Parisian Riots

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Dr. Dilznick, Nov 11, 2005.

  1. Dr. Dilznick

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    The most ironic thing to me, especially in regards to the UK and France is that both of those countries major cities are literally being invaded by hordes of people from the third world - ironic because both the UK and France went and fucked these countries a century ago, now the mud races are coming back for revenge in London and Paris.

    I suppose it's like the Mexicans in the U.S.

    And this welfare shit is disgusting, you get so much money for doing nothing, no wonder you have so much more trouble over there, and I wont be surprised if crazy shit like this pops off more often. When you give money to people for doing nothing, they're gonna find a way to use their time.
     
  2. GottaBigOne

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    Its a result of racism, nothing more.
     
  3. Max

    Max New Member

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    "... invasion by hordes of people from the third world" is incorrect, and precisely the sort of language that stirs up trouble. Racism is involved, I agree with Gottabigone, but it can't be the whole answer.

    Part of the reason for the trouble in France is the high unemployment rate there, which affects certain immigrant communities (especially North Africans) disproportionately. Taking the welfare safety net away from people who are in any case French citizens for the most part is hardly the answer: no job, no benefits ... what recourse do you leave people but violence or crime?

    Another part of the story is the heightened concern everywhere about terrorism, and sometimes the over-reaction of the police and other part os the community to a perceived threat.

    It is a bit odd to hear an American berating France and my own country for a degree of openness in our immigration policies (not that they are that open) ... "send me your huddled masses ... " etc.
     
  4. Dr. Dilznick

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    Let me rephrase that -- invasion by hordes of people from less developed countries. As a matter of fact.


    Obviously.


    Results of quasi-socialism. The unemployment rates in France for 15- to 24-year-olds are 21.7%. The rates for North Africans and Negroes in that same demographic are much higher, yes. According to the French government, anyone in the world is entitled to have a job created to them by the French government. And the French government is doing a really shitty job of it. The only reason the unemployment rate is that low is because the rest of Africa hasn't yet decided to take France up on their offer.


    Good thing unemployment is like 75% full wages. I bet they got a lot of online professional poker players over there living in their mom's place.
     
  5. Dr. Dilznick

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    Oh, and I'm not saying that universal healthcare, etc. is bad, but the way that the welfare state is set up in Europe is bullshit. It's not that much different in the UK. They can buy whatever the fuck they want, just sit at home and rape British welfare while bringing over more of their relatives to do the same. I've seen hordes of people in London who can't speak or write a word of English, some parts of that city look just like Karachi. Similarly, the ghettoes of Paris reminded me of Algiers or some shit.

    My time in Europe has made me firmly in favor of capitalism. Fuck hand-outs, people need to work.
     
  6. tightfit

    tightfit New Member

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    I can assure you Dr. Dilznick that most tax paying, hard working people, here in the UK are thoroughly fed up of subsidising people who refuse to work, or play the system as much as they can to screw the tax payer. And we're fed up with people who claim to be British when the hand-outs are available and then blow up innocent people saying they are anti muslim.
    :mad:
     
  7. SpeedoGuy

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    And if there's no work to be found? Let them eat cake, I guess.
     
  8. Dr. Dilznick

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    Why is there no work to be found?

    There is also just an incommensurable value difference regarding education and qualification in European countries. In America, if an astrophysicist with no other skills can't get a job in astrophysics, we're fine with him becoming a cab driver. That type of thing doesn't happen in Europe, where they are much more sensitive to underemployment. It's just a cultural difference, and you have to remember that the majority of (continental) Europeans have no problems with people milking welfare because they are committed to the idea of safety nets.
     
  9. Dr Rock

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    who lives in the east 'neath the willow tree? Sex
    well then, it sure is funny how, as a so-called british "citizen" who hasn't been employed for going on 5 years, i've never received a penny from the british government. :rolleyes:
     
  10. Dr. Dilznick

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    Tell that to the Somalis in the market down the road.
     
  11. SpeedoGuy

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    Well, I wouldn't presume to know how the majority of Europeans feel about anything. Nor would I presume to know the reasons why some French communities break out into riots. I do, however, have a pretty good idea why communities don't riot. They don't riot when they have good access to jobs, education, housing, healthcare, recreation and equitable treatment under the law, among other things.

    SG
     
  12. Dr. Dilznick

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    Take it from someone who has lived in both London and Paris.


    The death of two teenage boys is what triggered it. Sarkozy's subsequent comments didn't help matters much either.


    Results of quasi-socialism. That, and the fact that the institutionalized marginalization in France is completely different from the US. Here we have done a much better job of assimilating minorities and such (to the extent that is possible). France does nothing for them besides give them fat welfare checks that encourage them to remain unemployed. Also, because of the labor regulation in France, racial issues play a much bigger part in hiring then in the US.
     
  13. Dr Rock

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    who lives in the east 'neath the willow tree? Sex
    my point is that you're oversimplifying the problem. the british government, for example, is desperately eager to flush vast sums of money down the bottomless toilets of "international aid" and "asylum seekers", but guards its cash like a nun's cunt whenever native-born british citizens try to ask for any.
     
