Palin walks-back 'Death Panel' remark

[Notaguru2]

Today must be a day of reconciliation? A day after Palin claims Obamacare will result in a 'death panel' to determine who will live, or die... she's calling for civility?

Yes, Sarah, you like so many on the far right are committing political suicide day after day. Keep up the good work.

 

[Penis Aficionado]

Keep in mind who is coming up with this stuff about euthanasia and "Death panels" -- it's the same party that a few years ago wanted the federal government to intervene in an unprecedented way in the medical decision-making of an American family, the Schiavos.

Why did conservative Republicans care so much about that case, and why did they read all these dystopian fantasies into an innocuous line in the House healthcare bill about end-of-life discussions between patients and doctors?

Because conservative Republicans are against anything that remotely falls under the category of "end-of-life" care -- they are against physician-assisted suicide, against DNRs, against you even discussing with your doctor how to make a terminal illness more comfortable. Many of them are even against you getting enough morphine to ease your pain in your final days, because then you would be one of those evil drug addicts, and don't you know, we're at War on Drugs!

No, conservative Republicans want you and your family members to die naturally and painfully, because they are *religious fundamentalists* whose greatest concern is that you might do something that's "against God's will."

Just as they have fetishized the two-day-old fetus and proclaimed its very existence as proof that God wants it to live, they fetishize the terminal cancer patient or the accident victim in a coma and say that only God should decide when they die.

 

[midlifebear]

Can't say I find anything suspect in Penis Aficionado's observations about ultra-right christian neo cons. Two years before my father died he signed a Do Not Resuscitate directive which we always dragged along with us whenever he had to go to the hospital. After a long night of watching my father slowly choke on his own saliva after open heart surgery I finally found the nurse running the iCU and asked her about what could be done to possibly prevent my father from drowning in his own spit. She was completely unaware there was a problem and I had to drag her into his room where upon we discovered a stout and sturdy ICU nurse on top of my father pounding on his chest. He had quit breathing during the short time I had left his room to find the head of ICU and ask for help. To her great surprise (and mine) I grabbed the nurse pounding on my father and threw her against the safety glass wall of the room. It seems that she was unable to read the large letters DNR that my dad had written across his head before the heart surgery.

The lesson: it doesn't matter if you have a DNR. They'll still try to bring you back and bill your insurance for as much as they possibly can. Respect and dignity are not high priorities in US hospitals.

 

[B_Nick4444]

actually the "duty to die" nonsense is a serious proposition, especially in the "thinking" on the liberal side

for example, see: Is there a duty to die? - Google Books


see also: GOV. LAMM ASSERTS ELDERLY, IF VERY ILL, HAVE 'DUTY TO DIE' - Free Preview - The New York Times

there is actually quite a bit more; these are just some of the first examples that come to mind

not surprising that the same ideological aisle that sees it thoroughly appropriate to destroy nascent, defenseless human beings because of the inconvenience they would cause, would also find it appropriate and ethical to destroy those causing inconvenience owing to infirmity and age

it is completely in line with the reification of categories libs engage in, whether it be race, ethnicity, economic classes, age groups, sexual orientation, et al

and it is completely in line with the urge to grant the government extensive power over the life of the individual that Obama, and Dems in general, display

there is no question Palin is an idiot, but if an idiot were to yell "fire", I wouldn't disregard that warning simply because of that attribute

 

[houtx48]

I was still living in Colorado when Governor Gloom said old people should die that was long time ago , twenty five years or more, and I can remember which party he represented. My mother had a do not resuscitate order also that was ignored, the hospital did not do her any favors the just prolonged six more months of hellish living.

 

[Penis Aficionado]

actually the "duty to die" nonsense is a serious proposition, especially in the "thinking" on the liberal side

for example, see: Is there a duty to die? - Google Books

The jacket of that book says it is written by "leading philosophers and bioethicists."

You must understand that academics write crazy, theoretical shit all the time. They feel free to do so because they realize there's not the slightest chance that their thought experiments will make the remotest impact on the real world.

This failure (or more likely, deliberate refusal) to distinguish between academic writing and policy prescription comes up all the time during the debates over Supreme Court nominees and cabinet appointments, and it's ridiculous. Some poor bastard who's obviously as bourgeois as the day is long gets nominated, and all of the sudden we discover that 30 years ago, back in college, he wrote that everyone should eat their own feces for breakfast. And the Senators all stand up and say, "Thank God we did our research, we saved the American people from being forced by law to eat their own shit every morning!'

