Palin went to Canada to get health care

[B_talltpaguy]

^Nobody I know from Canada says that, and I know dozens of people from there, including several Americans up there on work visas who are obviously well aware of what we have here too. The wingnuts continue to lie through their teeth to try and scare people with ridiculous assertions based on either rare cases that are the exception to the norm, or on outright fabrications of what actually occurs elsewhere.

 

[justasimpleguy]

YouTube - In the Land of Queen Esther: The Unauthorized Sarah Palin Story (Part One)

This is how nuts Palin and her followers are. This is why people pay attention to what she does. Because whatever else she is, she has massive support in some parts of the country and these people would follow her to hell and back.

 

[DaveUSADAV]

This parlays the story about the Nova Scotia PM who went to Florida for a cardiac procedure: he did not have to go, Canada has plenty of clinics to do that very procedure probably for free -just not in remote Nova Scotia ( just like we probably could not get it done in Billings, Montana, I don't know)- but he is rich, has a home down in Florida and wanted to go for a vacation anyway at his winter retreat, and apparently is a friend/benefactor of the hospital and its staff down in southern Florida. I think the procedure would cost me over 30 grand if I paid out of pocket for it here. He don't care! The right wing media milked his tale for all it is worth.

 

[vince]

It was 35-40 years ago...but to answer your questions: I don't imagine so. Though the reason Palin made the reference in her speech was to acknowledge some of the good workings of the system. People who go to the hospital in Canada are probably taken care of - back then and today. However that does not mean that quality of care isn't reduced to reduce cost and tough decisions on who gets what, aren't also made to address the issues of cost. That also doesn't erase the long lines, and months wait times for procedures or even for a family doctor TODAY in the Canadian Healthcare system.

You're so stupid, it's almost cute!

 

[JTalbain]

You're so stupid, it's almost cute!

I find it especially amusing that she worries about long lines and overworked doctors as a consequence of changing the medical system, but uninsured people who need to use the free clinics in America already have to deal with that.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

^I've had insurance my whole life, and I don't ever remember trying to make an appointment for a doctor, and not being told that I would have to wait some weeks (unless it was an acute issue, in which case they tell you to go to the emergency room)...

I've broken numerous bones in my body and had multiple surgeries, so it's not like I'm talking about an isolated case here... And each and every last one of them was paid for with insurance, and each and every last one of them was a struggle and a wait to have performed (and a misery to get paid for). The only time I didn't have to fight with theinsurance and wait was when I went to the emergency room after getting jerked around by my insurance over a neck injury I had. I lied and said I had no insurance, and was operated on within 24 hours.

Every MRI I've ever had, every shot, every therapy session. I had to wait in line for ALL of them.

Heck, even right now... I'm on hold waiting to see a dermatologist for a skin checkup. I made the appointment in January. He didn't have time to see me until next week... Same thing with my dentist (which is a cash transaction, no insurance!). I made the appointment in Mid-February, and they didn't have an open slot until early April.


All of this bullshit about rationing care and waiting lines and people not getting the treatment they need in countries with universal care is absolute fucking lying ass bullshit. AMERICANS ALREADY DEAL WITH THOSE CONDITIONS EVERY TIME WE NEED MEDICAL CARE!

 

[midlifebear]

talltpaguy: Now that you mention it, I always had to wait several weeks before seeing a physician in the USA when I had insurance. Never -- as in NOT ONCE -- whenever I called for an appointment was I ever asked, "Can you come in today at 2:00 PM?" or some other time that had suddenly opened up.

And as for dental insurance . . . what a scam. I always had what I was told was great dental insurance back in the days I could still afford insurance and insurance companies didn't treat me like I had leprosy (which is what happens when you have your 50th birthday, are single, gay and a history of asthma). I recently was apprised by my dentist here in Barcelona that I have one impacted wisdom tooth left. It's in my lower left jaw and he recommends that I never have it removed, because of my age and that any new bone that grows back would be weaker than the bone/tooth adhesion that I currently have. Just as long as I never develop an infection I'll be OK.

But I vividly remember paying to have that wisdom tooth removed back in 1980. Instead, the dentist obviously only removed three teeth and never really bothered to tell me the truth about the 4th tooth. However, I did have some mangled, bloody tissue where that tooth is. In addition, I remember that I had to pay $700 (in 1980) to pay for the anesthesia because my orthodontist did the anesthesia himself in his office. If an anesthesiologist had knocked me out they would have paid $1,000. Didn't and still doesn't make sense.

