Paging Mr Sharpton, Paging Mr Jackson

[Ericsson1228d]

You do realize that you are actually part of the problem? Racism is not a Democrat or Republican issue, no matter how many times you've said it on this board.

Do YOU realize that blind devotion exists as well as an unwillingness to actually discuss the issues and instead focus on racism? My previous post was an effort to get away from the racism nonsense. But, apparently, finger pointing and accusations are more fun.

But I do agree that racism is not a democrat, republican, black or white issue. It knows no party affiliation or color.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Do YOU realize that blind devotion exists as well as an unwillingness to actually discuss the issues and instead focus on racism? My previous post was an effort to get away from the racism nonsense.

Forget the generalizing and let's make this about the individuals.
Where have I tried to make every single complaint regarding Obama and the current administration made by his opponents about the issue of race? Here's a big hint for you, dear... I HAVEN'T. Your problem is that when you see me, you see a "liberal". Because of this, you immediately harp on the tired political divisive attacks and make unsubstantial claims and allegations about them. But if you actually read a single thing I said about this issue, you'd know differently. Not every single Democrat or liberal hides behind the "R" word to deflect issues. There's people like Qua & Jason_Els (just to name a few) who have voiced a number of critiques about our current Government and/or Obama yet nobody has ever called them a racist. Why don't you check out why they get away with it and people like YOU don't?

But, apparently, finger pointing and accusations are more fun.

Yeah.. you'll have to let me know how that is because you've been doing that a lot yourself.

But I do agree that racism is not a democrat, republican, black or white issue. It knows no party affiliation or color.

Then start acting like it, instead of searching for the "R" word ad-nauseam on the message board and trying to downplay its meaning. That's the true deflective tactic here.

 

[Ericsson1228d]

My point was about the debate on a national level - not about debate in an internet forum.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

My point was about the debate on a national level - not about debate in an internet forum.

And still, your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.

 

[Ericsson1228d]

And still, your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Really? I've yet to see any substantive rebuttal or disagreement with my original argument. I'll insert it below.

The racism debate has everyone taking their eye off of the ball, and I hope it is not a planned tactic from the dems to distract us all while the country goes to hell in a handbasket. Liberals are looking for racism around every corner, and conservatives are trying to discredit them and spending all their time defending themselves against the charge of being racist. We need to focus on the issues. Congress needs to realize that um.. there are things roughly 800 billion times more important than Rebuking Joe Wilson. Even Barney Frank voted "present" on the Wilson rebuke resolution, saying basically "I don't have time to monitor everyone's politeness, we need to move on and work on the real issues." I thought it was a level-headed statement.

So do you disagree with this?

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Really? I've yet to see any substantive rebuttal or disagreement with my original argument. I'll insert it below.

The racism debate has everyone taking their eye off of the ball, and I hope it is not a planned tactic from the dems to distract us all while the country goes to hell in a handbasket. Liberals are looking for racism around every corner, and conservatives are trying to discredit them and spending all their time defending themselves against the charge of being racist. We need to focus on the issues. Congress needs to realize that um.. there are things roughly 800 billion times more important than Rebuking Joe Wilson. Even Barney Frank voted "present" on the Wilson rebuke resolution, saying basically "I don't have time to monitor everyone's politeness, we need to move on and work on the real issues." I thought it was a level-headed statement.

So do you disagree with this?

You sourced a couple of incidents and that translates to every single Liberal out there? Barney Frank or anyone that opposes Joe Wilson is now supposed to represent all Democrats? Absolutely LAUGHABLE. I thought you learned not to discriminate and/or generalize an entire group of people after whole "Black Panthers in front of a building" fiasco that didn't end well for you? Apparently not.

The same way I don't associate Beck or Limbaugh's comments to represent all Republicans, you shouldn't be so quick to do the same to your opposition. It only makes you look ignorant.

 

[Ericsson1228d]

So has the racism debate caused people to take their eye off the ball of the REAL problems here?

 

[B_VinylBoy]

So has the racism debate caused people to take their eye off the ball of the REAL problems here?

