-intervention pact with Britain (because, a you put it, they shared "common heritage and... similar values"), so that they could freely attack Russia. One of the details of that pact would have been the complete withdrawl from France & the Low Countries.

There should be a lot declassified in 2017 - so we might see more detail then.

I am pleased you are familiar with this topic. You're probably also aware that Galland constantly sparred with Goring and was publicly humiliated by Hitler and then fired for insubordination in the wake of the Luftwaffe's inability to suppress American daytime raids into Germany. I would guess he had a considerable axe to grind in his retelling of the events leading up to Germany's defeat. As to Rundstedt, you probably also know that he was an Army officer from World War I and as such, only reluctantly served Nazi ideals -- probably owing more to his allegiance to the Army and not Hitler. He resigned from the Army (he later admitted detesting Hitler's control of the Army) but was recalled prior to the invasion of Poland. He often disagreed with Hitler's policies and was twice removed from command by Hitler.

So, the "proof" of Sea Lion's use as a bluff is pretty thin. This article in the Wikipedia (among countless other sources) cites two military officers with considerable motivation to provide an alternative to the generally accepted understanding of Sea Lion's purpose and objectives. Absenting these two sources, I don't think you will find significant substantiation favoring the claim that Sea Lion was a counter-intelligence play.

Let's face it: had the Battle of Britain gone the other way, Hitler would not have likely abandoned Sea Lion because he would have established air superiority. The weight of the argument that Germany needed naval superiority to support a pre-1941 invasion of Britain is still a point of contention among military historians. I personally think that Hitler was convinced he didn't need it and a victory over Britain's RAF in the summer of 1940 might have cemented that thought.

Declassified documents in the future may present more details, but I'm not aware of any released to date that have supported the premise that Sea Lion was just a ruse.
 

maxcok

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Addressed to ColoradoGuy:
Yawn. Stop reading children's books on history. It's that level of analysis that plagues this site.
..:chairfall::lmao::rofl: Lawd, the irony!

And another putdown from Maxcock, who generally only ever posts in order to put down another.
That's not true at all, but it's the typical exaggerated analysis of someone who cherry picks his information and makes snaps judgements based entirely on personal bias. It's also typical of someone only capable of thinking in absolutist extremes and incapable of dealing in nuance and shades of grey.

Insults over analysis the whole time.
I wasn't laughing at your simplistic "analysis", so much as I was laughing at your arrogant patronizing tone and your convoluted syntax.

I don't mind discussion or debate, but this playground mentality is quite juvenile. Grow up a little please, you're more Bush than Obama.
Now that's ironic. LOL. Look here, Mary Jane.


p.s. Would you please stop typing your responses inside my quote box, making it appear that I'm the author of your confused and confusing ramblings. If you cannot figure out how to split quotes, find another way, dammit!
 
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maxcok

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^ Thanks for the reminder, esteemed Bear. If I may humbly offer my own, I know that your substantial intellectual gifts enable you to employ the 'ignore' button inside your own head and avoid reading passages that cause you suffering. :wink:
 
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parr

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Obama & Al queda has declared Bin Laden dead. Bin Laden is in fact alive so this is part of a fiendish plot to have him replace Donald Trump and become the next US president. Or something like that.

Unbelievable, this is getting rediculous.:rolleyes:
 

B_crackoff

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Just a reminder, the "Ignore" button works quite well, except when you insist upon quoting the intellectually deficient as a set up for your counter arguments. Then we all suffer.

Yawn - a difference in views is hardly a deficiency you old bugger:wink:.

And CG, there was no way, IMO, the Germans could have committed to a difficult & protracted battle in the West, whilst leaving the rear open for Johnny Soviet to take advantage.

There were zero plans in May 1940 for the invasion of Britain - they didn't think that the Blitzkrieg would be so efficiently succesful. Furthermore, as evidenced at Dunkirk, they didn't want to piss off the Brits with regard to any future pact.

It's not commonly known, & is omitted from most texts, that the Blitz of the UK, & the bombing of German cities, stopped entirely for nearly 2 years the day after Hess parachuted into Scotland.

The entire German focus from the outset was the expansion to the East, & the defeat of Communism.

The outcome of the war in Europe cannot be in dispute. A war to stop a bloodthirsty tyrant enslaving Eastern Europe, ended with a bloodthirsty tyrant enslaving Eastern Europe. Can anybody sensibly disagree? HalfCocked, anyone?
 
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parr

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Yawn - a difference in views is hardly a deficiency you old bugger:wink:.

And CG, there was no way, IMO, the Germans could have committed to a difficult & protracted battle in the West, whilst leaving the rear open for Johnny Soviet to take advantage.

