Out of lurkerdom to ask a question

Discussion in 'Women's Issues' started by AllHazzardi, Jul 17, 2008.

  1. AllHazzardi

    AllHazzardi Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Messages:
    339
    Albums:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Palm Springs, California
    I know I haven't been around for a long time, haven't really had time to post with school and home studies, among other things. I've returned here to ask a question of the ladies, a sort of open form survey.

    This question applies to feminine members of a relationship(not specifically females).

    It often comes in a relationship or argument where the feminine will say "You just don't understand". Whether it's true or not is not my question. My question is thus:

    In these situations, what are some things you want or think the masculine should understand?

    Please explain each particular thing you list, and please don't dumb it down, explain to the best detail you feel is necessary to convey the concept.

    Masculine are welcome to post responses.
     
    #1 AllHazzardi, Jul 17, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2008
  2. Runco

    Runco New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    London
    You may as well ask how long a piece of string is. What 'we' want you to understand would surely depend on what you are discussing at the time the statement is made. Perhaps you could outline what was being discussed, your respective stances and then us poor women might a chance of giving you an answer.
     
  3. B_Mademoiselle Rouge

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2007
    Messages:
    9,735
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    Southern US
    There is a language barrier that is preventing me from entirely understanding this question. Maybe i need it dumbed down. I am starting to feel like LPSG is where straight men come to solve all their problems with females.
     
  4. MarkLondon

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,986
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London, UK
    Not sure if I'm on the right track here, but broadly, women tend to think/relate in empathic mode and men tend to be more systematic in their thoughts/relationships.

    If someone tells me of a problem they're having, as a man my instinct is to suggest possible solutions. But I have learned that women especially are not always seeking answers, but want empathy/sympathy/comforting - and the word they often use for that is "understanding".
     
  5. MarkLondon

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,986
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London, UK
    Well the poor dears need somewhere, lol!

    Bombarded at a young age with unrealistic media images of women and men. Feeling obliged to project themselves as macho to their mates. Labeled as "gay" if they expose their sensitive side. Having to deal with women with more sexual experience than in the past. Maybe it's not so easy to be a straight man nowadays.
     
  6. MarkLondon

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,986
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London, UK
    And they have to learn how to sexually satisfy someone with a different body and set of genitals to what they have - that's a challenge!
     
    #6 MarkLondon, Jul 20, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2008
  7. drdna

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    Messages:
    106
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Verified:
    Photo
    Dr. Deborah Tannen wrote an excellent book about this topic back in the early '90's called "You Just Don't Understand! Women and Men in Conversation."
     
  8. SurferGirlCA

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,175
    Likes Received:
    147
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Los Angeles (CA, US)
    I think we're in the Women Venus, Men Mars world here. "You just don't understand" is frequently a universal sentiment though when someone doesn't support your opinion - teenagers are known to use it on occasion, too. :wink:
     
  9. B_Think_Kink

    B_Think_Kink New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    10,742
    Likes Received:
    17
    Gender:
    Female
    That was an amazing book!
     
  10. AllHazzardi

    AllHazzardi Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Messages:
    339
    Albums:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Palm Springs, California
    Well, this isn't just a "guy looking to solve problems with women", I've posed the inverse of this question to men within the relationship forum as well. I'm not looking for any particular answer, just occurrences within the general category of "You just don't understand", or other similar situations during arguments.
    There's certainly a language/communication barrier, but just saying that there is one does nothing to fix that problem. This question is along similar lines to Mars/Venus, yes, as I'm doing minor surveying and research in my spare time for something I have planned in the future.


    So please allow me to rephrase the question:

    What are some different things you'd like the opposite sex(or mate) to understand about your gender's society? Please explain anything you list.


    Note: There are of course always exceptions to a society, but I plan on covering those on a case-by-case basis at a later time.
     