When really, the nominee in question just wrote a paper *about* some wackjob even further back in the past, who did in fact eat his own shit for breakfast. Because that's what academics do -- they explore other people's crazy ideas.

 

[mikeyh9in]

The jacket of that book says it is written by "leading philosophers and bioethicists."

You must understand that academics write crazy, theoretical shit all the time. They feel free to do so because they realize there's not the slightest chance that their thought experiments will make the remotest impact on the real world.

This failure (or more likely, deliberate refusal) to distinguish between academic writing and policy prescription comes up all the time during the debates over Supreme Court nominees and cabinet appointments, and it's ridiculous. Some poor bastard who's obviously as bourgeois as the day is long gets nominated, and all of the sudden we discover that 30 years ago, back in college, he wrote that everyone should eat their own feces for breakfast. And the Senators all stand up and say, "Thank God we did our research, we saved the American people from being forced by law to eat their own shit every morning!'

When really, the nominee in question just wrote a paper *about* some wackjob even further back in the past, who did in fact eat his own shit for breakfast. Because that's what academics do -- they explore other people's crazy ideas.

Well said.

The issue is that Republicans do not (or can not) read and make that distinction. It reminds me of the study they did regarding the Colbert Report -- How Republicans enjoyed the Colbert Report because they did not (or could not) understand the nuance of the jokes and thought he was genuine.

We are battling not ideological issues, we are battling ignorance.

 

[VeeP]

Funny thing -- it's now out of the bill 5 days hence... coincidence or might Palin actually be wielding some political muscle "from the grave"?

WoooOOOOooooo

 

[Zeuhl34]

Funny thing -- it's now out of the bill 5 days hence... coincidence or might Palin actually be wielding some political muscle "from the grave"?

WoooOOOOooooo

What's out of the bill? There was no "death panel" to start with.

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

Oh please, i have never seen so much assumptions about people you dont even know about because you all refuse to even talk or befriend someone that votes differently than you do.

There are many republicans with DNR's, republicans who have had abortions or even gay republicans. But hearing you all talk about them you assume they wake up looking to hunt you all down and kill you with your shotguns.

I live where there are a lot more republicans than you all have seen in your lifetime, i assure you that while many might think the way you assume- there are a percentage of them that DO NOT fit your descriptions. I've never seen so much paranoia about the possible republican you might meet in your personal life. You big city folks get ingrown hanging out with only people like yourselves that you cant even comprehend the thought process of someone not just like you.

I dont buy a lot of ANY political bullshit, but i sure as hell dont assume that all you gay people want to fuck little boys, all black people want to carjack you, all white people are rich, all mexicans smoke marijuana. You guys speak in the most outrageous generalizations i've ever seen.

Just to think you are missing out on a group of people that you automically exclude because you fear the word "Republican" so much. Most of my friends are democrats- i loose no sleep over it- i assure you. And Obama being my president- he didnt make me, hes not going to break me. If we all think the same- someone isnt thinking. Im not going to fall hook, line and sinker for any party's lines.

You are the first to jump on people making generalizations about ANYONE, but boy you all can dish them out cant ya? I love to know that i go around proving people wrong about whatever they thought. I guess that idea is just too much for people who live in their own little universe of thinking. What a bunch of lemmings you are.

 

[deleted15807]

It's just another SwiftBoat attack, completely groundless but effective to the stupid masses.

False ‘Death Panel’ Rumor Has Some Familiar Roots

 

[D_Tintagel_Demondong]

These ignorant people who believe in state-run death panels need to ask themselves, "would a real doctor kill a person simply because the government told them to?" I hope that they ask an M.D. and get a reality check.

Healthcare is socialized in my country and death panels certainly don't exist here. They don't exist in any Western country that has socialized healthcare, so why would they ever exist in the U.S.? I find it very ironic that right-wing Republicans are the ones who are becoming fearful of the government; it's quite a role reversal.

 

[midlifebear]

Oh please, i have never seen so much assumptions about people you dont even know about because you all refuse to even talk or befriend someone that votes differently than you do.

There are many republicans with DNR's, republicans who have had abortions or even gay republicans. But hearing you all talk about them you assume they wake up looking to hunt you all down and kill you with your shotguns.

I live where there are a lot more republicans than you all have seen in your lifetime, i assure you that while many might think the way you assume- there are a percentage of them that DO NOT fit your descriptions. I've never seen so much paranoia about the possible republican you might meet in your personal life. You big city folks get ingrown hanging out with only people like yourselves that you cant even comprehend the thought process of someone not just like you.