There were zero plans in May 1940 for the invasion of Britain - they didn't think that the Blitzkrieg would be so efficiently succesful. Furthermore, as evidenced at Dunkirk, they didn't want to piss off the Brits with regard to any future pact.

It's not commonly known, & is omitted from most texts, that the Blitz of the UK, & the bombing of German cities, stopped entirely for nearly 2 years the day after Hess parachuted into Scotland.

The entire German focus from the outset was the expansion to the East, & the defeat of Communism.

The outcome of the war in Europe cannot be in dispute. A war to stop a bloodthirsty tyrant enslaving Eastern Europe, ended with a bloodthirsty tyrant enslaving Eastern Europe. Can anybody sensibly disagree? HalfCocked, anyone?

I think that's the story read.
 

B_Hickboy

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Yawn - a difference in views is hardly a deficiency you old bugger:wink:.

And CG, there was no way, IMO, the Germans could have committed to a difficult & protracted battle in the West, whilst leaving the rear open for Johnny Soviet to take advantage.

There were zero plans in May 1940 for the invasion of Britain - they didn't think that the Blitzkrieg would be so efficiently succesful. Furthermore, as evidenced at Dunkirk, they didn't want to piss off the Brits with regard to any future pact.

It's not commonly known, & is omitted from most texts, that the Blitz of the UK, & the bombing of German cities, stopped entirely for nearly 2 years the day after Hess parachuted into Scotland.

The entire German focus from the outset was the expansion to the East, & the defeat of Communism.

The outcome of the war in Europe cannot be in dispute. A war to stop a bloodthirsty tyrant enslaving Eastern Europe, ended with a bloodthirsty tyrant enslaving Eastern Europe. Can anybody sensibly disagree? HalfCocked, anyone?
Wow! You should have a talk radio show!
 

B_crackoff

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Just a reminder, the "Ignore" button works quite well, except when you insist upon quoting the intellectually deficient as a set up for your counter arguments. Then we all suffer.

Hey, hey - well MLB, I've been invited by the Catalans to do some consultancy - I arrive in Barca on Weds, for 3 days. Someone must be listening!:wink:

Please feel free to ignore me while I'm there, & get back to paying whatever bucks your dollar buys for you (I know that it's cheaper than the states)!

Wow! You should have a talk radio show!

I lack your one liners. :wink:
 

ColoradoGuy

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Yawn - a difference in views is hardly a deficiency you old bugger:wink:.

And CG, there was no way, IMO, the Germans could have committed to a difficult & protracted battle in the West, whilst leaving the rear open for Johnny Soviet to take advantage.

There were zero plans in May 1940 for the invasion of Britain - they didn't think that the Blitzkrieg would be so efficiently succesful. Furthermore, as evidenced at Dunkirk, they didn't want to piss off the Brits with regard to any future pact.

It's not commonly known, & is omitted from most texts, that the Blitz of the UK, & the bombing of German cities, stopped entirely for nearly 2 years the day after Hess parachuted into Scotland.

The entire German focus from the outset was the expansion to the East, & the defeat of Communism.

The outcome of the war in Europe cannot be in dispute. A war to stop a bloodthirsty tyrant enslaving Eastern Europe, ended with a bloodthirsty tyrant enslaving Eastern Europe. Can anybody sensibly disagree? HalfCocked, anyone?

We actually weren't debating the outcome of the war. We were positing whether or not your statement was correct:

Originally Posted by crackoff
/snip/Even without the US, Britain was never invaded, nor even really planned to be either./snip/
While Britain was never invaded, I did question your rather bold assertion about whether it was "planned to be". I enjoy debating with you, but please... stay on track. Also, your May 1940 date is out of context with my previous comment. Where did that come from?

** However, our discussion of WWII history is quite off topic. Another thread, another time? **
 

phillyhangin

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Ah. Mods can close this thread. I was waiting for someone to get the reference. Actually had a moderator send me a PM calling me names about this stuff.
All I keep thinking of is the movie "S1m0ne," which featured a scene with the CGI actress (Rachel Roberts) holding up a newspaper that said "Simone Still Dead" after her deleted files are restored - just in time to save Al Pacino's character from getting blamed for her death.
 

Calboner

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All I keep thinking of is the movie "S1m0ne," which featured a scene with the CGI actress (Rachel Roberts) holding up a newspaper that said "Simone Still Dead" after her deleted files are restored - just in time to save Al Pacino's character from getting blamed for her death.

I think that Hickboy was saying that in response to my last post (#75). The reference is to a Saturday Night Live "Weekend Update" joke from the 1970s.
 

phillyhangin

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I think that Hickboy was saying that in response to my last post (#75). The reference is to a Saturday Night Live "Weekend Update" joke from the 1970s.
I used to watch that all the time (original cast), but I didn't remember that one. That's probably where the screenwriter for "S1m0ne" got the idea. :tongue: