Pat Robertson

[jay_too]

Pecker 10/22/03 says:

What this has to do with "under God" in a pledge, or "so help me God" in a swearing-in or even a 5th-grader carrying a Bible with her to school, I just can't figure, except that liberal America keeps losing its senses and doesn't appreciate the rest of America finding them.

yet:

I'm terribly disappointed that some of us have slipped into negative stereotyping. . . .Let's be civil here. Pecker, October 13, 2003

I guess liberals don't count.

Seriously, there are certain issues that may cause each of us to overstate a position. We now know a hot button issue for Pecker and one about which he feels passionately.

For me, this is not an important issue -- just a devisive one. I am glad the Supremes are going to hear the case; and I hope this issue can be put behind us.

jay

 

[13788]

SpeedoGuy: I'm still riled about the fact that a wealthy and powerful man who runs his own media empire with thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands, of viewers would tacitly condone bombing a government building. Its a shameful thing for a so-called man of God to suggest...especially in these tense times.

Am I over-reacting? Perhaps, but consider this: SpeedoGuy has worked in the ranks of those hated government bureaucrats for nearly 20 years but not until the Oklahoma City bombing did he ever consider himself a target for acts of terrorism. SpeedoGuy visited the Murrah Building bombing site not long after the explosion and was horrified by the destruction. A building with a day care center blown to smithereens. And since then SpeedoGuy has had to evacuate his own office on three different occasions because of bomb threats...an experience that is not much fun for anyone. So I guess I don't have much of a sense of tolerance for the good Reverend Robertson's rhetoric.  I consider his statements seditious and criminally provocative

SG

 

[13788]

SpeedoGuy: see above

 

[13788]

SpeedoGuy: [quote author=SpeedoGuy link=board=99;num=1065906460;start=20#22 date=10/22/03 at 20:36:38] whoops. see above[/quote]

 

[jay_too]

SpeedoGuy..

The irony of proposing/wishing to nuke the State Department is that this would result in incinerating the White House, the Capitol, the Department of Justice, and a few hundred thousand visitors and residents of D.C.

John Ashcroft, where are you when the country needs you? Oh yeah, you are friends with Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. And the FBI? Oh yeah, persecuting a kid who demonstrated the ease of slipping box cutters on domestic air planes. Yeah, yeah, Pat is senile and can say anything...he has a good heart.

I think we need to have a broadcasting responsibilty act. Suggestions on the air such as nuking the U.S. or getting even with the feds (ala Oklahoma City) or maybe even a call for a prayer vigil for the timely death of the three oldest Supreme Court Justices could result in both civil and/or crimminal prosecution. There are crazies out there who might feel there is a need for action especially if sanctioned by a religious leader. I think the content of the air waves should be regulated.

Enforcement? Not just a slap on the wrist fine...but off the air for a year (all radio and tv...so no guest appearances). Do it again, and the broadcasting facility and associated property is confiscated...just like drug dealers suffer property loss.

The reason Pat Robertson was so angry at the State Department is that he thought State prevented the entry of troops into Liberia until Taylor resigned and left the country. Pat has sizeable investments in Liberia, and they needed the protection of the U.S. Marines.

Sad is the nicest descriptive word that comes to mind.

jay

 

[13788]

SpeedoGuy: I'd forgotten about Robertson's prayers for the demise of the Supreme Court judges. Typical. It seems we can add that to his list of faults.

Perhaps I shouldn't be so despondent. Pat Robertson's mouth might just prove to be the best recruiting tool the Dems have.

Still, what's so dismaying to me about this affair is that I'm waiting to see any public condemnation of Robertson's words from the White House. W's response has so far been a defeaning silence.

Contrast W's silence over Robertson's remarks with his father's response to the National Rifle Association characterization of federal law enforcement agents as "jackbooted thugs" in the mid 1990s. Senior Bush rebuked the NRA by publicly resigning his lifetime NRA membership over that remark. NRA leader Wayne LaPierre expressed puzzlement and dismay over Bush Senior's actions but GHW Bush had the stones to follow through and publicly distance himself from the NRA. I never thought I'd be a fan of GHW Bush, but good on him.

And in an even stranger twist on differences between Bush Sr and Bush Jr, get this: Bush senior will present Massachusetts Senator Ted Kennedy with his "Award for Excellence in Public Service" at the Bush Library in College Station, TX on November 7th. Since Kennedy has been an outspoken critic of W's policy in Iraq, I can only conclude that this is Bush Sr's way of tweaking W's nose over recent events. What do you think of that!

SG

 

[jonb]

Actually, Jefferson coined the term "wall of separation between church and state". Rationalism's also why the Declaration of Independence says "self-evident" rather than "sacred". It just happens that the courts never recognized it until about 50 years ago.

 

[13788]

hawl: [quote author=SpeedoGuy link=board=99;num=1065906460;start=20#25 date=10/23/03 at 20:02:51]

And in an even stranger twist on differences between Bush Sr and Bush Jr, get this: Bush senior will present Massachusetts Senator Ted Kennedy with his "Award for Excellence in Public Service" at the Bush Library in College Station, TX on November 7th. Since Kennedy has been an outspoken critic of W's policy in Iraq, I can only conclude that this is Bush Sr's way of tweaking W's nose over recent events.  What do you think of that!

