Outrage over bonuses

[Pitbull]

So the Obama administration is outraged over the awarding of bonuses by AIG.

Well I'm outraged too.

I'm outraged by a government that wrote the check to AIG without any stipulations about the use of the money.
Outraged that our government, our representatives, our leaders are either
so stupid
so naive
so corrupt.
It has to be one, two or all of the above.
To just give them the money.
There is no other choice.

They expected a business to spend money the way they wanted to but expected that without and stipulation.

Now they are outraged.

And this is just the AIG outrage.

When do we get TARP outrage.
Passed quickly before the election to save the economy.
To provide junket money.
Spa Days
Christmas Bonuses
without oversight
without rules
And they don't have any tracking system
They don't know where the money is going.

Then there is stimulus outrage.
Coming soon to the political podium near you.
Outraged by those who passed and signed a 3/4 trillion spending plan they never read. Never debated.

And I know that technically the government either purchased a stake in AIG or loaned with some assets as security but it looks like the government could have struck a better deal. Next time the hell with government bureaucrats and lawyers negotiating - call the Mafia. They would have made an offer that AIG could not have refused.

I am outraged because this is my money.
Being given away by my government.
To people undeserving.

Democrats, Republicans, Bush, Obama, Paulson, Geithner
a very long list
of those deserving of condemnation.

If your son asks for money for school books.
DO NOT GIVE CASH!
Write a check payable to the bookstore.
Because between home and the bookstore
there is a tavern
and he will get tired
and thirsty
very thirsty.

AIG just had a very long drink.
And we paid for it.
Because we handed over cash.
Because our leaders are
so stupid
so naive
so corrupt.

 

[B_starinvestor]

A government

of the government
for the government
by the government

 

[canuck_pa]

The only thing those executives at AIG deserve is to have their ass kicked o the curb. Saying they can't stop the bonuses because of their contracts has to be bullshit.

In fact I think the government should make firing the executives as a condition to being given financial aid. And I mean in every company that needs financial help: banks, mortgage companies, auto makers and everyone else.

 

[B_starinvestor]

The only thing those executives at AIG deserve is to have their ass kicked o the curb. Saying they can't stop the bonuses because of their contracts has to be bullshit.

In fact I think the government should make firing the executives as a condition to being given financial aid. And I mean in every company that needs financial help: banks, mortgage companies, auto makers and everyone else.

Just playing Devil's Advocate....USBank was recently named one of the top 30 best run companies in America. Fair comp structure for execs, excellent customer ratings, conservative lending practices through the mortgage crisis, very little involvement in sub-prime lending, excellent benefits and employee training/education, very active in charity/community...etc.

They took TARP money. Their execs should be fired and kicked to the curb? Who do you suggest should be their replacements?

How do the execs explain to family/friends that they were ousted after practicing ethical and moral business and taking care of employees and customers throughout horrendous conditions? "Well, gov't said that wasn't good enough."

C'mon. You can't paint everyone with the same brush in this mess.

 

[rawbone8]

I wonder if it is contractually legal for the government to insist that all bonuses be paid out as AIG stock. Non redeemable for two years.

No cash. Taxes deferred until a later date.

That seems like a bonus that functions as both a carrot and a stick.

 

[houtx48]

as AIG stock. Non redeemable for two years............... seems fair, if the douche's are such great business men they should jump at it.

 

[tripod]

What is with you right wingers anyway? As right wingers you are all honorary members of the "investor class" regardless of whether you invest in the market or not.

The average person (non investor class) in this country did not want to bail out one fucking company. But the "investor class" told us common people that if we didn't bail out these corporations that we would see the economy ripped to shreds as a result of letting them die.

All of the supposed experts in the financial world were screaming and jumping up and down threatening a worldwide depression if we didn't bail these companies out. It was all over the news... douchebag financial experts would be trotted out and allowed to spew their bullshit drivel about how we need to have a socialized banking system or we would all be living in cardboard boxes.

And nobody was a bigger champion of the bank bailouts then the fucking right wingers... you bitched, moaned and groaned about how the bailouts were absolutely necessary.

and now you guys wanna complain and blame the Obama administration when these asshole corporations act like the douchebags that they are.

You hypocritical fucks... it is the exactly the "investor class" that is to blame for the state of our economy, they are all a bunch of crooks. The media's financial advisors and so called experts are akin to having the wolves watching the hen house.

The investor class is a kind of people who think that it is their right (because they are smarter and craftier then the average person) that they can earn money without working for it.

Biggest assholes on the planet.

 

[Pitbull]

Do you even care to read what I wrote?
Do you even desire to wright something sensible? EVER?
What the fuck makes you think I don't work for a living?

Spew your asinine Marxist drivel as much as you want.
There were a lot of people you would call "on the right" that have wanted none of this.
But I guess you don't want to listen to someone that might shatter the stereotypes you have.