Not at all. That is, unless you don't think Health Care, Afghanistan, the Economy, Immigration and Civil Rights are not real problems. The issue of race has been fused into several of the arguments on these debates. But it's not that difficult to make any of your grievances a non-racist sentiment. Just don't mention any personalized characteristics in an attempt to demonizes an entire group of people.

 

[D_Mylor Mentallydaft]

a 2 part question to be fair (both are stories actually told to me) if you’ll indulge me

a young white cop sees a young black male driving and profiles the boy as to be some one with drugs or atleast warrants, he pulls the boy over and on top of being very impolite and harsh, he also is visibly forceful in securing him to search his car. the boy had no warrants but he did have just shy of a half ounce of pot in the car and the cop charges the boy for possession

a 55 year old black man so enthusiastic about the obama win at the election he begins emailing coworkers pro obama chains and support emails. One day in a heated debate in the break room with another employee he loudly starts responding with theories of how “the white man’s government looks for every weakness the black man could have and jumps on it” but this is a government building with a zero tolerance policy on any racially derogatory statements. And the 55yo black man is overheard by the black boss and is fired. He is now without a pension or income or benefits, and 4 months later has a hypertension related heart attack and dies. the average black men dies at 54 and SS dosen’t pay until after 60, so the money he had paid in since he took the job at 22 is rolled back into the war chest as it is with 63% of all black men in America.

NOW……… think about the white cop and the old black man…. Both judged and assumed based on no direct experience in the specific situation and expected the worst from the opposition at hand.

SO, WHAT IS THE BIGGER ISSUE?,
that they BOTH stereotyped a group of people by the worst example
...........................or that they were right?

As the saying goes , by your fruits you are known, and like you said we don't need to forget our histories or deny who we are. but that has to go both ways. if you can (as you should) factor past actions of a group into your expectations, you have to allow or even welcome it on yourself. And to not deny who you are is to accept your responsability for the actions of your peers. cracker jokes and nigger jokes and lawyer jokes and political jokes are all funny cause they are all true. And the punchline's short commings ARE ALL their own fault. but it's easier to point a finger than own up......AND THAT is why we watch 23 minutes of news about the half white president's beer and kids fighting on a bus, and 4 mins about that little war we STILL have going on

 

[B_VinylBoy]

These scenarios are more different than you think.
The first is an issue of a person with authority abusing his power. The cop didn't have any justifiable reason to pull over the driver, nor did he have the right to treat the driver with disrespect or search the car without a warrant. The civilian was unfairly placed in a situation where he had little to no choice but to follow the instruction of the cop. If he resisted, that could have resulted in a bigger altercation that may have lead to violence. If this was brought up in a court of law, the civilian could bring charges against the cop and form a relevant case especially since the drugs wouldn't be admissible due to an illegal search.

Your second scenario reverses the roles. You now have a 55 year old man, employed by a company with its own guidelines & rules, engaging in questionable behavior on the workplace. Racial or character degrading dialogue of any kind, regardless if you want to believe has some truth to it or not, is considered by most employers as a terminal offense. As open minded my employer is, I'm sure I would be fired too if my supervisors heard me engaging in similar dialect. I know people who were fired from jobs just for swearing. Employers have every right to fire people who don't properly represent the image or look they want to maintain. That's why most people are hired "at-will" by companies.

Notice how I assessed both scenarios without even mentioning the skin color of any particular person? When you take race out of the issue, we can look at the problems for what they really are. Whether or not some white or black people look at each other and instantly think "thug" or "redneck" may instigate the emotions of people from both sides of the argument, but are not the real ones we should be focused on. If anything, our past & current issues regarding race should pose as a reminder to us all to treat each other with respect instead of unnecessary scrutiny. The more we do this, the less we have to worry about the profiling and the termination of people's employment for making race-based statements.

 

[Ericsson1228d]

Good points VinylBoy.

 

[D_Mylor Mentallydaft]

Doing nothing is the worst of our sins, denying and debating the simple truth only allows the negativity to grow from anticipation; YES this is about racism...... and anything to do with race makes considerations for individual anything counter productive and actually destructive.