SG[/quote]Here's an article on the award-www.nydailynews.com/front/story/129159p-115507c.html . I don't know what the current level of animosity is between father and son. I'm still just trying to keep up with the hot exploits of all the BBG (Bush Bad Girls). So naughty!-http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/americas/2249288.stm Someone someday will no doubt do an awesome bio of the whole insane Bush clan and its multi-generational history. "The power, the money, the madness..." :. There hasn't been such an interesting First Family since the Kennedy bunch.

 

[13788]

SpeedoGuy: [quote author=jay_too link=board=99;num=1065906460;start=20#24 date=10/23/03 at 14:01:35]

I think we need to have a broadcasting responsibilty act. Suggestions on the air such as nuking the U.S. or getting even with the feds (ala Oklahoma City) or maybe even a call for a prayer vigil for the timely death of the three oldest Supreme Court Justices could result in both civil and/or crimminal prosecution.

[/quote]

jay:

I think you can tell I share your disgust over Robertson's shenanigans over the years and similar suggestions from the vocal, radical right. It still astounds me that a man who once ran for president on the GOP ticket could suggest such a thing. However, I can't go along with a suggestion for legislation such as you propose. First, I don't think it would pass constitutional muster and, second, it would probably be abused by future administrations of either political stripe. That would be ugly.

Besides, I believe there are already established laws that outlaw clearly subversive speech or calls to incite rebellion and violence. Just exactly how and when these laws are applied, I don't know. Perhaps someone can enlighten us on this. I suspect such laws come more into vogue during war or other national emergency. Since the Bush administration has insisted we have been at war since 9/11, maybe they should apply now. I guess that would be for the courts to decide.

I consider myself a first amendment advocate even though freedom of speech isn't always pretty. I am very, very hesitant to call for gag laws to be enforced on anyone, including those with whom I strong disagree. So, rather than legislation, I would prefer to see sensible heads on either side of the political aisle put aside petty policy squabbles for the moment and together publicly condemn speech that is clearly stupid and irresponsible. I think Rev Robertson's recent escapade is such a case.

Pecker:

If you are still reading this thread, please continue. I went back and re-read my earlier posts on this topic. If you took my statements as a blanket condemnation of all people of deep faith as being weak minded or violent zealots, that was not my intention. I regret it if you interpreted them that way. I respect religion and those who practice it. I can't speak for the others who posted here but I suspect they did not intend a blanket condemnation either.

I will admit, however, that I do become irritated when broadcasters such as Robertson push a political agenda from behind the cloak of tax exempt religious organizations. I become even more irritated when anyone who has a large public following suggests violence as a means toward political ends. I'll not hesitate to call it what it is: foolish, irresponsible and damaging to the democratic process.

whew. I feel better now.

SG

 

[13788]

aj2181: Hummm well said speedo.

Did my earlier post come across as attacking religion and religous people because I'll admit that it was.

I do regret that....I was a little 'ticked off'

Okay now lets see.....,

It doesn't offend me that people have a religous faith. It doesn't bother me that "under God" is in the pledge. It doesn't bother me that "In God we trust" is on our money. I do believe in God. I don't believe in whack-jobs like Robertson.

I was gratified to see Ted Kenedy get that award. Teddy deserves it...He's been in that Senate since dinosaurs walked the earth. If you like him, or even if you dont, you haft to admit that He has devoted much of his life, and served with honor.

I was gunna go into yet another long speech on the evils of poitico-religous inter-mixing but I'll spare you.

A.J.

 

[13788]

da_blissmachine: Who is Pat Robertson?

 

[13788]

da_blissmachine: Politics and Religion deffinitely should not mix... right now in India there is a fundamentalist Hindu "BJP" party that is in power since 1995. They are increasingly oppressive especially of the Muslim and Christian communities and some authorities have labeled Jains and Buddhists as "heretics". This all despite that our constitution outlaws public "religious hate or bias" speach as punishable by exile.

I'm deffinitely not against religion, as a yogi (approximately equivilant to a "deacon") I am a very religious person. But these fanatics almost make me embarrassed to publicly say that I am a Hindu.

 

[13788]

aj2181: Pat Robertson is a conservitive Christian who has a tv show among other things...etc. etc.

He's VERY political and interjects with his politics often.

 

[13788]

SpeedoGuy: [quote author=aj2181 link=board=99;num=1065906460;start=20#29 date=10/25/03 at 13:02:52]Hummm well said speedo.
[/quote]

Thanks!

 

[13788]

aj2181: Ya know what burns me up. The conservitives bitch and moan about the 'liberal press' (sarcastic emphasis) but you have nuts like limbaugh, hannity, gallagher, o'rielly, reagan, etc. that can spout off all the fricken time with some of the most attrocious bull. I include such nuts as Robertson.

 

[Pecker]

[quote author=aj2181 link=board=99;num=1065906460;start=20#34 date=10/26/03 at 17:54:22]Ya know what burns me up. The conservitives bitch and moan about the 'liberal press' (sarcastic emphasis) but you have nuts like limbaugh, hannity, gallagher, o'rielly, reagan, etc. that can spout off all the fricken time with some of the most attrocious bull. I include such nuts as Robertson.[/quote]

Well, aj, somebody must like listening to those 'nuts.' Either that or their broadcasts are so popular because American listeners like laughing at them.

 

[jonb]

[quote author=da_blissmachine link=board=99;num=1065906460;start=20#30 date=10/25/03 at 15:34:20]Who is Pat Robertson?[/quote]
Fundamentalist minister. Known for claiming the world will end if he doesn't get so much money, blaming homosexuals for hurricanes, and praying for the passing of Supreme Court Justices.