  11. Runco

    Runco New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    London
    Your request for information is still too vague to elicit any real responses here. We would need a specific scenario in order to offer a specific response. May I suggest you start by reading the two books suggested in this thread by drdna and surfergirlCA? They are both very good when it comes to explaining the whole 'you don't understand' issue as well as why it occurs. Unless, of course, you can think of a specific scenario (i.e. a conversation) that you wish to outline for our consideration.
     
  12. AllHazzardi

    AllHazzardi Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Messages:
    339
    Albums:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Palm Springs, California
    That's because the request isn't for specific responses. You're looking a little too deeply into answering correctly or appropriately. I deliberately left it vague because I'm looking examples of various occurrences from the personal experiences of different individuals which fit within the general topic. Casting a wide net, so to speak. If I were to outline a specific scenario or conversation as you suggest, it would not be an example from direct experience, but instead a critique of said scenario. Surely you have something you can contribute, Runco. Any situation where a language or understanding barrier has presented itself, and an explanation of your point of view and the situation in which the barrier occurred falls under a usable response for my question.
     
  13. Runco

    Runco New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    London
    I don't think I do have anything useful to contribute here - sorry. It would take far too long to outline the situation and my thoughts - far more time (and energy) than I have to spare. My advice is read the books.

    Actually, I have come up with a couple of things. One is the age old chestnut - women hate it when men leave the toilet seat up. For men it isn't a big deal but for most women it is a pet hate, particularly if she is living with the man. Whole quarrels can spring out of that one toilet seat being left up. Men view it as just a toilet seat and what is the problem? Women will say you don't understand because they view it as men not considering their needs. A man can use a toilet sitting or standing. A woman has to sit. For us, the best position for a toilet seat to meet both our needs is the down position. Men don't think about things like that. In other words, a man is not thinking about his partner when he leaves the toilet seat up. He is only thinking about himself. There can be other examples of this sort of behaviour - a man who leaves his dirty clothes on the floor and then complains that he has nothing clean to wear; a man who doesn't clean the bath after he uses it; a man who performs various bodily functions in front of his woman; cutting nails and leaving the clippings lying around. And so on. Women go mad when men do things like this because 99% of the time a woman will not do this to a guy and they hate a) being taken for granted and b) the complete lack of consideration such actions indicate a man is giving his partner.

    Another is where guys stop trying to romance women. When guys want to go out with a woman, they will woo her with sweet words, take her out for meals, bring her flowers and all the rest of it. They will find all kinds of things to talk to her about. When they take her to bed the first few times, they will go out of their way to please her. When they have won the woman, all that goes out of the window. A guy will sometimes turn into a walrus and behave as though a woman should consider herself lucky that she has landed him. Meanwhile, the woman will be thinking 'what happened?'. Sex becomes perfunctory and primarily to please the man (rather than the woman who is sometimes left frustrated). Communication can become grunts (at best). Worse, guys start doing things like farting when their woman is in the room or not washing for days on end. It is like once they bag the woman their work is done! Most women will carry on grooming themselves, showering, dressing in nice clothes and wanting to cook nice things. When they don't get the same amount of effort from their mate, that leads to resentment and the whole 'you don't understand' messages.
     
    #13 Runco, Jul 23, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2008
  14. B_capslock

    B_capslock New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,038
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    rear view mirror!
    I don't... most of my problems is with my right hand.... kinda like an emotional carpel-tunnel!:biggrin1:
     
  15. SassySpy

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    1,277
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    23
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Seattle USA,
    Well, Hazz, I don't think the question too vague. Vagueness awakens my inner psychologist, anyway!:tongue:
    Actually, MarkL pretty much hit on my theory. Men offer solutions to the particular problem he thinks she is relating, when women are more likely to be 'sounding off' and want more commiserating type responses. When most women, and some men as well, talk with one another about problems, the dialogue is more likely to be very empathetic- and most come away feeling they have been heard, validated, understood. Thats part of the answer.
    The other part of my answer is based on my own personality, which means I don't utter "you don't understand". I find a way to make sure I am understood, so I know I have communicated adequately.
    I could give you the list you requested, too- but that again would really be based on my own personal experiences and knowledge, and not apply to a wider section of society.