Well, there is good news if you live in the USA and are worried about dental care IF you can pull together $10,000. The average cost of a complete repair/reconstruction of bad teeth including cosmetic finishing (crowns, veneers, root canals, deep trenching for gum diseases) is rarely more than $10,000 -- as long as you go to a dentist who specializes in cosmetic dentistry. In the Los Angeles Area there are hundreds of these specialists. If you're brave and willing to take Mexicoach across the border from San Ysidro to Tijuana you can cut that price down to about $2,000. Mexican dental schools are just as good as dental schools in the USA. Although Mexican dentists usually insist upon cash whereas American cosmetic dentists will often take American Express. And these guys rarely, if ever, want to play dental insurance. It's a cash business.

Isn't ironic that dentistry as a cash business works so much better than when you go to your local tooth puller and play the dental insurance game?

 

[vince]

tallpaguy, I don't want to rub it in about Canadian healthcare, but I honestly can't recall ever having to wait very long to see the doctor. The family doctor is never more than a day or two and if it seems urgent, they tell us to get on down there ASAP.

I've written elsewhere about the fairly major surgery I had. There was zero wait time. They had me checked into a room and starting the prep process before I even had a chance to think about it.

 

[midlifebear]

"Palin with to Canada to get some health care, uh huh." Anyone else notice that the title of this thread lends itself to the melody of Froggy Went a Courtin'?

 

[cdarro]

tallpaguy, I don't want to rub it in about Canadian healthcare, but I honestly can't recall ever having to wait very long to see the doctor. The family doctor is never more than a day or two and if it seems urgent, they tell us to get on down there ASAP.

I've written elsewhere about the fairly major surgery I had. There was zero wait time. They had me checked into a room and starting the prep process before I even had a chance to think about it.

Same story here, couldn't have put the first paragraph any better. Can't comment on major surgery personally, as I have never had any I'd consider major, but family members have, and no unreasonable waits.

 

[maxcok]

. . . All of this bullshit about rationing care and waiting lines and people not getting the treatment they need in countries with universal care is absolute fucking lying ass bullshit. AMERICANS ALREADY DEAL WITH THOSE CONDITIONS EVERY TIME WE NEED MEDICAL CARE!

The "best" coverage I ever had was as a member of Kaiser Permanente in California, which inexplicably to me is being held up as a model of "what works". Here is my experience:

I developed dibilitating migraines, which continued unabated nearly round the clock for over six months. I am no stranger to physical pain, and I have a naturally high threshold, but this was by far the most excrutiating I had ever experienced. I couldn't work, I had trouble eating, couldn't sleep more than a few hours, all I could manage to do mostly was lay in the dark and cry. And I don't cry. I've gone 10 years at a stretch without crying. I am not a big fan of pharmaceutical medicine, nevertheless I tried every med under the sun. Nothing worked, including powerful narcotics that just made me loopy and actually intensified the pain.

Every time I tried to make an appointment, even with my GP - by automatic telephone system - it was automatically moved out at least 30 days. If I could get a live human to call me back, the call came at least 24 hours if not days later, invariably when I was unable to think or function enough to press my case to the incompetent boob on the other end. Docs at Kaiser are paid a salary, and GP appts. are scheduled 15 mins. apart to maximize "efficiency" (read profit). Which means, by the time he makes some notes on the previous patient, writes some scrips, makes a call, scrubs up, chats with a nurse, he's got at best 5 mins. left for you. Even though I had managed, by doing my own research and being pushy, to score arguably the best GP in the system, the appts. were inadequate to say the least. My previous GP had not come within 10 feet of me when I was having pronounced heart arhytmia, much less bothered to put a stethoscope on me.

The times I went to emergency, a 2-4 hour ordeal, the docs could not have been less competent or less interested in my condition, had no clue what to do, and on a couple occasions complained to me about having to work the overnight shift. Stamping and hollering to see a specialist finally got me a couple of appts. with a 'neurologist', who I later learned was a nurse practicioner posing as a doctor. The meds that didn't work were very expensive, and inexplicably never covered under my copay. I was left in an MRI machine for over an hour during a shift change when the technician who had put me in there left without my knowledge. It was only when I heard the new technician talking to his girlfriend on his cell phone in the next room, and I started hollering, that he came to get me out. I am claustrophobic, by the way. Thanks.

