Pastors handing in their sermons in Houston.

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deleted213967

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Hate speech cloaked in religious fundamentalism.

They have more in common with SOME sects of Islam than they think (in that both pervert the true message of their respective faiths).


To such sorts, "religious freedom" means the freedom to force their opinions, positions, and beliefs upon the rest of us...

...that, and the "freedom" to do so without anteing up THEIR fair share of TAXES.

What they fail to understand is that "separation of church and state" cuts BOTH ways.

Then what does it say about the 70% of black voters who favored banning same-sex marriage in the largest county of the nation's largest state, I wonder :rolleyes:

 

vince

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The headline makes it sound like Houston has established some Communist-style Bureau for Sermon Censorship.

Instead, it sounds like they are investigating whether these churches engaged in direct support of politicians or legislation, which as nonprofits they are not supposed to do.
Is a sermon expressing opinion about a law direct support of a politician? Based on what has gone on around other issues (abortion), I think they are allowed to support or oppose legislation.

Vetting speeches or sermons for hate before the fact is a step to far. Where does it stop? If they break the law in the act of speaking publicly, then authorities should take action.
 

Penis Aficionado

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Is a sermon expressing opinion about a law direct support of a politician? Based on what has gone on around other issues (abortion), I think they are allowed to support or oppose legislation.

Vetting speeches or sermons for hate before the fact is a step to far. Where does it stop? If they break the law in the act of speaking publicly, then authorities should take action.


If I read the original article correctly, they city isn't vetting sermons in advance. They subpoenaed the text of sermons already delivered to see if they broke the law.
 

b.c.

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Then what does it say about the 70% of black voters who favored banning same-sex marriage in the largest county of the nation's largest state, I wonder :rolleyes:


Well, I'm certain that a "fair minded" person such as YOURSELF didn't INTEND to pin it all on black folk ... ahem....

but if we want to be ACCURATE (especially one who'd go through lengths to debate the proper use of French and all that sh*t) we'd have to ALSO report that

black voters made up 10% of the electorate

John McCain supported prop 8

Newt Gingrich supported prop 8

Mitt Romney supported and (his organization) donated money in support of prop 8

more than HALF of Latinos supported prop 8

50% of whites supported prop 8

70% of CHRISTIANS supported prop 8

and

MARRIED voters and voters with [people whose age cannot be mentioned here] STRONGLY supported prop 8.

And heavily organized and well financed RELIGIOUS groups led the campaign in support of prop 8.


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2008/11/70-of-african-a.html


ALL of which, instead of REFUTING my statements, only serve to CONFIRM them.

And since you NO doubt know my position regarding throwing up one atrocity to defend or diminish ANOTHER, you should ALSO know my answer to all of this.

But since it's not in French, allow me to clarify:

IT'S HATE SPEECH ALL THE SAME!!!!!!!!!

GOT it???????
 
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deleted213967

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Houston Mayor Says City’s Sermon Subpoenas Came as a Surprise - Law Blog - WSJ

Whatever happened to absorbing the facts before oozing imbecilic pieties?

This gross abuse of local executive power has strictly nothing to do with taxpayer money (since when do liberals care about fiscal discipline anyhow?) or support for a politician.

It only deals only with a petition drive to repeal Houston's lesbian mayor's ordinance to add more city-level anti-discrimination protections, notably around sexual orientation.

Nothing wildly controversial so far.

Regretfully for her, a petition drive gathered far more signatures (50,000+) than the requisite number (17,000-odd) to either repeal the ordinance, or put it in front of voters.

Rather than selling the wisdom of her ordinance to the electorate, the mayor had some shyster invalidate most of the signatures, leading to a legal dispute with opponents of the ordinance.

I am neither religious nor do I find the ordinance that outlandish, but the abuse of power and the pettiness of the local government bureaucracy doesn't pass the smell test.



 
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deleted213967

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Well, I'm certain that a "fair minded" person such as YOURSELF didn't INTEND to pin it all on black folk ... ahem....

black voters make up 10% of the electorate


IT'S HATE SPEECH ALL THE SAME!!!!!!!!!

GOT it???????

