Pat Robertson

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by jay_too, Oct 11, 2003.

  1. jay_too

    jay_too New Member

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    The U.S. State Department has condemned an on-air suggestion by religious broadcaster Pat Robertson that the agency ought to be blown up with a nuclear device.

    Robertson, a Bush supporter

    [AP, 10/11/03]


    It is amazing that many conservative Christians in the U.S. denigerate fundamental Muslims for their tendency toward violent rhetoric and violence in general. Yet here is one of their leaders espousing a terrorist attack on the U.S.

    Shame on the Rev. Pat Roberson!
    Shame on any Christian who does not condemn this terrorist call to action!

    Why doesn't Ashcroft put him in material-witness custody? Maybe Pat could become buddies with Moussoui or learn about shoe bombs from Richard Reed.

    jay
     
  2. Imported

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    longtimelurker: I'm sorry mate, but I really doubt that he meant it seriously. Not knowing the guy or his programmes, I'd still imagine he would be quite apalled if someone really DID pull off a nuclear attack on American soil.

    One of my (seemingly endless) gripes is when newspapers (mainly tabloids, I feel) pounce on any figure of speech and take it completely literally. I have used 'it should have a bomb put under it' many times for things that should just be got rid of and restarted - I don't mean that someone should get a REAL bomb and kill a ton of people.

    This phenomena has led (at least over here) to all politicians having to lack any character in case they say something that could be misconstrued leading to 'anonymous sources' and no real opinions other than those eminating from the top. I mean, what is a democracy if our own politicians are unable to instigate debate in fear of having their views twisted by the media?
     
  3. jonb

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    [quote author=longtimelurker link=board=99;num=1065906460;start=0#1 date=10/11/03 at 15:44:10]I'm sorry mate, but I really doubt that he meant it seriously.[/quote]
    And a six-year-old doesn't seriously shoot someone with his finger, but make-believe guns consisting of a thumb and index finger aren't allowed on school grounds.
     
  4. Imported

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    hawl: I'm more amused than outraged by this story, and as a Democrat I'm pleased that in his later years the well-educated, polite, generally sleek power broker Pat Robertson is starting to give his enemies (and comedians) such ammunition (so to speak!). I don't think David Kay should be immediately dispatched to find Robertson's WMD stockpile, but what most strikes me is that it's not Ted Kennedy but Colin Powell who is outraged and complaining. You know Republican strategists are hastily conferring with Robertson right now, saying basically "Dude, we have the White House! Powell is not Noam Chomsky, he's a Republican, and a popular one at that! Will you #@$%^& chill?! Take it down a notch!". This all shows off the continuing schism between the Powell wing of the Republican Party and the more neoconservative-dominated wing. Here's a short article on the story-www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35036. I'm all for testing the limits of free speech, though when you think about it, since when is Robertson?
     
  5. Pecker

    Pecker Retired Moderator
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    Unfortunately, as Pat Robertson becomes more aged, about the most intelligent secular thing that comes out of his mouth is a burp.

    Pecker

    (Nobody hears you unless you fart.)
     
  6. Imported

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    SpeedoGuy: [quote author=longtimelurker link=board=99;num=1065906460;start=0#1 date=10/11/03 at 15:44:10]I'm sorry mate, but I really doubt that he meant it seriously. Not knowing the guy or his programmes, I'd still imagine he would be quite apalled if someone really DID pull off a nuclear attack on American soil.

    [/quote]

    I'm not so sure.

    Over the years Pat Robertson has made the following public claims:

    * The Sept 11th attacks were God's vengeance on America and New York City for "immorality."

    * Earthquakes were God's punishment for California's tolerance for the homosexual lifestyle.

    * Hurricanes would more frequently hit the U.S. if America does not change its path away from fundamentalist Christianity

    * God would strike Pat Robertson him dead if more contributions didn't arrive into his fund raising coffers.


    Thoughtful folks may be tempted to write off Pat Robertson's comments as hyperbole and exaggeration but what will the weaker minded think? How many nascent Tim McVeighs are brewing out there right now goaded on by this kind of rhetoric?