It is obvious to me that the system was designed to collect money and maximize profits, while confusing patients and delaying or denying services every step of the way. Ultimately, with the loss of income and the expense of copays and uncovered prescriptions - and with no improvement in sight - I stopped paying my premiums, and my coverage was cancelled. This all came after years of paying premiums and not even using the services, rarely even for routine checkups. For a single self-employed male in his 40's, those premiums were not cheap. After flushing all that money down the sewer, it was the best healthcare decision I ever made to let my coverage lapse, not that I had much of a choice at that point. I prefer a holistic approach to well-being and natural healing modalities whenever possible anyway. The Kaiser coverage was mainly there in case I had a major crisis. Ironic.

This is a only small snapshot of what I endured, and though I did my best to demand treatment, I was in no condition to act as my own patient advocate. My situation was not life-threatening and still isn't as far as I can tell, although at the time I had no clue what was going on, neither did the people 'treating' me, and it was very scary. I've had similar experiences with healthcare, but I'm a little uncomfortable complaining too much, as I know other people have suffered so much worse. Still, I think my story speaks to how dysfunctional the system is, how it can totally fuck up your life when you most need it to work, and that's why I decided to share it. I know much worse horror stories at Kaiser, including a dear friend of mine who died as a result of an overlooked and long delayed cancer diagnosis, and subsequent shoddy treatment.

I was ultimately able to gain control over the migraines through herbal therapy, intense meditation and biofeedback techniques, which I taught myself. Though they do recur from time to time, I have learned to recognize when they are coming, and if I'm in a position to stop what I'm doing and focus, I can generally beat them back before they take hold. Once they set in though, it's a different story. I have some other health concerns as well, but I'll be goddamned if I'll ever throw any more money at an insurance company or an HMO and have them treat me like an abandoned lab rat. Even if the government requires it. If there's not a government supervised and sponsored public option, I'll protest or pay my penalties, and take my chances on the open market as I do now.

Yeah, the healthcare system in America is great! Why it's the best in the world, isn't it? And to reiterate, Kaiser is being held up as maybe the "best" model of what works. Horseshit! I will say they are very good at marketing, self promotion and collecting money.

The emperors of ancient China only paid their physicians when they were well, not when they were sick.
I think we should adopt that system. Think about it.

I'll probably get in trouble for this, but anyone who thinks we need to stick with the status quo, really needs to shut the fuck up!

 

[Trinity]

It's funny........that doesn't appear to be the experience of the many Candian LPSG'ers who have posted here.

YouTube - ObamaCare Yay Or Nay? The Truth About Canada!

Same story here, couldn't have put the first paragraph any better. Can't comment on major surgery personally, as I have never had any I'd consider major, but family members have, and no unreasonable waits.

You have never been able to support your position Cdarro. Care for a refresher?

Quebec's 'father of medicare' testifies for more privatization

Mr. Castonguay not Mr. Hall

Originally Posted by cdarro

2. Mr. Castonguay may well have been instrumental in Quebec's medical insurance system. But Quebec is not Canada. It is one province.

3 . Quebec is not and has never been the richest province in Canada. Historically it has been a net beneficiary of confederation through transfer payments from the federal government. Since the 1960s there have generally been only three provinces that are net contributors - Ontario, Alberta and British Columbia.

You simply have no idea what you're talking about, and show your ignorance by presuming to speak on matters on which you are grievously mis- or disinformed. I'm sure you have more "articles" from whatever right wing thinktank you are mining purporting to support your point of view, but the fact remains: you don't live here. I do.

The only person proving they don't know what they are talking about is you.


Paul Krugman makes a fool of himself: Eyeblast.tv

Those who are enamored with the idea of a single payer health care system like to point to Canada as an example that works. Paul Krugman, an advocate of such a system, participated in a health care forum a few weeks back, during which he took the opportunity to conduct a spontaneous poll. He asked whether Canadians were present in the audience. Approximately seven people raised their hands. He asked those who identified themselves as Canadians how many of them thought "they had a terrible health care system." The same Canadians raised their hands. This surprised and embarrassed Krugman, who clearly overestimated Canadians' enthusiasm for government run health care. He seemed to think all Canadians were enthusiastic about waiting in queues for weeks to see a specialist, or for months to get a necessary diagnostic test or even to receive treatment for a life threatening illness like cancer. The undeniable and inconvenient truth of all single payer health care systems that are in existence today is that access to health care is rationed in order to control the costs that inevitably balloon as a result of increased demand; while simultaneously, medical professionals are driven out of the industry by bureaucratic micromanagement and lower pay, leaving fewer doctors to treat more patients. -Canada's Stealth Private Health Care by Kim Priestap

In June, 2005, the Supreme Court of Canada issued a landmark judgment, striking down Quebec's ban on using private insurance for services covered by medicare when waits are unreasonably long.

