Palin went to Canada to get health care

[midlifebear]

I had knee surgery a few weeks ago. It was surgery to correct "experimental" surgery performed by a guy in SLC who no longer works in medicine. Back in 1980 when I had the first surgery, I had to cough up 20% of $30,000+ (and it was outpatient surgery). So, I dipped into savings and found $6,000+ to pay off leftover medical expenses. I then discovered I had to pay for all of the subsequent physical therapy for 3 months. That was painful (the cost of therapy). At the time, the money I spent on physical therapy was enough to pay for half of a new Cadillac.

This time, it looks like I'm going to be living pain-free. Surgery went fine. Unfortunately, I'll be wasting too much time hanging out on the Internet for at least another couple of months. (I hope it will be less.) Physical therapy doesn't cost a dime. In fact, a van comes by and picks me up for my twice a day appointments Monday through Saturday.

And my surgeon, a swell guy, shows up about every 10 days at my home to check in on me. Yup. He makes house calls. I've broached the subject of how much an orthopedic surgeon makes (ball park figure) in Spain: 120,000 to 200,000€. He qualified for medical school by competing with excellent grades and attaining the highest scores on medical entrance exams. He also had to pass a psychiatric evaluation. Apparently, Spain's government wants to do what it can to weed out the potential Hannibal Lectors.

Some years he makes less. Some years he makes more. His taxes are about the same as mine (a blt less, for his taxes are "income" not taxes generated from capital gains). His medical school costs were minimal, because his education was mostly underwritten by the government. A requirement of what we would call his "residency" had to be completed in a clinic/hospital in another EU country. So, he's multilingual. Not all EU countries have the same type of system as Spain, but Spain (despite the Chicken Littles in another forum) has been trying to do things right by it's citizens. Even before Franco finally died the Spanish system of public health was better than what we have to put up with in the USA.

Also, not all physicians make the kind of money my surgeon does. It depends upon the tool kit of skills necessary to be an Inernist, Obgyn, etc. There is one problem, however, that all physicians seem to be in agreement about. The public hospitals like to get rid of physicians when they turn 60-ish so the government isn't burdened with a bunch of 65+ year-old doctors living on full government pensions. After all, people live longer here than they do in the USA. Part of a Spaniard's longevity is due to the litres of olive oil he or she consumes daily, but it's also a direct result of having good health care readily available.

Oh, and it's free.

 

[D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III]

My experience with the US health care system has not been a horror story with respect to access to care, or the actual treatment received. I have almost always had some sort of health insurance through the various employers I've had over the years. I've had, at different times, HMO and PPO plans.

In the main, I have been able to schedule an appointment either the same day or the following day for an illness. For "checkups", diagnostic explorations, and especially "well-baby" appointments, they generally look to schedule one out a few weeks in the future.

The quality of care has of course varied. But overall, I have been relatively pleased with the care I have received. I have been to some doctors who did not inspire confidence in me, and I have been to offices that were less than bright, shiny beacons of design and upkeep. But I've also had some ace specialists, and some family doctors that were very, very good.

My problem with the system is that, even after paying hundreds a month for "insurance", one still faces monumental expenses for anything other than a regular office visit to treat a garden variety illness. Need some pictures taken? Lab work? A referral to a specialist? Be prepared to cough up a considerable amount of cash. Need some super-special-pictures (e.g., CT scans, MRI)? Be prepared for a 4-figure bill. Need hospitalization, surgery, or other "exotic" procedure? You'd better be very wealthy, or else you're looking at a major life change (see, for example, bankruptcy, a second mortgage on your house (if you have one, and can qualify), a crushing loan that will hang over you like a dark shroud for the rest of your life, etc., etc.).

Facing shockingly oppressive financial burdens merely by virtue of accessing the health care system is a BIG PROBLEM. It's indicative of a broken system. Good quality care is worthless if you can't access it, and it's a cruel system that offers health care, and then ruins a person for trying to accept the offer. Anyone defending the current system is either filthy rich, married to someone who is filthy rich, or a heartless partisan hack.*



*Or perhaps a major shareholder in a health insurance company.

Thats the ticket invest in health insurance companies and make back your premiums. Everyone wins. Instead of buying that pack of smokes or bucket of KFC, buy some Blue Cross Blue Shield.