VB, you're 10 years my senior, you're a gay black man who's interests take him across the race and age divide, I'm a united states solider, white, straight and till lately with a white woman my own age, but where as I experience no judgment other than that which I forced on my self through my appearance and job in my day to day. What we both share is we both are too young to have seen the real FIGHT for the rights and farness that is taken for granted today. we can know every fact and every detail from books and stories, but I can tell you with certainty if your eyes were glued to CNN and FOX news 24/7 since 2003 you still don't know what it's like to hear the white noise of the road and not see, only remember, the sight of a humv in front of you be blown 10 feet in the air.



Having said that, it's obvious, you know it happens.... you are aware of the numbers, and details and stories surround them, there is a war over seas, there are people dying, it was started over a lie, and forced to follow through to clean up the liars mess. white people tell NIGGER jokes... we move away if possible when a black family moves in.... we thought O.J did it even before we heard the evidence.... we judge you at first sight based on the actions of idiots in your race that are publicized by the media..... I will admit this, not all of us, but most of us..... And I will call bullshit on anyone who adamantly denies it with out any exception. I admit it; because it’s the only way the issue can be fixed. But to fix it, a black man or woman would have to stand up and say ....I expect you to judge me... I know it’s popular and accepted and often expected to break laws and act with no regard for anyone most of all myself..... It’s considered to be "white" to be educated, speak proper English or dress in a professional manor.....



These simple admissions of our own obvious majority truths would be a mile stone in destroying the race divide... then each group would be forced to address their own issues privately, accept their short comings and fix them accordingly. man is animal after all, and animals prefer their own kind to those that are different....we NEED our cultural differences, they make us who we are, admit our issues, make ourselves a better and then try to better us together we can all embrace EQUAL-DIFFRENT-ACCOUNTABLE....... but this will never happen...... it's easier to say you didn't think something and did, easier to blame your life on someone else, easier to expect something when you give nothing or say you are comfortable and some times oblivious to an issue you tip toe around like a land mine and allow to dictate every interaction you have with a group...... we live in a time of self imposed cultural segregation sustained by lack of communication. It’s absolutely maddening

 

[MalakingTiti]

I'm so sick of this shit. Race race race. Thats all I hear about. Some non whites act as if every white person is racist while some whites act as if racism doesn't exist. I for one am tired of it all. Why can't people just be, and stop looking for trouble every chance they get? Fucking bullshit. And the general public loves it.

 

[D_Mylor Mentallydaft]

I'm so sick of this shit. Race race race. Thats all I hear about. Some non whites act as if every white person is racist while some whites act as if racism doesn't exist. I for one am tired of it all. Why can't people just be, and stop looking for trouble every chance they get? Fucking bullshit. And the general public loves it.

umm... sorta the point were trying to make

 

[b.c.]

Even the parents and participants agree it's a non-issue (with regard to race), dredged up by the o.p. to create further divide. Note this line from the article:

"Belleville has had a long history of racial turmoil, with a past that includes police harassment of black motorists, cross burnings and discrimination in city hiring."

So where was his "concern" when all this other stuff was going on?

 

[D_Mylor Mentallydaft]

So where was his "concern" when all this other stuff was going on?

it didn't exist, not his problem.......

not his or mine or any one that's a photo negative of you's job to be concerned with the injustices visited upon them that they either A) brought upon them selves by their own actions or B) was brought upon them because of the actions of the former and those in the latter didn't feel like doing anything about it.

Do YOU care if my property value is brought down by a black family on my street? it dosen't matter if they are madea fred sandford and bebe's kids or if they are the huckstbels, and why? cause of ignorant biggots that chose jobs in real estate or jobs that allow them to afford, therefor price, real estate. and why shouldn't you? cause if i had a big enough problem with them being there or a big enough problem that idiots effect my home's value I WOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! RIGHT? YEAH!

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Having said that, it's obvious, you know it happens.... you are aware of the numbers, and details and stories surround them, there is a war over seas, there are people dying, it was started over a lie, and forced to follow through to clean up the liars mess. white people tell NIGGER jokes... we move away if possible when a black family moves in.... we thought O.J did it even before we heard the evidence.... we judge you at first sight based on the actions of idiots in your race that are publicized by the media..... I will admit this, not all of us, but most of us..... And I will call bullshit on anyone who adamantly denies it with out any exception. I admit it; because it’s the only way the issue can be fixed. But to fix it, a black man or woman would have to stand up and say ....I expect you to judge me... I know it’s popular and accepted and often expected to break laws and act with no regard for anyone most of all myself..... It’s considered to be "white" to be educated, speak proper English or dress in a professional manor.....

