Paedophile allegations against conservative politicians

dandelion

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A strange thing happend today. the prime minister, david cameron was ambushed on a chat show when the interviewer presented him with a list of six names of conservative politicians about whom rumours of paedophile activity are apparently widely available on the internet.

I have no idea whether these are true, but they follow recent publicity over the lifetime activity of Jimmy Saville, recently deceased. After his death many people have come forward to say they were abused by him. The spirit of openness and encouragement to come forward has brought some others forward, complaining about different abusers. In particular we now have a reopening of a case involving a ring frankly of pimps at a local authority childrens home, which supposedly was dealt with some years ago. yet now people have come forward saying they gave evidence about abusers apart form those working in the childrens homes, but nothing was ever done. in particular an accusation was made about a local conservative MP.

One of the most shocking parts of this affair was that the local authority was tipped off that something was happening and investigated. They produced a report about what was happening. Then, after being told that their insurers would refuse cover if the authority supplied information to anyone who then made a claim, they tried to destroy all copies. Better to let it continue, obviously. But that isnt the issue now, I just wanted to rant about it.

Now apparently there is a list of six names and a copy was handed to Mr cameron on live TV. His reaction was to say he did not think anyone should be starting a witch hunt against gay people because of these allegation.

Ye what? Why does he associate gay with paedophile? I'm not amused.
 

Perados

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its interesting...
No matter if its a sex-, black mail-, sex-, illegal income- , sex-, corruption-, sex- or abuse-scandal... Did i named sex-scandal?
Its very often a person out of the "conservative" part of your sociaties. - but mainly, when its about sex



I have heared about saville. A verry verry bad story...
Should these latest rumours about the politicans be true, i hope that the saville-case will have at least one good thing. - let a clearing fire run across the country, finde all these bastards and let them get their punishments


I dont know why he assosiate gay and paedophile... But the same bais also exist in germany.
 
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rbkwp

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Interesting?

Certainly not unbelievable, anything is possible, in any Country

Head of a supposed Christian Party in NZ was Jailed for such.

Wiki Graham Capill

They produced a report about what was happening. Then, after being told that their insurers would refuse cover if the authority supplied information to anyone who then made a claim, they tried to destroy all copies. Better to let it continue, obviously

Personal and maybe unrelated to the topic, but one of the reasons i gave up ALL my Insurances at aged mid 20s, was because i never trusted them damn Insurance Co's
biggest Rouges ever along with many Corporates.
 
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Drifterwood

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I live in North Wales. I know the Police who investigated this.

I am not prepared to name names, but I can assure you that the names I have heard are not limited to Conservatives. Don't think that you will make political capital out of this. People of all denominations abuse their feeling of power.

Other members will remember how angry I am over this issue generally.
 
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By the same token, anyone found guilty of falsely alleging, knowingly supporting or spreading rumor of false allegations against persons, should be dealt the harshest penalties possible.
 

dandelion

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I dont believe the guy in wales who appeared on TV making allegations that evidence had been ignored would still be doing it after all this time unless he had truth on his side. Every abuse charge ever involved a coverup.
 

Jason

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The chat show ambush was wrong.

Of course the rumours have to be investigated. But the chat show ambush actually prejudiced any future conviction if any of them are guilty. The Internet is working overtime to come up with a list of six names which the media will get hold of and probably publish. It is then going to be reasonable for anyone accused to advance the argument that they cannot get a fair trial.

The rumour is that the six names are six openly gay conservative MPs. The possibility has to be considered that the rumours have been started by homophobes to further a homophobic agenda, basically gay=paedophile - and yes there is a political dimension also.

Correct action by the chat show would be to present whatever evidence they have to the police. Their action has increased the chance that if any of these are paedophiles they cannot be tried, while at the same time promoting homophobia. Cameron was ambushed and had no preparation whatsoever but I think his answer was broadly correct. The only reason for presenting Cameron with a list was as a political stunt. The ambush shows contempt for the victims of paedophilia and stirs up gay hatred. I guess it is not practical to prosecute the chat show, but I think in an ideal world they should be prosecuted. They are nasty individuals in a nasty company.
 

Jason

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I dont know why he assosiate gay and paedophile... But the same bais also exist in germany.

Cameron doesn't - but the Internet rumour does.

Not a great number of Conservative MPs (or any MPs) have come out as openly gay. And I think we can now see why. An Internet rumour has associated gay with paedophile, and a nasty television show has chosen to move this rumour into the mainstream.

The message is simple - if you are gay in the UK, stay safe in the closet.
 

Drifterwood

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I do not know why it was happening, but I would describe what was going on as a rent boy service for the "establishment" in the 1970's and 1980's from young people who were supposed to be in the care of the State.