Wake up.
Mr. Change is driving the economy down the same road as Mr. Bush.
Lies I don't believe in although you have feasted on them.
Obama voted for TARP along with 3/4 of the senate.
Geithner was an architect of the AIG bailout.
Obama had to have that stimulus passed immediately and the democratic congress went right along.
Nobody read it - including Obama.
He signed it.
Everyone knew without reading it that it was packed with pork.
Obama lied to us.
He is a politicians - they lie to get elected.

I will admit if the president were a Republican and congress was controlled by Republicans the result might have been identical.
But I am not in love with Obama or Bush or the democratic party or republican party so I can admit these things.

And as far as investor class crap you are talking about -
Unless you have no money and no income and are a
total parasite living off society
you are being screwed economically - royally.
But you seem to be enjoying it because now it is Obama doing the screwing instead of Bush.

What is with you right wingers anyway? As right wingers you are all honorary members of the "investor class" regardless of whether you invest in the market or not.

The average person (non investor class) in this country did not want to bail out one fucking company. But the "investor class" told us common people that if we didn't bail out these corporations that we would see the economy ripped to shreds as a result of letting them die.

All of the supposed experts in the financial world were screaming and jumping up and down threatening a worldwide depression if we didn't bail these companies out. It was all over the news... douchebag financial experts would be trotted out and allowed to spew their bullshit drivel about how we need to have a socialized banking system or we would all be living in cardboard boxes.

And nobody was a bigger champion of the bank bailouts then the fucking right wingers... you bitched, moaned and groaned about how the bailouts were absolutely necessary.

and now you guys wanna complain and blame the Obama administration when these asshole corporations act like the douchebags that they are.

You hypocritical fucks... it is the exactly the "investor class" that is to blame for the state of our economy, they are all a bunch of crooks. The media's financial advisors and so called experts are akin to having the wolves watching the hen house.

The investor class is a kind of people who think that it is their right (because they are smarter and craftier then the average person) that they can earn money without working for it.

Biggest assholes on the planet.

 

[Jason]

We're having much the same debate in the UK, only we are talking about RBS not AIG.

In the UK it is hard to see it as anything other than a media circus promoted by a government that is keen for people to get worked up about anything except what the government has done. We're focusing on one banker's pension of £700,000 pa. People can just about comprehend £700,000. Basically every week he gets three times what a single person on a state pension gets in a year (around £5000 pa). It is huge, but we can just about comprehend this.

What we can't comprehend is a loss of £30,000,000,000 by RBS. Or the even bigger sums of money our government is creating through quantitative easing (printing money). Or the amazing sums the government is putting into a raft of spend now pay later policies.

All the time we in the UK fill our newspapers with worries about the hundreds of thousands of pounds that an RBS former boss gets we don't think about the hundreds of billions our government is spending. The difference is six noughts. It is as if someone is doing something totally outrageous with £1,000,000 and all the media and the public can do is worry about the spending of £1.

The RBS former boss shouldn't be getting his enormous pension. AIG guys probably shouldn't be getting their bonuses. But in view of the enormous figures in the UK and the US it is less than small change - it scarcely registers. All the time we are getting worked up about this we are missing the big picture.

In the UK the Governor of the Bank of England has made a formal warning that Britain risks bankruptcy and therefore needing help from the IMF. This prospect is what we should be worrying about, but the media acts as if dumb. It makes a better tabloid headline to get worked up about some individual who has done very nicely out of the mess rather than to confront the real problems. I imagine the position is comparable in the US.

 

[tripod]

Do you even care to read what I wrote?
Do you even desire to wright something sensible? EVER?
What the fuck makes you think I don't work for a living?

I do read what you write Pitbull... maybe I need to re-read it again? I am most definitely sure that you have a job and work for a living... did I say that you didn't? Forgive me if I was unclear.

Spew your asinine Marxist drivel as much as you want.
There were a lot of people you would call "on the right" that have wanted none of this.
But I guess you don't want to listen to someone that might shatter the stereotypes you have.

Stereotypes need shattering and I would like nothing more then to believe that you were against the financial bailouts.

The whole problem with this is it is all of the assholes at the Wall Street Journal, CNBC, and all of the major news outlets were listening to the FINANCIAL EXPERTS that told America that we HAD to bail out Wall Street.

Those same financial experts were the same people that led the country to fiscal disaster during the last twenty years.

The Republicans and conservatives were the major driving forces behind the bailout, you can't rewrite history. The Democrats, responding to accusations of Marxism, caved in to the financial experts and gave the "INVESTOR CLASS" exactly what they wanted.

Do they not remember Wall Street holding the countries financial future hostage with cries of impending doom if we do not bail these corporations out?

I do and I specifically remember every single right winger on this board being in favor of the bailout.

Now they wanna be all hypocritical and bitch about this like it is fucking Obama's fault. Total bullshit. Obama was doing the will of the people who were scared to death by Wall Street and the "investment class".

Blame the "financial experts": FOX News, CNBC, The Wall Street Journal and the media in general.

The only news outlets that weren't buying Wall Street's deception and cries of "the sky is falling!" were the ULTRA liberal news outlets like Mother Jones, Democracy Now, The Dialy Kos etc.