Dodging the question again? No worries...it was only rhetorical.
 

chrysler fanatic

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Constitution protects SPEECH. It shouldn't matter what it is. We should all want to protect any speech whether it is hateful or not. I'm disgusted by what lots of people say, but hey, this is America.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I'll defend to death your right to say it!" -S.G. Tallentyre
 

malakos

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What do you think? Does this go against 1st Amendment rights? Just opening this thread for discussion.

It's strong-arming, bullying, and unnecessarily invasive, plainly and simply.

And it's part of a long, ongoing thought policing (of certain sectors of the right-wing) that has arisen after the defeat of the fascist Axis, and seems to have started with punishment of Holocaust denial. Since then it's been expanding and broadening in its scope, targeting more and more mundane expressions of the right-wing.
 

averagepat

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Hate speech is not protected. If there's no hate speech in their sermons, they have nothing to worry about.

Hate speech most certainly IS protected speech under 1st Amendment. That is a result of the Snyder v. Phelps Supreme Court case. That allowed the Westboro Baptist Church to espouse their hate at the funerals of soldiers
 

malakos

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craigsmith

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If the pastor is presenting scripture from the bible about homosexuality or stealing or someone who lies, or adultery, or anything in that vain, is that hate speech? I don't think so. Some may think it is hate speech because of their beliefs and other not, because of their beliefs. Speech is protected under the 1st amendment. All speech!! If it starts here where will it end. I also don't think guys should use womens restrooms and visa versa. If it is a single bathroom with a lock on the door - that is fine, other wise separate bathrooms.
 

StormfrontFL

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If the pastor is presenting scripture from the bible about homosexuality or stealing or someone who lies, or adultery, or anything in that vain, is that hate speech? I don't think so. Some may think it is hate speech because of their beliefs and other not, because of their beliefs. Speech is protected under the 1st amendment. All speech!! If it starts here where will it end. I also don't think guys should use womens restrooms and visa versa. If it is a single bathroom with a lock on the door - that is fine, other wise separate bathrooms.
It seems you are missing the point. Lecturing from the Bible is one thing, however using the pulpit or sermon to stump for a political party or candidate is another. No church should get away with that and still hope for tax exemption. In other words...preach what the Bible says about homosexuality(okay) but tell your parishioners that they MUST vote against same sex marriage(not okay)
 
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deleted213967

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It seems you are missing the point. Lecturing from the Bible is one thing, however using the pulpit or sermon to stump for a political party or candidate is another. No church should get away with that and still hope for tax exemption. In other words...preach what the Bible says about homosexuality(okay) but tell your parishioners that they MUST vote against same sex marriage(not okay)

Like telling your parishioners to vote for Proposition 8 and ban same-sex marriage in CA?...:rolleyes:


and for the n-th time, read the facts before pontificating about the inconvenience of the First Amendment to some people at the distant end of the political spectrum.

This affair is about an invalidated petition regarding a city ordinance, not a political candidate or party.
 

Fuzzy_

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Like telling your parishioners to vote for Proposition 8 and ban same-sex marriage in CA?...:rolleyes:


and for the n-th time, read the facts before pontificating about the inconvenience of the First Amendment to some people at the distant end of the political spectrum.

This affair is about an invalidated petition regarding a city ordinance, not a political candidate or party.

Then why are all of the right-wing blogs claiming that the Mayor had the subpoenas issued? Could it be that they're wrong? Could it be that the HERO legal team simply did normal pre-trial discovery in getting relevant evidence about those challenging the bill (church leaders)?
 

vince

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If I read the original article correctly, they city isn't vetting sermons in advance. They subpoenaed the text of sermons already delivered to see if they broke the law.
Yes you are right. I misread that.

I have no problem with churches expressing political opinion or promoting agendas. They've been doing it for years and not only in the USA. All those right-wing TV evangelists have had political agendas. Many churches are active in the anti-abortion movement. The RC Church was always cozy with politicians represent certain ethic groups that composed a large majority of their membership base. Churches were very active and influential in the US civil rights movement and in opposing the Vietnam War.

People getting their knickers in a knot over some churches opposing gay rights seems a bit strange to me. Should churches and pastors that support gay marriage STFU as well?

If they use hate speech then they should be prosecuted of course. But this looks like it could just be an intimidation tactic by some people in the city government and if that's the case then it's an abuse of power.