    SG
     
  7. Imported

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    da_blissmachine: If Ashcroft were to detain all terrorists in the US, he would have to detain himself..........
     
  8. Imported

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    longtimelurker: [quote author=SpeedoGuy link=board=99;num=1065906460;start=0#5 date=10/11/03 at 23:54:48]

    I'm not so sure.

    Over the years Pat Robertson has made the following public claims:

    * The Sept 11th attacks were God's vengeance on America and New York City for "immorality."

    * Earthquakes were God's punishment for California's tolerance for the homosexual lifestyle.

    * Hurricanes would more frequently hit the U.S. if America does not change its path away from fundamentalist Christianity

    * God would strike Pat Robertson him dead if more contributions didn't arrive into his fund raising coffers.

    [/quote]

    Ah, he's one of those. We had something similar, but he was an Egyptian fundamentalist muslim (together with eye patch and hook instead of a hand). Obviously in the aftermath of Sep 11th this wasn't extremely popular amongst the people at large. I believe we eventually got him expelled from the country for inciting religious hatred, or somesuch (although I believe he appealed?).
     
  9. jay_too

    jay_too New Member

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    Yeah, I went a little over the top about Pat Robertson. But I have a friend of Pakistani-descent that has lived with the fear for two years that his parents and grandparents would be taken into protective or material-witness custody. Why? Well, they are muslims and not native-born citizens.

    Do I believe that if Iman Robertson had been broadcasting from his electronic mosque and calling for a nuclear detonation in Foggy Bottom, the feds would have been breaking down the doors? You betcha!!

    I think all who would be public figures need to calm down the rhetoric or suffer the consequences...like arrest and prosecution. So John Ashcroft, Where are you now when we need you?

    jay
     
  10. Imported

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    longtimelurker: [quote author=jay_too link=board=99;num=1065906460;start=0#8 date=10/13/03 at 07:31:46]
    Do I believe that if Iman Robertson had been broadcasting from his electronic mosque and calling for a nuclear detonation in Foggy Bottom, the feds would have been breaking down the doors? You betcha!!
    [/quote]

    Don't overestimate the speed of the government machine - the guy that I mentioned above was standing outside Finsbury Park mosque in London for a good year spouting how westerners were punished by Allah on Sep 11th etc. etc. to a small crowd of extremists (much to the dismay of the general public, and it must be said, the vast majority of the Muslim community here) before he was finally arrested and expelled from the country.
     
  11. Imported

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    SpeedoGuy: [quote author=longtimelurker link=board=99;num=1065906460;start=0#9 date=10/13/03 at 10:26:14]

    ...before he was finally arrested and expelled from the country.[/quote]

    Was this fellow part of the London radical mosque group (at least that's how they were portrayed in the US media) associated with the ricin poison scare?

    Just interested.

    SG

    ps I agree with jay_too that if anyone other than a fundamentalist Christian (ie the type Bush prefers) had uttered such threats against the government, they'd be in the federal slam already.
     
  12. Pecker

    Pecker Retired Moderator
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    I'm terribly disappointed that some of us have slipped into negative stereotyping.

    Fundamentalist, fundamentalist Christian, Imam can be used derogatorily for sure, but to blanket all those who fall into one of those categories as villains -- shame on you.

    Let's be civil here.

    Pecker

    (Age doesn't always bring wisdom. Sometimes age comes alone.)
     
  13. Imported

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    longtimelurker: [quote author=SpeedoGuy link=board=99;num=1065906460;start=0#10 date=10/13/03 at 11:37:35]
    Was this fellow part of the London radical mosque group (at least that's how they were portrayed in the US media) associated with the ricin poison scare?
    [/quote]

    Didn't think so at first, but it was at his mosque that seven of the suspects were arrested. I don't think he played any direct part in that affair, though.
     
  14. Imported

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    Maximillian: I live near where this nutcase practices what is one of the greatest frauds visited on the religious community. By the way, I am not "religious" I worship Mother Earth as the divine entity.

    It has been a problem with this man intimidating his elderly followers who are susceptible into sending him money each month, money alot of them cant spare. Do I believe he meant that statement? Yes I do, he will stoop to any level to bolster his butchering of biblical meaning.