 

[midlifebear]

It'll be interesting to hear how much Big_E's rotator cuff surgery and hernia operations are going to cost him out-of-pocket. :biggrin1:

 

[D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III]

It'll be interesting to hear how much Big_E's rotator cuff surgery and hernia operations are going to cost him out-of-pocket. :biggrin1:

never had a hernia, no need for the rotator cuff. my shoulder needs replaced it's totally shot. I don't want to know what that will cost but i did it to my self so I have no one else to blame, certainly not the insurance companies.

Now talk bulging discs to me. my premium is $495 every 2 months. I have a ppo with $500 deductable. Just recently have had a couple MRI's and need some shots in my spine. I'm in $2000+. the good news is I can see who ever I want and get what I need done. That's less than the $3000 I spent repairing my truck that some asshole decided to sideswipe in the parking lot and not leave a note.

The way I look at it I pay a little bit more than twice what I pay for auto insurance. A healthy body is worth more than that to me.


As far as my last post goes all americans are investors (stakeholders) in our government. The irony is the more you put out the less you get back while the less you put out the more you get back. Tell me that's not fucked up. And you want them to run health care?

 

[finsuptx]

never had a hernia, no need for the rotator cuff. my shoulder needs replaced it's totally shot. I don't want to know what that will cost but i did it to my self so I have no one else to blame, certainly not the insurance companies.

Now talk bulging discs to me. my premium is $495 every 2 months. I have a ppo with $500 deductable. Just recently have had a couple MRI's and need some shots in my spine. I'm in $2000+. the good news is I can see who ever I want and get what I need done. That's less than the $3000 I spent repairing my truck that some asshole decided to sideswipe in the parking lot and not leave a note.

The way I look at it I pay a little bit more than twice what I pay for auto insurance. A healthy body is worth more than that to me.


As far as my last post goes all americans are investors (stakeholders) in our government. The irony is the more you put out the less you get back while the less you put out the more you get back. Tell me that's not fucked up. And you want them to run health care?

And the good news is nothing will change for you if this healthcare bill passes. The only difference you might ever notice is that your insurer won't be able to drop you if you have a catastrophic illness or they decide you're "too sick". :biggrin1:

 

[deleted15807]

My problem with the system is that, even after paying hundreds a month for "insurance", one still faces monumental expenses for anything other than a regular office visit to treat a garden variety illness. Need some pictures taken? Lab work? A referral to a specialist? Be prepared to cough up a considerable amount of cash. Need some super-special-pictures (e.g., CT scans, MRI)? Be prepared for a 4-figure bill. Need hospitalization, surgery, or other "exotic" procedure? You'd better be very wealthy, or else you're looking at a major life change (see, for example, bankruptcy, a second mortgage on your house (if you have one, and can qualify), a crushing loan that will hang over you like a dark shroud for the rest of your life, etc., etc.).

And no one on either side expects it to get better. In fact all indications are it's going to get much worse if we stay on the currency trajectory.

Soaring cost of healthcare sets a record


And with each passing year employers push more and more of this cost on the workers. There is no doubt that if reform doesn't pass we will be right back here again.

Why insurers don't control costs

 

[midlifebear]

never had a hernia, no need for the rotator cuff. my shoulder needs replaced it's totally shot. I don't want to know what that will cost but i did it to my self so I have no one else to blame, certainly not the insurance companies.

Now talk bulging discs to me. my premium is $495 every 2 months. I have a ppo with $500 deductable. Just recently have had a couple MRI's and need some shots in my spine. I'm in $2000+. the good news is I can see who ever I want and get what I need done. That's less than the $3000 I spent repairing my truck that some asshole decided to sideswipe in the parking lot and not leave a note.

The way I look at it I pay a little bit more than twice what I pay for auto insurance. A healthy body is worth more than that to me.


As far as my last post goes all americans are investors (stakeholders) in our government. The irony is the more you put out the less you get back while the less you put out the more you get back. Tell me that's not fucked up. And you want them to run health care?

Mr. Big_E:

We may have our major differences, but you have nothing but my sincere sympathy regarding your shoulder(s). You're profile notes you're 50. Count yourself lucky. If I could purchase insurance in the USA for the same that you are able to I would. I can easily afford $5,000 - $10,000 a year for health insurance. But insurance companies begin to find ways to make it impossible for those of us who pay our own premiums to continue without bilking us. In many instances, we would do better to pay the physician, hospital, nursing staff and anesthesiologist out of our own pockets. It would be cheaper.