I dont buy a lot of ANY political bullshit, but i sure as hell dont assume that all you gay people want to fuck little boys, all black people want to carjack you, all white people are rich, all mexicans smoke marijuana. You guys speak in the most outrageous generalizations i've ever seen.

Just to think you are missing out on a group of people that you automically exclude because you fear the word "Republican" so much. Most of my friends are democrats- i loose no sleep over it- i assure you. And Obama being my president- he didnt make me, hes not going to break me. If we all think the same- someone isnt thinking. Im not going to fall hook, line and sinker for any party's lines.

You are the first to jump on people making generalizations about ANYONE, but boy you all can dish them out cant ya? I love to know that i go around proving people wrong about whatever they thought. I guess that idea is just too much for people who live in their own little universe of thinking. What a bunch of lemmings you are.

Having been raised in Ewetaw, I doubt you've lived among and or know more Republicans than I do -- unless you, too, live in Ewetaw. I'm not against all Republicas, per se. I even used to be one! It's the bible-thumping neo con christian fringe element of the Republican Party that has caused so much damage to the GOP -- and, Madmoiselle R, you too, if you're of the opinion that all Republicans are perfect and that Ronald Reagan was a god.

However, I have great respect for many friends who are Republican, can read, reason, and see the many aspects of an issue -- not just the Rush Limbaugh speaking points. One thing is certain: the Republican Party in its current iteration is patently anti-gay. So go fuck yourself until you see the light. :smile:

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

Ive never once brought up how i feel about ronald regan. Where did that come from. And there is nothing gay hating about me or my friends. Or from my gay friends.

I dont hold any government to any God-like status, even if i voted for them.They certainly cant be entirely trusted either. And i'll have you know i was in the middle of fucking myself when i read that.

 

[Daddy Lucas]

I don't think any of the posters were painting all GOPer's as being on the Dark Side! As MidlifeBear stated so eloquently: "It's the bible-thumping neo con christian fringe element of the Republican Party that has caused so much damage to the GOP " I tried to warn my Republican friends way back in the 80's - beware who you are getting in bed with - these wackjobs are fucking NUTS! Or could it be that Carl Rove is working in the background again but this time he is trying to scare us with Democratic Death Squads who are picking off Grandma & Grandpa.
As my Granny used to say: "Sweet baby Jesus - Save us from your followers!"

 

[midlifebear]

Thank you, Daddy Lucas: Something my gun-totin', God-fearin', and fag hatin' older brother (he's 69) pointed out to me was that Carl Rove started his career of being a disinformation specialist when he started college at the University of Ewetaw in 1969! At first I didn't believe him. But I resorted to the Wiki o' Pedia, (better than the Encyclopedia Britannica) and discovered to my amazement that it was true. But he dropped out after about 1.5 years and headed for parts (Texas) to ply his trade. It's amazing he's never been convicted of mail fraud. I'm certain we haven't heard the last of Carl Rove's talent for getting out disinformation against fellow Republicans or the Democrats.


Oh, the anticipation!

 

[B_Nick4444]

I intentionally posted two items of reference -- one, the book you cite, and two, an example of an elected official who fully subscribed to the notion, and enthusiastically (and loudly) stood ready, and more than willing to implement the policy prescriptions.

Ideas have a way of leading to action -- it has been pointed out, for example, how radical and bizarre the ideas of the Bill of Rights seemed to the populace of the former thirteen colonies, who regarded the Founding Fathers as wild-eyed radicals.

Just think of how accepted the nonsense of the women's lib movement is now, in comparison to pre-1970's America. To explain this, I would point out the phenomenological effects of post-industrial consumer society.

Likewise, given the obvious teleological direction underpinning the Obama drive to strengthen the nexus between large governement, large corporations, and their domination over the individual, restructuring the polity to the benefit of that nexus, and its logic, will likely result in a ready acceptance of those notions.

One simply has to review the propositions made in support of terminating life support in the Schiavo case, the statements mad in support of abortion, especially those made as regards "the quality of life" of the subject in question, and one may see the ready jump that will be made from the subject's "right", to the government's "duty".

The jacket of that book says it is written by "leading philosophers and bioethicists."

You must understand that academics write crazy, theoretical shit all the time. They feel free to do so because they realize there's not the slightest chance that their thought experiments will make the remotest impact on the real world.

 

[whitecaps]

UGH! don't even get me started on this spawn of Satan... :angryfire: