Outrage over bonuses

Pitbull

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Reply in RED

I do read what you write Pitbull... maybe I need to re-read it again? I am most definitely sure that you have a job and work for a living... did I say that you didn't? Forgive me if I was unclear.
Thank you



Stereotypes need shattering and I would like nothing more then to believe that you were against the financial bailouts. I was and still am.

The whole problem with this is it is all of the assholes at the Wall Street Journal, CNBC, and all of the major news outlets were listening to the FINANCIAL EXPERTS that told America that we HAD to bail out Wall Street.
There are plenty of people on both sides. Unfortunately "expert" credentials have been granted to a few. They must look good in front of a camera

Those same financial experts were the same people that led the country to fiscal disaster during the last twenty years. But they still look good in front of a camera

The Republicans and conservatives were the major driving forces behind the bailout, you can't rewrite history. The Democrats, responding to accusations of Marxism, caved in to the financial experts and gave the "INVESTOR CLASS" exactly what they wanted. Disagree. I view this episode of one of the few instances of bipartisan actions in maybe the past 5 years
before that - 9/11 response leading to action in Afghanistan) But I would characterize it as either bipartisan insanity or bipartisan thievery)

Do they not remember Wall Street holding the countries financial future hostage with cries of impending doom if we do not bail these corporations out?

I do and I specifically remember every single right winger on this board being in favor of the bailout. Either this link does not count or you don't have me in the right winger category.
http://www.lpsg.org/104655-no-bailout-explained.html#post1734631
which may be the only time NewEnd and I agreed on anything.
And it looks like RipsRips was against and I would think you would call someone with a Impeach Obama avitar right wing.

And this one too:
http://www.lpsg.org/104532-you-can-blame-democrats-one-3.html#post1732968


Now they wanna be all hypocritical and bitch about this like it is fucking Obama's fault. Total bullshit. Obama was doing the will of the people who were scared to death by Wall Street and the "investment class".
Don't believe he is doing the will of the people.
And his bad economy talk has scared wall street and main street.

Blame the "financial experts": FOX News, CNBC, The Wall Street Journal and the media in general. More then them

The only news outlets that weren't buying Wall Street's deception and cries of "the sky is falling!" were the ULTRA liberal news outlets like Mother Jones, Democracy Now, The Dialy Kos etc.
Wrong wrong wrong.
I guess you don't listen to Talk Radio on the right side of your dial.
They were all against it and still are.
AIG bailout happened so fast that many didn't react and it was over.
We also purchased AIG (funny how we own it but don't have shit to say on how it is run) which is different from a lot of the other bailouts.
Also that one wasn't full of pork if I remember correctly.

Note: I just reread your post and I found it to be much more balanced then when I read it earlier... you seemed to blame most everyone and pulled no punches. I edited some "you"s to "they" to not wrongly implicate you in my argument.
Thanks again.

There is a lot of opposition to all these bailouts on the right. And I would think that most of those on the board who you think of as right wingers would be against it for a lot of reasons.

I talk to a lot of people and I am sure most do not agree with me on most things but we are all just shaking our heads with this bailout.
Part of the problem - it is being pushed through - FAST!
In the fall by Paulson & Bush
Now by Geithner & Obama.
Democrats and Republicans together in the fall.
Republicans - needing to be different from the democrats in some way - not joining in now.
(Republicans meaning elected Republicans)

I do not subscribe to conspiracy theories - but if this crap keeps up I may have no choice.

I am against the bailouts for many reasons. From the beginning and to this day. Here are few simple reasons why.

First - the government is supposed to govern and regulate commerce
Not engage and meddle in commerce. Not rescue failing companies.
Second - Not enough time and thought was spent.
I spend more time researching if I'm buying a new refrigerator then was spend on these bailouts
Third - No structure for monitoring
Fourth - Pork Pork Pork
 

B_thickjohnny

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Interesting about the contract issue. I use to work for the FDIC on a team that closed banks (in the early 90s). We would walk in and immediately the President was fired and most of the upper exec management as well. That was then, this is now. Why so different? People are right to outraged. There should have been clear stipulation but instead they received a blank check.
 