    Glad you still stop by occasionally!:smile:
     
  16. Phil Ayesho

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    5,592
    Likes Received:
    880
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Diego
    This IS a perfect illustration of the "you just don't understand phenomenon..."

    What women don't seem to understand about the toilet seat issue is that men are NOT thinking of your needs while pissing. ( you should feel its a compliment that pissing does not bring you to our minds...)
    Men only think about one thing at a time... and are oblivious to all other concerns.

    If they are thinking about their job, the oil change on their car, or what they are going to do after pissing... that is all that is in there.
    Really.

    Leaving the seat up is NOT A MESSAGE. They are not showing a lack of concern for your feelings... they are not thinking about that at all.


    As I explained to my wife when she moved in.... I will try to learn to put the seat down... and with practice, I will get to the point where I do so 98% of the time...

    However... she should neither imagine that I am putting the seat down because I am thinking of her needs.... when I get to the point of reliably putting it down, it will be because I TRAINED myself to do it AUTOMATICALLY... without thinking about it at all.
    A LOT of what men do, they do as part of a routine... think of us like a trained Dog...we are not thinking about anything while performing our "trick" )

    That I endeavored to train myself to do this is thinking of her needs.... but doing it? That's just become a habit.

    So, please, gals, understand that men do not have the whirling blizzard of thoughts that form your mental landscape. Its all we can do to keep following those footprints to find that mammoth.



    Further on the issue of the toilet seat... its reflective of the different, and equally valid, perspectives of men and women.

    Women think EVERYBODY should ALWAYS consider the feelings of others... and ACT to accommodate other's needs....

    This is a powerful and laudable civilizing influence on society. Women drive human behavior toward the civil and compassionate.

    Men , on the other hand, take the view that , yes , wouldn't it be nice IF everybody actually DID those considerate things... HOWEVER...from the male perspective, if you rely entirely on others to watch out for YOUR ass... sooner or later , your ass is gonna get wet.

    To men... it seems astonishing that a woman could actually complain that she "fell in the toilet. AGAIN!"
    Falling in the toilet is something that has happend to every man.
    ONE TIME.

    And thereafter, we Learned that the toilet seat has the potential of being up... and we check... we watch out for our own ass.
    This perspective is not wrong... its good common sense and enhances survival to not entirely trust others to act in your best interest.


    But for the life of us we can not understand why women seem incapable of learning this simple fact of life... that the seat MIGHT be up... how hard is it to check your mirrors before throwing it in reverse?


    There isn't a woman in this country who would sit down on a park bench without scrutinizing the seat to ensure she didn't get anything icky on her CLOTHES...
    But for some reason when their ass is bare, they will blithely plunk down on a toilet without so much as a glance?

    Maybe what we need are toilets designed to look like a park bench.
     
    #16 Phil Ayesho, Aug 16, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2008
  17. SassySpy

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    1,277
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    23
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Seattle USA,
    Thankfully, toilet seat up or down has never been an issue in my house. I am a bit OCD, and germaphobic- (yeah I'm hard to live with but I don't expect anyone else to follow my example- I just do it) anyway- because I believe when one flushes the toilet, thousands of nasty things are expelled into the air with the water splash, etc- I have always shut the lid, therefore seat and lid are always down. I've never had a man complain, once I explain my reasoning, and if he forgets- I don't bitch, I just go close it. I'm just kinda weird about some things- :cool:
     
  18. Notaguru2

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,541
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Charleston, SC

    Nah, he confused the hell outta me too :p Being an atypical straight guy... I figured women out a long time ago =) The women I'm attracted to equally understand men!
     
Draft saved Draft deleted