I am also concerned as to why or what stopped this type of abuse. In other words, is this still happening.
 
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I'm alarmed by the amount of finger-pointing going on at the moment.

The Savile case is horrendous, but I think it's in danger of snowballing out of control. What Schofield did was stupid and cheap - although I'm not surprised. Taking gossip and accepting it as true is reckless and can ruin people's lives (I know lives have been ruined already - but persecuting people without evidence isn't going to help). Presumably if the camera did catch any of those names, there'll be repercussions for ITV.

Cameron, imo, handled it very well. I'm glad he didn't buy into it at all. Yes, things do need to be investigated, but having some sort of mob justice where loads of names are tossed into a hat, is just ridiculous.

He seemed to indicate some of the rumours were based on MPs trying to cover up their sexuality years ago - but that they've now been accused of paedophilia as the whole thing gets a bit out of control.

I'm also genuinely horrified by the culture of abuse tolerated in institutions over so many years. I definitely agree a wide-ranging inquiry needs to get to the bottom of it, and leave no stone unturned. But... having an internet free-for-all with everyone pointing the finger just seems like a recipe for disaster.
 
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By the same token, anyone found guilty of falsely alleging, knowingly supporting or spreading rumor of false allegations against persons, should be dealt the harshest penalties possible.
Yes.

I do not know why it was happening, but I would describe what was going on as a rent boy service for the "establishment" in the 1970's and 1980's from young people who were supposed to be in the care of the State.

I am also concerned as to why or what stopped this type of abuse. In other words, is this still happening.
The systematic abuse that seems to have been prevalent in children's homes, care homes - and the whole catholic priest abuse thing (and a blind eye turned to it all) is horrifying.

But... I'm also worried about the current hysteria leading to blaming anybody and everybody. I guess there are ways to get to the bottom of it, and get some sort of justice and reparation for the victims (and to stop it from happening in future). I just think an internet rampage isn't the way to do it. :/
 

Perados

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Cameron doesn't - but the Internet rumour does.

Not a great number of Conservative MPs (or any MPs) have come out as openly gay. And I think we can now see why. An Internet rumour has associated gay with paedophile, and a nasty television show has chosen to move this rumour into the mainstream.

The message is simple - if you are gay in the UK, stay safe in the closet.
Already got it by your first - but thanks

But thats not just a british problem and defenetly not one that just exist in the internet. This connection of gay = paedophile is quite popular



Quite interesting, a few years back germany had a similare problem of child abuse. Not with know people, but many orphens have been abused in german child's homes, doring the 1960 and 1970. By this scandal it also came up that a lot of catholic priest abused children till the late 1990's...

The question is, why does it suddently stoped in the early 80's (orphens) and late 90's (catholic)?

In case of the children's homes, i would say; it really stoped, cause the employees have changed. They are way better educated. - past WW2 germany had to take what we could get and the abuse was the result.
Also, the abused children would have been also old enough to talk about, if it would have happened also in the 80's or 90's.

And thats the difference to the catholic abuse. I would say, it just stoped in the late 90's cause the abused children arent old enough to talk about... It still happens, cause the same kind of people wanna become priest (i defenetly dont wanna say all priest are paedophile)
 
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dandelion

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The chat show ambush was wrong.
No, it wasnt. It was exactly correct. We dont need extra laws to deal with this, we need publicity. We need to be able to talk openly. To say in public, I accuse...so and so.

we do not need an overreaction that because someone has been accused they must be guilty, we do need to be able to examine the accusation cleral, openly and in public. That is the only way people will be willing to talk and that we can find the truth.

the chat show ambush actually prejudiced any future conviction if any of them are guilty.
Then the law needs to be changed. The public MUST be allowed to talk freely about what happens in society. This legally sanctioned coverup is soooo wrong.

The Internet is working overtime to come up with a list of six names which the media will get hold of and probably publish.
Someone out there knows the truth, By the sound of it they already told the police and nothing happened.

The rumour is that the six names are six openly gay conservative MPs. The possibility has to be considered that the rumours have been started by homophobes to further a homophobic agenda, basically gay=paedophile - and yes there is a political dimension also.
The prime minister introduced the association of gay=paedophile on national TV! He was either incredibly stupid or did it quite deliberately to divert attention from paedophiles. Which option makes him qualified to be PM?

Correct action by the chat show would be to present whatever evidence they have to the police.
No. Absolutely not. If I had to choose between someone quietly carrying on their paedophile activities or being named and disgraced, its quite obvious what any right thinking person should do. The question put to the PM was why had nothing been done. The journalist didnt name the people, he asked why the authorities had done nothing when they already have this information.