  14. Dr. Dilznick

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    I wasn't talking about native-born British citizens in post #6. I guess I could have been more clear.
     
  15. GottaBigOne

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    No, racism is not the whole issue, but it the fundamental issue, it is what underlies all the other issues,e.g. the ostricization of the muslim community, the unequitable treatement of the muslim community, the self-identification of the muslim community as being apart from the rest of French society,.i.e. the lack of cultural assimilation.
     
  16. madame_zora

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    Okay, well here's a subject I've never really gone off about.

    I hate welfare.

    There, I said it. Disability is there for the disabled, Social Security is there for the elderly and some other cases, but welfare for able-bodied people makes me physically sick. I really don't care what their reasons are, they need to get off their asses and work. If I have to support myself, so should anyone else.

    If you can't afford all your children, DON'T HAVE SO MANY FUCKING CHILDREN!

    Now you know why I'm so staunch on AA, it beats the SHIT out of welfare. Put EVERYONE who can possible hold a job to work, and equality will work inself out in under 50 years, I'd bet my life on it. Instead, we have whole communities of institutionalised welfare and white guys are STILL bitching about black guys getting a shot at a job. How fucking retarded is that? You'd rather work hard and pay taxes so your black neighbor can sit home and collect a check? If a minority or woman who may otherwise be collecting a check is out looking for a job, GIVE HIM A FUCKING BREAK!
    That way we can get rid of this hideous system that is going to cause a collapse of our countries' finances.

    Importing people to put on welfare? Absurd. I'd give them three months to learn the language and get a job or they get a plane ride courtesy of the US government back to the city they came from. I bet if they knew that was coming, they'd try just a little harder. France might try that as well.

    I hate welfare almost as much as I hate "accidental children" as an excuse for it. I should NOT be financially responsible for someone else's moral decisions. If someone thinks sex is a sin, but does it anyway, but then decided abortion is a sin so they just have a shitload of kids they don't want and can't afford, I feel no compassion toward that situation nor do I feel it is my responisibility to pay taxes to support their morals. They are not being asked to support mine.

    Try having the amount of children you can afford to raise and work to support your own decisions. As long as we make it easy for the lazy to continue pressing the working for money, it will keep happening. Grr.
     
  17. GottaBigOne

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    So madam you feel that you are not financially responsible for someone' else's moral decisions. Then why do you feel (this is implied) that you should be financially responsible for someone who is disabled or old? Why does the fact that they are somehow unable to support themselves give them a right to the product of your ability?
     
  18. sopielamie

    sopielamie New Member

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    Why do we have Welfare ?
    I'm 24yrs old, and French, so I think I'm a perfect example...
    I have a student-job (called «apprentissage» 40H a week of work). And I only get 750€ for that. Substract the price of house rent (approx. 400€/month) and cost of food (150€/month), gas(at least 200€/month), internet&phone (50€/m), Credit for Computer and Car (100€/m), ... I would finish month with approx -150€.
    I get 206€ of "welfare" a month... What should I do ? Say I don't want it because a little part of people don't use it the way it should be used ? Have new wealthy parents ? or take another job to work for 80h/week and get depressed, alcoholic and a good customer for the Jerryspringershow ?


    :mad: Welfares are just consequence of unemployement, but unemployement is not the consequence of welfares... And peoples who live in a country that doesn't know "real" unemployment can't understand that. The capitalism effect in the last 10 years in France made that there is more unemployement than ever... It's now easier to fire people from work, but no new job had been created! That's the real effect of capitalism here, and that's why French peoples don't have a good idea about it.

    -sigh- Why didn't you just say THAT.


    :cool: > Anyway, I'm sure things will get better soon. Hope you'll don't blame French people for what our government do... Only 20% of people here chose it...
    (And I still love americans btw :rolleyes:)
     
  19. madame_zora

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    This is a moral decision that I agree with, that is all. We will all one day be old, so therefore I feel that paying into social security while I am working to benefit those elderly now gives me the right to draw from it when it's my turn. I am (in theory) contributing to something I will eventually benefit from. As for the disabled, I just feel it's a social responsibility to assist those who CANNOT fully care for themselves. Depending on the degree and nature of the disability, many of the disabled can hold some sort of job, but those who cannot still need to eat and live somehow. I am very willing to help in those cases. I am NOT "willing" although I have no choice in the matter, to pay the lazy to profit from my labor.

    I can only comment on the situation here in the US as I have never lived anywhere else, but I held two jobs while I was in college and have had many periods of time when I've had to work 80+ hours to make the boat float so I have no sympathy at all for anyone not willing to take the responsibility to care for themselves in the same manner. Just because someone WANTS an easier way doesn't make it MY job to provide it. If someone actually NEEDS help because they are mentally or physically incapable of doing it for themselves, I am happy to oblige.
     
  20. Pecker

    Pecker Retired Moderator
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    Those receiving Social Security payments for the disabled are receiving insurance benefits, not welfare.

    Apples and oranges.
     
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