Flashy

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Fool me once, shame on you. Let AIG burn to the fucking ground and I don't care what the cost is to our economy. AIG IS ANTI-AMERICAN. It blows me away how bad Bush continues to haunt this country... he utterly destroyed us. I'm beginning to think HE'S the terrorist.


Just FYI, before you go all Bush crazy, perhaps you should examine more closely who AIG donated the most money to in the 2008 election cycle

the vast majority of money (over 650,000) was given by AIG to democrats last year (around 75%)

these are only the over $5,000 donations


Name Office Total Contributions Dodd, Chris (D-CT) Senate $103,100 Obama, Barack (D-IL) Senate $101,332 McCain, John (R-AZ) Senate $59,499 Clinton, Hillary (D-NY) Senate $35,965 Baucus, Max (D-MT) Senate $24,750 Romney, Mitt (R) Pres $20,850 Biden, Joseph R Jr (D-DE) Senate $19,975 Larson, John B (D-CT) House $19,750 Sununu, John E (R-NH) Senate $18,500 Giuliani, Rudolph W (R) Pres $13,200 Kanjorski, Paul E (D-PA) House $12,000 Durbin, Dick (D-IL) Senate $11,000 Perlmutter, Edwin G (D-CO) House $10,500 Rangel, Charles B (D-NY) House $9,000 Edwards, John (D) Pres $7,850 Corker, Bob (R-TN) Senate $7,400 Smith, Chris (R-NJ) House $6,900 Neal, Richard E (D-MA) House $6,500 Rockefeller, Jay (D-WV) Senate $6,500 Reed, Jack (D-RI) Senate $6,000 Udall, Mark (D-CO) House $5,800 Maffei, Dan (D-NY) House $5,000 Nelson, Bill (D-FL) Senate $5,000 Warner, Mark (D-VA) Senate $5,000
 

houtx48

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i think you will find that is the case with all companies and their political donations, it's called buying the ear of the party in power. stop with the drama queen bs .......tell us again what a fine company AIG is.
 

Flashy

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i think you will find that is the case with all companies and their political donations, it's called buying the ear of the party in power. stop with the drama queen bs .......tell us again what a fine company AIG is.

funny...because Obama was not "in power" when the AIG donations were made.

also, they gave the majority to Democrats in the last two cycles before that, before they got into power...so they were hardly "buying the ear of the party in power" were they? 2006 (56% to 42%) and 2004 (55% to 45%), when the dems were not the majority. Chris Dodd (D) has been their pointman in the senate for the last 6 years or so, for the obvious reasons.



maybe you should try examining facts instead of cursing wildly and providing no basis of intelligence for you little comments.

and yes, i will tell you again, that AIG is and was an exceptionally fine company, unless of course you can manage to blame 116,000 decent hard-working people who managed to make it profitable for the better part of three decades in their core businesses, for the behavior of the derivatives arm in London.

you know absolutely nothing.
 

houtx48

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i know that the americian taxpayer is throwing money at aig hand over fist and will never get it back. if they were so smart why did they let SMALL division sink the company?...... every company in the united states knew the republicans day had come to an end so they just put their money where they needed to.
 

houtx48

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while bitchin about the bonuses makes good press the real problem is the 170b that the government has handed over no questions asked
 

Flashy

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i know that the americian taxpayer is throwing money at aig hand over fist and will never get it back. if they were so smart why did they let SMALL division sink the company?...... every company in the united states knew the republicans day had come to an end so they just put their money where they needed to.

then why were they (AIG) donating the majority of their contributions in 2004 to the Democrats, when they were in total disarray?

They did not "let" the small division sink the company. Most executives do not have a clue how derivatives trading works and know little about what goes on in those firms. The same thing happened when Barings Bank was sunk by Nick Leeson in 2005 because he was trading out of control options at their branch in Singapore, and hiding the losses. BArings had managed to be in business for 233 years and was the oldest merchant bank in England, and nobody had a clue anything was wrong.
 

Flashy

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and this is how they run a good company?

you are a complete idiot.