And good for you not needing any type of hernia repaired. There's a clinic in SLC that specializes in inguinal hernias for folks with or without insurance. A regular no special problems inguinal fix it and go home job costs $795. Considering the cost of anesthesiology, that's rather amazing. Of course, prices slide up if you have problems like asthma, hypertension, or some sort of chronic condition that also needs special monitoring while your under and they're cutting and sewing. I dragged my morbidly obese brother (when he was alive) to that clinic and their finished work included them cutting out several pounds of useless fat that was in the surgeon's way so he could more easily fix the hernia.

And good luck with the spinal injections. These days it's rare for anyone to have old-fashioned back surgery, although surgeons are surgeons and just LOVE to cut, even when there is no real need. Taking my father to a back pain clinic that specialized in steroidal injections was a miraculous experience. I helped him hobble into the clinic. Two hours later they had me help him put on his socks and and I sat with him for another hour as the Versed wore off. He practically skipped out of the clinic to the car and remained completley pain-free the rest of his life. He kept waiting for the back pain to return, but it never did. I worry about spinal compression problems, too. There was a time (a very stupid time) in my life I was convinced I needed to do squats loaded down with weights. My old posse of gym rats, including me, had decided just being fit and toned was no longer enough when our metabolisms changed in our 40s. So, we all started gulping down DHEA, loads of "muscle packs" and began power lifting. I was lucky. I ended up moving out of the country and changing my life (job, routine, neighbors) while my gym posse continued to wear down all the cartilage in their joints that they could. I swear I'm the only one out of my old gym buddies who is still the same height as I was in the 1980s. I'm also not bent over or wake up in general joint pain -- yet. But that will happen from just living enough years.

However, changing over from being a gym rat to daily pilates and yoga was not an easy thing to do, as well as cutting back on the loads of calories I was once able to consume and never worry about gaining weight that wasn't muscle.

So, I take back calling you a meat puppet. I've raised you in my estimation to a big chunk of meat. Trust me, it's a compliment. :smile:

 

[maxcok]

I had knee surgery a few weeks ago. It was surgery to correct "experimental" surgery performed by a guy in SLC who no longer works in medicine. Back in 1980 when I had the first surgery, I had to cough up 20% of $30,000+ (and it was outpatient surgery). So, I dipped into savings and found $6,000+ to pay off leftover medical expenses. I then discovered I had to pay for all of the subsequent physical therapy for 3 months. That was painful (the cost of therapy). At the time, the money I spent on physical therapy was enough to pay for half of a new Cadillac.

This time, it looks like I'm going to be living pain-free. Surgery went fine. Unfortunately, I'll be wasting too much time hanging out on the Internet for at least another couple of months. (I hope it will be less.) Physical therapy doesn't cost a dime. In fact, a van comes by and picks me up for my twice a day appointments Monday through Saturday.

And my surgeon, a swell guy, shows up about every 10 days at my home to check in on me. Yup. He makes house calls. I've broached the subject of how much an orthopedic surgeon makes (ball park figure) in Spain: 120,000 to 200,000€. He qualified for medical school by competing with excellent grades and attaining the highest scores on medical entrance exams. He also had to pass a psychiatric evaluation. Apparently, Spain's government wants to do what it can to weed out the potential Hannibal Lectors.

Some years he makes less. Some years he makes more. His taxes are about the same as mine (a blt less, for his taxes are "income" not taxes generated from capital gains). His medical school costs were minimal, because his education was mostly underwritten by the government. A requirement of what we would call his "residency" had to be completed in a clinic/hospital in another EU country. So, he's multilingual. Not all EU countries have the same type of system as Spain, but Spain (despite the Chicken Littles in another forum) has been trying to do things right by it's citizens. Even before Franco finally died the Spanish system of public health was better than what we have to put up with in the USA.

Also, not all physicians make the kind of money my surgeon does. It depends upon the tool kit of skills necessary to be an Inernist, Obgyn, etc. There is one problem, however, that all physicians seem to be in agreement about. The public hospitals like to get rid of physicians when they turn 60-ish so the government isn't burdened with a bunch of 65+ year-old doctors living on full government pensions. After all, people live longer here than they do in the USA. Part of a Spaniard's longevity is due to the litres of olive oil he or she consumes daily, but it's also a direct result of having good health care readily available.

Oh, and it's free.

Oh, the HORRORS of socialism! Can you imagine a government that guarantees the health of its citizens and provides free higher education? I mean what are they thinking? Do they foolishly think this might provide a better quality of life for the whole citizenry? Do they, like so many other modern industrial nations, suffer the delusion that having a healthy well functioning educated society allows them to compete better on the world stage? Ignorant commies!!!