    This man is referred to as the anti-christ by those who know what hes is about. Do I think he needs to be prosecuted for these comments? Yes I do then maybe the people he has hypnotized into believing anything he says will wake up.

    Just thought I would give a little info since I am sometimes subjected to news stories regarding him.
     
  15. Imported

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    aj2181: To me there is little to seperate Pat Robertson from Bin Laden and other religious fundamentalists. The only big difference is Robertson hasn't blown someone up .....yet.

    I think the wacko christians like him are just as bad as th wacko muslims. They contribute nothing constructive to any situation. Just their own religous prejudices'.

    Have any of you looked into the White House Faith Based Initiative? Robertson is a huge benefactor from that. Its very lop-sided and somewhat offensive. It gives our tax dollars to religious charities. Every group that has recieved money is Christian. Its disgraceful in my opinion.
     
  16. Imported

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    7x6andchg: Very good point AJ -

    if they are truly "faith based" and not just "Christian based" then why isn't money being funneled to other religions and their organizations?

    7x6&C
     
  17. Pecker

    Pecker Retired Moderator
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    "Other" religions are participating in Faith-Based programs with the help of President Bush's Initiative:

    http://netbook.miph.org/mss_fbr.html

    The above link lists just a few programs that were successfully up and running in 2002. They included not only Christian, but Jewish and Islamic faiths as well.

    As for Christian groups receiving the bulk of Faith-Based money - - perhaps it has something to do with the fact that over 76% of America's congregations are Christian?
     
  18. Imported

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    7x6andchg: And that's a valid point, the link does bear it out that some money is going to other religious groups...

    I do not, however, want to go in to the separation of church and state....I'm steering WAY clear of that muddy puddle.

    Paul
    7x6&C
     
  19. Imported

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    aj2181: [quote author=7x6+C link=board=99;num=1065906460;start=0#17 date=10/21/03 at 15:21:20]
    I do not, however, want to go in to the separation of church and state....I'm steering WAY clear of that muddy puddle.

    Paul
    7x6&C[/quote]

    Well Paul if you wont tread that mine field I might as well.

    There is supposed to be a 'clear' seperation of church and state. I wouldn't go as far as some and change the pledge or remove any reference to God on our money. However, I think that the political situation of any nation is not helped when zealousness pervades the atmosphere. In my opinion your faith is between you and your God. I dont want to hear about it, but I'm not going to blow you up, imprisson you, denegrate you, or exterminate you for your particular faith.
    The Congress, in its INFINITE WISDOM, refused to pass the "Faith Based Initiative". I was very pleased when I found out that it had been defeated. I was horrified when Mr. Bush had the balls to Exec.-Order it.

    Conservitive demagogues say the Liberal Left is 'attacking' religous faith. Perhapes this 'liberal' is. And why not! Hasn't most of this worlds most atrocious acts been commited in the name of God? How can it be that three faiths, united in place of origin, united in overall values, and united in the belief in one true loving and merciful God can be at each others throsts for centuries? It can only be the abhorrent people that populate this ball of rock and dirt. To eager to kill each other than enjoy the short time we have here.

    Okay I'm comming down from my soap box now.
     
  20. Pecker

    Pecker Retired Moderator
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    One of these days, hopefully, Americans will finally realize the intent of the Founding Fathers as to the separation of Church and State.

    My understanding is that, since American colonists by and large had come from countries that had State religions (i.e. One Church that everybody had to belong to or be jailed or worse for heresy), the Founding Fathers, in their search for a true Liberty, wanted to assure that our new Government would not be able to establish such a thing.

    In other words, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" doesn't say that religion is a poison the Government should avoid at all costs, only that the Government has no business establishing a religion that the citizens must join. We must be free to exercise (choose) our own.

    What this has to do with "under God" in a pledge, or "so help me God" in a swearing-in or even a 5th-grader carrying a Bible with her to school, I just can't figure, except that liberal America keeps losing its senses and doesn't appreciate the rest of America finding them.

    Pecker

    (Frisbeetarian: when you die, you soul goes to the roof.)
     
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