I definitely agree a wide-ranging inquiry needs to get to the bottom of it, and leave no stone unturned. But... having an internet free-for-all with everyone pointing the finger just seems like a recipe for disaster.
Oh yes? We did have a public inquiry! This is exactly like Hillsborough where now we have finally got to the stage of contemplating criminal charges against the police...starting from newspaper headlines that the crowd had rioted! The coverup in the paedophile case just goes on and on and on. The ONLY way to deal with it is publicity.
 

Jason

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The names on the piece of paper passed to Cameron were visible on screen because of what the programme has called "an unfortunate camera angle" for which they have apologised. The programme has accused this six of being paedophiles as effectively as if they had read out their names. The programme has been able to advance no evidence, simply saying that they are Internet rumours. The six now need police protection (at enormous public cost) and are likely to be at risk of vigilantes for ever.

The programme has now been referred to the regulator. There's a grey area around whether they can be prosecuted for slander as they say they are only repeating information which is on the Internet.

We all want paedophiles to be brought to justice - but the programme's action stinks.
 
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No, it wasnt. It was exactly correct.
No, it was exactly wrong. We can't have people bandying allegations around in public that have the potential to seriously damage people's lives, before evidence has been produced, let alone having found them guilty. They could easily be targeted by retribution-seeking vigilantes (who usually have no personal association to the actual crime anyway), and before you know it, you've got people put in the stocks, or burnt at the stake (metaphorically these days, thankfully).

This is what innocent until proven guilty is all about, Dandy.

Already got it by your first - but thanks

But thats not just a british problem and defenetly not one that just exist in the internet. This connection of gay = paedophile is quite popular
And it's ridiculous. :frown1:

The names on the piece of paper passed to Cameron were visible on screen because of what the programme has called "an unfortunate camera angle" for which they have apologised. The programme has accused this six of being paedophiles as effectively as if they had read out their names. The programme has been able to advance no evidence, simply saying that they are Internet rumours. The six now need police protection (at enormous public cost) and are likely to be at risk of vigilantes for ever.

The programme has now been referred to the regulator. There's a grey area around whether they can be prosecuted for slander as they say they are only repeating information which is on the Internet.

We all want paedophiles to be brought to justice - but the programme's action stinks.
Absolutely.

I'm also not in favour of the naming and picturing of the woman who collided with Bradley Wiggins yesterday. Sure, let her be subject to prosecution like anyone else would, who carelessly (and accidentally) knocks someone off a bike. But don't expose her to persecution from millions of people.
 
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One day, I am going to have to write here of my experiences. I am not into long winded stories though. Yet, thirty years after, a month ago, a professional, a friend from those times, I ran into. Through lets say karmic circumstances, asked to shake my hand, look me in the eye, and apologise for all that came to pass back then. I had been at peace with all that had happened, yet I walked out the door six feet taller. I was accused of some horrible things, had to make some heart rending decisions at the time. Anyway, another time.

To think about it at times still makes me cry, even though all is good now. Silly huh :)
 
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Drifterwood

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Homosexual acts were still illegal in the UK in the 1960's. Until the mid eighties the age of consent was 21 I think, and then 18 and now sixteen in line with heterosexual acts. So if you had sex with a 20 yr old until quite recently, it would have been rated as paedophilia. Those who have an anti gay agenda will blur all this.

However I completely agree that we need to know what happened in the past in order we can now ensure as much as possible that it does not happen again.
 
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Homosexual acts were still illegal in the UK in the 1960's. Until the mid eighties the age of consent was 21 I think, and then 18 and now sixteen in line with heterosexual acts. So if you had sex with a 20 yr old until quite recently, it would have been rated as paedophilia. Those who have an anti gay agenda will blur all this.

However I completely agree that we need to know what happened in the past in order we can now ensure as much as possible that it does not happen again.

I approached the government onbudsman here twice, only to be told then it was not in the public interest. Powerfull people in minority organisations run the show, and still do to this day. Fear controls the debate, fear of the truth. I saw and experienced both sides, and with what I saw from both sides, there was never going to be any understanding.
 
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Drifterwood

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One day, I am going to have to write here of my experiences. I am not into long winded stories though. Yet, thirty years after, a month ago, a professional, a friend from those times, I ran into. Through lets say karmic circumstances, asked to shake my hand, look me in the eye, and apologise for all that came to pass back then. I had been at peace with all that had happened, yet I walked out the door six feet taller. I was accused of some horrible things, had to make some heart rending decisions at the time. Anyway, another time.

To think about it at times still makes me cry, even though all is good now. Silly huh :)

I know what you are saying. If you want to run it by me first Vibez, that would be fine by me.