Thank God we have plenty of real Muricans backed up by corporations to protect us from this slide into Marxist hell! We will not be left in the dust!!! No not we! We will scream and holler and shout down anyone who tells these evil lies!!! And fuck those ungrateful commie bastards who waste all their money on social programs, forcing us to spend a fortune on our military - so we can fulfill our God-given duty to serve as the policeman of the world - whether they think we're justified or not, and whether they support our actions or not!!! Cause we are the REAL AMERICANS, and we're going to TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK!!! What's left of it.

Hoo-rah!!!!!! Now where's my goddam tea??!!!

 

[midlifebear]

Whoa, Trigger. While we're waiting for the tea water to boil, chomp down into this here bucket of oats. :smile:

 

[maxcok]

Fuck you, commie fag!

 

[ZOS23xy]

wow. original. even better the second time.
you and Buildingtaunt should team up on the comedy circuit.
but that might require you learning to read.

:wink:

This says loads about the Palinites.

These jokes have been stale and dim witted the moment they were uttered three years ago.

 

[D_Tully Tunnelrat]

Reading these medical tales of woe, I feel incredibly fortunate to have gotten off light both in terms of ailments, and expenses. Age wise I am not far off from several of you on here. Both Big_E and MLB have my sympathies for their ailments.

MLB that you've been shot 3X, twice in the Castro-Twin Peaks area, albeit during the '70s, does trip me out. How are you even walking around with that unfortunate track record??? I would like to know how your left elbow works now. I know your brain works fine, so the long term effects of your head wound have been minimal, if any.

What's so utterly confounding about the entire debate is that basic doctor visits are cheap, and in fact could be conducted by a nurse, with physician review, just like visiting the dentist. Comprehensive physicals run from $200-1,100K: about half the price of a brief (sans ambulance) emergency room stay. Surely, without even 5 minutes of debate, we can agree that the US can afford this basic level of care for all, and that health care should categorically not be tied to your job. Hell, 2 or 3 sick days cost more than most physicals. I'll gladly pay my fair share, and I already pay buckets of dough in taxes.

 

[midlifebear]

Duc10023: Thanks for the concern about my elbow. The truth is, it still hurts and remains quite stiff. I have to "warm it up" each morning in the shower or tub along with a stretching regime or it (I've been told) will eventually just freeze up. The bone surgeon who put it back together was quite up front with me. He admitted that when he was through with the reparative surgery he had a couple of bits of bone left over and didn't know where to put them, so he threw them away.

But check the local Bay Area papers for this last week. A trio of brothers took a cam corder and a BB gun (fortunately, just a BB gun) going around San Francisco and shooting men they thought "looked" gay. At first they were let go on a small bond at arraignment. But when the arresting police discovered their small video recorder with which the brothers were dumb enough to record everyone they shot, instead of three men, they discovered the brothers had shot at least 11 more. So the brothers were re-arrested and are securely behind bars until a jury decides what to do with them.

Yup, teaching children bigotry and to hate, beat up, and pray for the deaths of homosexuals is still a Big Family Value taught in the USA. And this last incident was perpetrated by native San Franciscans IN San Francisco.

We just don't see that kind of hate crime in the streets of Barcelona OR Buenos Aires. However, Argentina has seen a big rise in murder against seniors and middle-class folks in their homes by youth hoping to get their hands on what often turns out to be less than 100 Pesos (about U$S33). And the hair dresser of local Argentine diva Susana Jimenez was shot and killed last year in his home, but it was a crime of "jealously and passion" rather than a hate crime.

 

[faceking]

I had knee surgery a few weeks ago. It was surgery to correct "experimental" surgery performed by a guy in SLC who no longer works in medicine. Back in 1980 when I had the first surgery, I had to cough up 20% of $30,000+ (and it was outpatient surgery). So, I dipped into savings and found $6,000+ to pay off leftover medical expen

More BS from the bullshit gallery.

 

[midlifebear]

More BS from the bullshit gallery.

Not bullshit. Sorry, FaceQueen. I learned early in life that there was no merit in making things up (by four of five years-old). Just because you're drunk or generally a foul mood type is no excuse for accusing others of bullshit.

Seriously, get some help. And while you're thumbing through the Yellow Pages, check out: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/03/12/BALL1CEUUK.DTL&tsp=1

Possibly those three teenagers from Hayward are your sons?

 

[D_Tully Tunnelrat]

MLB - glad to hear your elbow works, at least with some addnl daily TLC - that's a helluva burden to bear. I did check up on this story and it's sadly true: American can't get away from being rednecks, no matter where they are. You know they shut down the Castro Halloween festivities two years ago because of these anti-gay teenage posseys? What a shame, that was like Carnival; 300K strong, filled all of upper Market. In your day, all the shenanigans were on Polk St.