Note: I just reread your post and I found it to be much more balanced then when I read it earlier... you seemed to blame most everyone and pulled no punches. I edited some "you"s to "they" to not wrongly implicate you in my argument.

 

[Flashy]

We're having much the same debate in the UK, only we are talking about RBS not AIG.

In the UK it is hard to see it as anything other than a media circus promoted by a government that is keen for people to get worked up about anything except what the government has done. We're focusing on one banker's pension of £700,000 pa. People can just about comprehend £700,000. Basically every week he gets three times what a single person on a state pension gets in a year (around £5000 pa). It is huge, but we can just about comprehend this.

What we can't comprehend is a loss of £30,000,000,000 by RBS. Or the even bigger sums of money our government is creating through quantitative easing (printing money). Or the amazing sums the government is putting into a raft of spend now pay later policies.

All the time we in the UK fill our newspapers with worries about the hundreds of thousands of pounds that an RBS former boss gets we don't think about the hundreds of billions our government is spending. The difference is six noughts. It is as if someone is doing something totally outrageous with £1,000,000 and all the media and the public can do is worry about the spending of £1.

The RBS former boss shouldn't be getting his enormous pension. AIG guys probably shouldn't be getting their bonuses. But in view of the enormous figures in the UK and the US it is less than small change - it scarcely registers. All the time we are getting worked up about this we are missing the big picture.

In the UK the Governor of the Bank of England has made a formal warning that Britain risks bankruptcy and therefore needing help from the IMF. This prospect is what we should be worrying about, but the media acts as if dumb. It makes a better tabloid headline to get worked up about some individual who has done very nicely out of the mess rather than to confront the real problems. I imagine the position is comparable in the US.

very well said jason.

the constant whining about 160 million dollars, conveniently deflects the blame from the politicians of all persuasions whose shortsighted and pathetic policies led to the company needing 160 billion for the bailout. Imagine if they got as worked up over proper regulations and bills, as they do over .1% of the bailout money being given as a bonus.

these people are a a disgrace. Republicans and Democrats alike

 

[canuck_pa]

Starinvestor, I don't think you completely read my comments or perhaps you misunderstood.

I said companies that need financial help. If USBank didn't need financial assistance the executives wouldn't need to be canned. As far as who would replace the canned executives, I'm confident there are enough competent people to replace them. If there isn't we have a lot more to worry about.

 

[BiItalianBro]

I love Sen. Chuck Grassley's comment about AIG execs & suicide lol. WOW...talk about slip of the tongue!!!

I hope the Age of Entitlement will lead to an Age of Enlightenment...but I doubt it :-/

 

[Novaboy]

Are bonuses not supposed to be earned for a job well done? Or are they just ways to hide huge salaries?

 

[Notaguru2]

Fool me once, shame on you. Let AIG burn to the fucking ground and I don't care what the cost is to our economy. AIG IS ANTI-AMERICAN. It blows me away how bad Bush continues to haunt this country... he utterly destroyed us. I'm beginning to think HE'S the terrorist.

 

[B_starinvestor]

Fool me once, shame on you. Let AIG burn to the fucking ground and I don't care what the cost is to our economy. AIG IS ANTI-AMERICAN. It blows me away how bad Bush continues to haunt this country... he utterly destroyed us. I'm beginning to think HE'S the terrorist.

Note...you do know that Obama/Geithner have been pumping money into AIG, right?

 

[Penis Aficionado]

Have to admit Obama looks weak, weak, weak. Jimmy Carter weak.

W, as president, came right out and said that he had the power, all by himself, to pick anyone he wanted off the street and put that person in jail for the rest of his life -- no lawyer, no trial, no charges -- because he, W, thought that person might be a terrorist. And no one had the balls to challenge him on this.

And Obama would have us believe that he can't get on the phone with these AIG people and tell them, "Guess what! You're going to give back your bonus. Because if you don't, the President of the United States of Fucking America is going to make your life miserable."

I am so sick of hearing Obama say, "We will explore every *legal* option for getting this money back." He needs to remember what Nixon said to Frost: "If the President does it, it's not illegal!"

 

[B_Nick4444]

Have to admit Obama looks weak, weak, weak. Jimmy Carter weak.

yup! :yup:

 

[VeeP]

Note...you do know that Obama/Geithner have been pumping money into AIG, right?

Not to mention in a former life as head of the NY Fed Tim 'TurboTax' Geithner was involved in bailing out AIG right alongside Paulson and the other Bush 'evil doers'...

 

[deleted15807]

The Republicans and conservatives were the major driving forces behind the bailout, you can't rewrite history.

Oh yes they can rewrite history. The DEPEND on it. Down the memory hole.

Fool me once, shame on you. Let AIG burn to the fucking ground and I don't care what the cost is to our economy. AIG IS ANTI-AMERICAN. It blows me away how bad Bush continues to haunt this country... he utterly destroyed us. I'm beginning to think HE'S the terrorist.

bin Laden could not have done a better job than running the country off the cliff as Bush/Cheney and the neo con criminals walking the streets. bin Laden I'm sure if he could vote would have voted for Bush.

Experts agree Bush is a pig
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