The court said if the public system cannot deliver care in a timely manner then access to alternatives (that is, insurance and private care) should not be outlawed.

The ruling was a victory for George Zeliotis and Dr. Jacques Chaoulli, who had argued that prohibiting private health insurance jeopardizes the well-being of people who desperately need treatment. -Private health care slips under radar by Andre Picard

You said the idea is dead Is it? No:

The Quebec government has backed down on earlier restrictions and will now allow physicians and surgeons to practise simultaneously in both participating and non-participating CMS.
That means, theoretically at least, a surgeon could tell a patient that their surgery is available in three weeks at a publicly-funded CMS but the next day at a privately funded CMS.
And it means that people with the means - cash or private insurance - can jump the queue to get these procedures more quickly.
This is what is traditionally called two-tier health care.
There are, of course, diverging views on the wisdom of approaches like contracting out, mixing private and public delivery of care and extra-billing. British Columbia and Alberta are taking approaches similar to Quebec, and every other province and territory is watching. -Private health care slips under radar by Andre Picard

10th Anniversary Edition - Health Care in Canada Survey
This is the tenth edition of the Health Care in Canada Survey, the most comprehensive survey of Canadian public and health care providers’ opinions on health care issues.

A decade ago, lack of funding and government cutbacks were deemed the most important issues. In 2008, wait times and the shortage of doctors top the list.Other issues surveyed included timeliness and access to care and environmental health issues such as air and water pollution. -CHA

The following youtube clip about sums it up:

YouTube - ObamaCare Yay Or Nay? The Truth About Canada!​

 

[b.c.]

I would say she is the poster child for proof that a dimwitted, airheaded, buffoon of a nobody can get 100 million+ left-wingers stirred into a tizzy 24/7 for a year and a half....and counting.

Well, I wouldn't be quite so demeaning of that 100mil plus if I were you. Perhaps they're merely "misinformed".

 

[DaveUSADAV]

Relating to MAXCOK experiences which emulate my own with Kaiser ( I'm a disabled Vietnam veteran and now prefer to get most of my care at the VA ) and the rediculous arguments by Trinity- of course people with money get better care and Canada can't stop this capitalistic and greedy bribery and of course there are lines and delays everywhere, gosh, even at the Olive Garden and Disneyland lo and behold, but Canadians still love their health care and improvements will come- but the fact remains in the USA 45,000 people die each year because they don't have medical insurance and can't get care because they can't afford it. That is terrorism...domestic terrorism. That is war. The health insurance companies are terrorists and should be tried and hanged as terrorists. End of story.

 

[justasimpleguy]

I'm not sure about terrorism. But they should definitely be in jail for crimes against humanity.

 

[maxcok]

Honestly bitch, do you really think anybody reads your crap anymore? Are you really that delusional? Nobody cares what you say, and you take up waaay too much space on this board. And once and for all, shut the fuck up with the "Obamacare". Nobody's offended by that, you just show yourself to be a complete fanatical loon every time you say it. We're laughing at you, fool. Are you clueless about everything? You don't need to answer that.

Y'all can skip the rest of this, same ole fanatical rant, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and o . . . . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Industrialsize [URL]http://www.lpsg.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/URL]
It's funny........that doesn't appear to be the experience of the many Candian LPSG'ers who have posted here.

YouTube - ObamaCare Yay Or Nay? The Truth About Canada!


Quote:
Originally Posted by cdarro [URL]http://www.lpsg.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/URL]
Same story here, couldn't have put the first paragraph any better. Can't comment on major surgery personally, as I have never had any I'd consider major, but family members have, and no unreasonable waits.


You have never been able to support your position Cdarro. Care for a refresher?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinity [URL]http://www.lpsg.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/URL]
Quebec's 'father of medicare' testifies for more privatization

Mr. Castonguay not Mr. Hall

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdarro

2. Mr. Castonguay may well have been instrumental in Quebec's medical insurance system. But Quebec is not Canada. It is one province.