It is amazing that other cultures are not as threaten by gays as Americans. Even though I'm not gay, I just don't get it. You can walk down any village dirt road in India, and see two guys holding hands. They maybe brothers, or just friends, but there is no immediate supposition that they are gay, or that they deserve to be treated differently because of it. How do you suppose that would play in Palin's Alaska? Wonder if she would travel to India for cheap health care when her premiums are no longer affordable...

 

[midlifebear]

Duc10023: Nope, I was not aware that Hallowe'en on the Castro had been cancelled. That's sad news. I suppose the leather/tattoo/piercing/and porn vendor festival has been closed down as well. I forget what it was originally called, but it was always "over the top."

Our neighborhood is full of young families and the little concrete plaza/playgrounds fill up quickly after school lunch and once again when school is out for the day. But the community neighborhood, (La Grácia), is overtly homogenous. Gay couples walk around hand in hand and no one stares or even cares. You find old Catalán men playing chess with gay muscle-morphs in their 30s while the elderly gents' wives sit nearby and argue about "arroz con pollo." There's something about arguing over what ingredients and in what order one throws together chicken with rice that makes it a main subject for many arguments. It's sort of a place holder. They may be actually arguing about something else, the chicken with rice is the metaphor they can all agree to use for their arguments. And the beefy boys from DIR, our local gym, work out with the local police and also serve as public bouncers when the alcoholic/unwashed/too-many-tattoos/drug-using/homeless/unemployed start fighting among themselves in the public spaces. It's rare to need the police to break up problems. The police are always around to keep an eye on things, but in our part of BCN everyone sort of pitches in and we all seem to get along almost too well. Sadly, the same cannot be said about la Raval, Sans, or the hill side barrios immediately to the west.

There is also a neo-conservative christianist movement making noise through out the province of Catalunya, but they are a minority. Their noise-making is far too similar to that of the public rallies sponsored by Franco's fascist government. When those who lived under the thumb of Franco are all dead, possibly the christianist-neoconservatives will once again regain a position of disturbing everyone's peace. But unlike France, the new legal immigrants of Muslims into the city fit right in with everyone else. Although, there is a law being proposed that all signs in Arabic also inlcude a small translation in Castellano so everyone knows that a corner building hasn't been turned into the "Jihad Against the World Bomb and Bio Chemical Terrorist Training Center." Quebec has a similar law: French first, then small letters used to translate the French into English. It works.

The real issues that are a public danger are the radical demands yelled about by the ETA (Basques). They never show up and sit in their seats when government is in session. They still think bombing and an occasional assasination is the way to get what they want. But even they've calmed down. It seems that food is the big peace maker when it comes to the Basque and Catalánes. As for the rest of Spain, common ground has yet to be discovered.

But something amazing about the public schools in this country is that it's the government that oversees the information approved in public school text books. This is probably just as dangerous as having five bible thumping baptists decide what Texas school children should be exposed to. But so far Zapatero's government (the socialists) have expanded rather than diminished text book entries regarding the role of the neo conservatives who were in charge before Aznar (George W's pal) was summarily kicked out of office. Sr. Rajoy, Zapatero's nemesis, is also treated fairly and in depth. This is comparable to Republicans expanding positive information regarding LBJ in American History books. But I won't hold my breath to ever see that happen in the USA.:smile:

 

[D_Tully Tunnelrat]

I suppose the leather/tattoo/piercing/and porn vendor festival has been closed down as well. I forget what it was originally called, but it was always "over the top."

Actually the Folsom Street Fair (the Fur and Leather Fest) to which you refer, does still exist, as does Dykes on Bikes and Gay Pride Week - but both are daytime affairs. It's ironic that the Halloween festivities was the one that were canceled, given the innocent child-like/dress up nature of the occasion, but the cover of darkness makes it too easy for creeps to roam undetected, and in prior years too many guys were badly wounded, like yourself, so it was decided to end rather it than risk further harm.

Interesting what you have to say about attitudes there. Despite the recent cases of "gay-bashing" here, most communities are pretty tolerant, although in some there is vast room for improvement. It would be interesting to study attitudes towards male relations in multiple cultures. Sadly the US would be at the low end of the tolerance scale.

Loved your highlighting the ruse of arguing over food as metaphor for larger issues in life. You see this so much all over Europe. It's great theater, if you take it as such.