AIG was one of the best run companies around.

you cannot seem to grasp that it was the *DERIVATIVES UNIT* in London that did this.

the average person, selling insurance policies, leasing aircraft and working hard in their thousands of branches and core businesses, had *NOTHING* to do with this.
 

tripod

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you are a complete idiot.

AIG was one of the best run companies around.

you cannot seem to grasp that it was the *DERIVATIVES UNIT* in London that did this.

the average person, selling insurance policies, leasing aircraft and working hard in their thousands of branches and core businesses, had *NOTHING* to do with this.

So does the derivatives unit need to be split off and separately incorporated from the rest of the company? Do you think the bonuses should not be returned (I don't see how we can get them back)? Are employees of the derivatives unit in London getting bonuses?
 

Flashy

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So does the derivatives unit need to be split off and separately incorporated from the rest of the company? Do you think the bonuses should not be returned (I don't see how we can get them back)? Are employees of the derivatives unit in London getting bonuses?

it doesn't really matter, the damage is done.

I don't think they should have received the bonuses in the first place.

most of the people that were getting the bonuses were from the derviatives unit, and 52 of the 73 of them are no longer with the firm anyway when getting their bonuses
 

B_New End

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So the Obama administration is outraged over the awarding of bonuses by AIG.

Well I'm outraged too.

I'm outraged by a government that wrote the check to AIG without any stipulations about the use of the money.
Outraged that our government, our representatives, our leaders are either
so stupid
so naive
so corrupt.
It has to be one, two or all of the above.
To just give them the money.
There is no other choice.

They expected a business to spend money the way they wanted to but expected that without and stipulation.

Now they are outraged.

And this is just the AIG outrage.

When do we get TARP outrage.
Passed quickly before the election to save the economy.
To provide junket money.
Spa Days
Christmas Bonuses
without oversight
without rules
And they don't have any tracking system
They don't know where the money is going.

Then there is stimulus outrage.
Coming soon to the political podium near you.
Outraged by those who passed and signed a 3/4 trillion spending plan they never read. Never debated.

And I know that technically the government either purchased a stake in AIG or loaned with some assets as security but it looks like the government could have struck a better deal. Next time the hell with government bureaucrats and lawyers negotiating - call the Mafia. They would have made an offer that AIG could not have refused.

I am outraged because this is my money.
Being given away by my government.
To people undeserving.

Democrats, Republicans, Bush, Obama, Paulson, Geithner
a very long list
of those deserving of condemnation.

If your son asks for money for school books.
DO NOT GIVE CASH!
Write a check payable to the bookstore.
Because between home and the bookstore
there is a tavern
and he will get tired
and thirsty
very thirsty.

AIG just had a very long drink.
And we paid for it.
Because we handed over cash.
Because our leaders are
so stupid
so naive
so corrupt.

Ah, welcome to the light son. They all deserve to be burned at the fucking stake!!!


:mad::mad::mad:
 

Flashy

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I love this quote on the topic of the AIG Bonuses


Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., scoffed at AIG's claim that the money represents retention pay. "There are enough bright people in this country that would do the job for an honest salary, and enough honest taxpayers demanding that we put an end to this stuff. You can bet I'll make sure justice is served,"



Max Baucus has received $90,000 over the past few years from AIG.

LOL
 

Flashy

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What for? Was it another Bone-Ass? Do only the democrats get these Bone-Ass's from AIG?

no, campaign contributions from AIG PAC or individuals to members of congress or presidency or candidates for those offices. :biggrin1:
 

Pitbull

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Ah, welcome to the light son. They all deserve to be burned at the fucking stake!!!
:mad::mad::mad:


Either this link does not count or you don't have me in the right winger category.
http://www.lpsg.org/104655-no-bailout-explained.html#post1734631
which may be the only time NewEnd and I agreed on anything.

New End - We are agreeing again :eek::confused:
I don't know if I'm worried more about you or me because of this.

It is not that I'm seeing the light. I've pretty much felt this way for YEARS.
Maybe you are just starting to understand that I'm not a retard.