3 . Quebec is not and has never been the richest province in Canada. Historically it has been a net beneficiary of confederation through transfer payments from the federal government. Since the 1960s there have generally been only three provinces that are net contributors - Ontario, Alberta and British Columbia.

You simply have no idea what you're talking about, and show your ignorance by presuming to speak on matters on which you are grievously mis- or disinformed. I'm sure you have more "articles" from whatever right wing thinktank you are mining purporting to support your point of view, but the fact remains: you don't live here. I do.
The only person proving they don't know what they are talking about is you.


Paul Krugman makes a fool of himself: Eyeblast.tv

Quote:
Those who are enamored with the idea of a single payer health care system like to point to Canada as an example that works. Paul Krugman, an advocate of such a system, participated in a health care forum a few weeks back, during which he took the opportunity to conduct a spontaneous poll. He asked whether Canadians were present in the audience. Approximately seven people raised their hands. He asked those who identified themselves as Canadians how many of them thought "they had a terrible health care system." The same Canadians raised their hands. This surprised and embarrassed Krugman, who clearly overestimated Canadians' enthusiasm for government run health care. He seemed to think all Canadians were enthusiastic about waiting in queues for weeks to see a specialist, or for months to get a necessary diagnostic test or even to receive treatment for a life threatening illness like cancer. The undeniable and inconvenient truth of all single payer health care systems that are in existence today is that access to health care is rationed in order to control the costs that inevitably balloon as a result of increased demand; while simultaneously, medical professionals are driven out of the industry by bureaucratic micromanagement and lower pay, leaving fewer doctors to treat more patients. -Canada's Stealth Private Health Care by Kim Priestap
Quote:
In June, 2005, the Supreme Court of Canada issued a landmark judgment, striking down Quebec's ban on using private insurance for services covered by medicare when waits are unreasonably long.

The court said if the public system cannot deliver care in a timely manner then access to alternatives (that is, insurance and private care) should not be outlawed.

The ruling was a victory for George Zeliotis and Dr. Jacques Chaoulli, who had argued that prohibiting private health insurance jeopardizes the well-being of people who desperately need treatment. -Private health care slips under radar by Andre Picard
You said the idea is dead Is it? No:

Quote:
The Quebec government has backed down on earlier restrictions and will now allow physicians and surgeons to practise simultaneously in both participating and non-participating CMS.
That means, theoretically at least, a surgeon could tell a patient that their surgery is available in three weeks at a publicly-funded CMS but the next day at a privately funded CMS.
And it means that people with the means - cash or private insurance - can jump the queue to get these procedures more quickly.
This is what is traditionally called two-tier health care.
There are, of course, diverging views on the wisdom of approaches like contracting out, mixing private and public delivery of care and extra-billing. British Columbia and Alberta are taking approaches similar to Quebec, and every other province and territory is watching. -Private health care slips under radar by Andre Picard
Quote:
10th Anniversary Edition - Health Care in Canada Survey
This is the tenth edition of the Health Care in Canada Survey, the most comprehensive survey of Canadian public and health care providers’ opinions on health care issues.

A decade ago, lack of funding and government cutbacks were deemed the most important issues. In 2008, wait times and the shortage of doctors top the list.Other issues surveyed included timeliness and access to care and environmental health issues such as air and water pollution. -CHA
The following youtube clip about sums it up:

YouTube - ObamaCare Yay Or Nay? The Truth About Canada!​

 

[cdarro]

YouTube - ObamaCare Yay Or Nay? The Truth About Canada!




You have never been able to support your position Cdarro. Care for a refresher?

Same old same old. It's odd how you seem to think that I have a "position". I am not compulsively trolling websites for ideological propaganda, using slanted op-ed pieces and taking media quotes out of context. I previously addressed your cliches, but you simply tune out or shift ground.

I have related my experiences within our health care system. If you choose not to believe me, that's just fine. Canadians couldn't care less what the US does with its health care. But we do not appreciate being misrepresented and lied about.

 

[maxcok]

You have never been able to support your position Cdarro. Care for a refresher?

The only person proving they don't know what they are talking about is you.

Really cdarro, just because you are Canadian, live in Canada and use the Canadian healthcare system, what makes you think you know more about the Canadian healthcare system and what goes on with Canadians using the Canadian healthcare system in Canada than the Holey ?

I mean, really!

 

[B_VinylBoy]

WOW... the bitch has totally snapped.

 

[justasimpleguy]

Yes, she has. It's kinda funny.