The judgement, or first impression, is not necessarily the problem. Most people's eyes are more trained to identify what someone likes or dislikes. Even I look at certain people, the way that they're dressed, or the way they carry on in public and sometimes get a little put off by their actions. The real issue arises when some people, based on these differences and nothing else, decide to prevent them from living their life the way they want to. Sure, I wish every kid who thinks wearing their jeans half way down their legs, showing off their boxer shorts and butt crack, would go home and change. But do I push for legislation to make them dress according to what I prefer to see? Of course not. What's the problem with letting people do as they will? As long as they're not affecting anyone physically or causing anyone a real problem, let these people do what they want. You, personally, will probably never have to interact with each other. And if you do, common sense would tell you to at least be polite and treat them with some level of respect. Because who knows, they just might be a really nice person with a skewed sense of fashion.

As for your property analogy... That's absolute bullshit. When it comes to the real estate market, it's all about MONEY. Where it's being made, and how you can capitalize on those who make it. At the end of the day, the person selling the house or condo doesn't care whether or not the person buying or renting the place is Black, Hispanic, Asian or whatever because the money is still green. Although I'm sure I know what really goes through the minds of the few paranoid people who think their property value will somehow drop just because you have a family on the block who would rather celebrate Kanzaa instead of Christmas...

they're black, that means they're gang bangers. Every night they'll drive by with their cars booming that rap music and we'll never get any sleep. They'll probably be selling crack out of their house, and all kinds of weird people will be coming to our neighborhood to steal our stuff. What about our kids? We can't have this in our neighborhood!!

Yeah... some judgement for just looking at someone's skin color.

 

[b.c.]

it didn't exist, not his problem.......

not his or mine or any one that's a photo negative of you's job to be concerned with the injustices visited upon them that they either A) brought upon them selves by their own actions or B) was brought upon them because of the actions of the former and those in the latter didn't feel like doing anything about it.

Do YOU care if my property value is brought down by a black family on my street? it dosen't matter if they are madea fred sandford and bebe's kids or if they are the huckstbels, and why? cause of ignorant biggots that chose jobs in real estate or jobs that allow them to afford, therefor price, real estate. and why shouldn't you? cause if i had a big enough problem with them being there or a big enough problem that idiots effect my home's value I WOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! RIGHT? YEAH!

Whaaa????

 

[Industrialsize]

it didn't exist, not his problem.......

not his or mine or any one that's a photo negative of you's job to be concerned with the injustices visited upon them that they either A) brought upon them selves by their own actions or B) was brought upon them because of the actions of the former and those in the latter didn't feel like doing anything about it.

Do YOU care if my property value is brought down by a black family on my street? it dosen't matter if they are madea fred sandford and bebe's kids or if they are the huckstbels, and why? cause of ignorant biggots that chose jobs in real estate or jobs that allow them to afford, therefor price, real estate. and why shouldn't you? cause if i had a big enough problem with them being there or a big enough problem that idiots effect my home's value I WOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! RIGHT? YEAH!

What would you do?

 

[faceking]

This was not a racial incident. It's a school bus altercation involving very mundane bullying.



Andrew Sullivan has all the dirt here.

Agree, could care less about kids on a bus. It was a tie in to the hack, pulling out the Obama race card, which Barrah himself has said is bullshit (good for him)... and worst president of the last 75 years making this claim http://www.lpsg.org/149746-jimmy-carter-playing-race-card.html

it was a discourse bout of sarcasm.

There's blabber about Wilson and presidential protocol... what happened to ex-presidents keeping their fucking piehole shut on future administrations. Clinton blew that out of the water. Carter was such a disaster, all he's been trying to do is salvage the minute iota of legitimacy of presidency, but trying to leave some "post-tenure" legacy. STFU. You look like Nixon... bitter.