The problem here is we have a combination of a company that is too big and a government that is too big.
Early in our history there was never a company so big that if it failed the world economy would collapse. AIG is such a company if we can believe what is told to us and of all the crap and lies this is one I do believe from what I know.
Also in our history as far as I know (and if I'm wrong I would welcome correction) until the Chrysler bailout of the early 80's I don't think our government would have bailed out any large failing company.

The worst part about this (and there is a lot of bad so finding the worst is not easy) is not that we are paying for a bailout but that the bailout was put together over a few days without any debate and without much thought and not any oversight.
Then we hear more of the same shit again and again.

Our $150 Billion bailout of AIG wasn't enough
We need $700 billion to bail out banks (TARP)
We need $25 billion to bailout automakers
We need $750 Billion Economic Stimulus Package
Oops AIG needs another $30 Billion

They keep adding to the handouts and they do it in the same rushed slip shod way.

(In the interest of full disclosure $70 Billion to AIG is to come from the $700 billion bank bailout money -Tarp)

They just sign the checks and

no one reads the fine print.

NO ONE READS THE LARGE PRINT EITHER.

We should be writing the print. And it seems that we are but with no thought and loopholes big enough to drive a fleet of trucks filled with billions of dollars through.

And for the latest outrage about the bonuses. Maybe they should have learned to keep their eyes on AIG in November when this happened -
After Bailout, AIG Executives Head to Resort - Live Coverage -

Congress is not responsive because we keep reelecting them.
So the blame is on us (or at least those of us who voted for those elected)
(Can't remember the last time a Senator or Representative candidate I voted for was actually elected)

They do not feel any duty to protect the interests of American citizens.
I agree - time to make them pay.
Recalls for all in congress!
Is that right wing enough for you or do I need to order 435 stakes a lot of rope and matches to qualify?
 

B_New End

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New End - We are agreeing again :eek::confused:
I don't know if I'm worried more about you or me because of this.

It is not that I'm seeing the light. I've pretty much felt this way for YEARS.
Maybe you are just starting to understand that I'm not a retard.

The problem here is we have a combination of a company that is too big and a government that is too big.
Early in our history there was never a company so big that if it failed the world economy would collapse. AIG is such a company if we can believe what is told to us and of all the crap and lies this is one I do believe from what I know.
Also in our history as far as I know (and if I'm wrong I would welcome correction) until the Chrysler bailout of the early 80's I don't think our government would have bailed out any large failing company.

The worst part about this (and there is a lot of bad so finding the worst is not easy) is not that we are paying for a bailout but that the bailout was put together over a few days without any debate and without much thought and not any oversight.
Then we hear more of the same shit again and again.

Our $150 Billion bailout of AIG wasn't enough
We need $700 billion to bail out banks (TARP)
We need $25 billion to bailout automakers
We need $750 Billion Economic Stimulus Package
Oops AIG needs another $30 Billion

They keep adding to the handouts and they do it in the same rushed slip shod way.

(In the interest of full disclosure $70 Billion to AIG is to come from the $700 billion bank bailout money -Tarp)

They just sign the checks and

no one reads the fine print.

NO ONE READS THE LARGE PRINT EITHER.

We should be writing the print. And it seems that we are but with no thought and loopholes big enough to drive a fleet of trucks filled with billions of dollars through.

And for the latest outrage about the bonuses. Maybe they should have learned to keep their eyes on AIG in November when this happened -
After Bailout, AIG Executives Head to Resort - Live Coverage -

Congress is not responsive because we keep reelecting them.
So the blame is on us (or at least those of us who voted for those elected)
(Can't remember the last time a Senator or Representative candidate I voted for was actually elected)

They do not feel any duty to protect the interests of American citizens.
I agree - time to make them pay.
Recalls for all in congress!
Is that right wing enough for you or do I need to order 435 stakes a lot of rope and matches to qualify?

If we are agreeing it is because A: we are not talking about Iraq or B: you stopped trying to solely blame the Democrats for this mess. I have hated these bailouts from day 1. And I don't believe for one second they have done anything but made things much worse.