Patriot Act Not Expired...

Discussion in 'Politics' started by helgaleena, May 26, 2011.

  1. helgaleena

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  2. B_24065

    B_24065 New Member

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    Just like I predicted 3 weeks ago on this site, Obama and congressional democrats decided to extend key patriot act's key provisions even though they campaigned vigorously against it in 2008. This just proves once again that liberal ideology only works when it is disconnected from reality. Im glad our president has seen the light and has decided to once again follow in GWB footsteps.

    Oh Yeah, Where is the Liberal outrage????????

    Patriot Act clears House, Senate - Scott Wong - POLITICO.com
     
  3. willow78

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    No, it just proves once again that Obama sucks Republican cock.
     
  4. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    To be more specific, only certain parts of the Patriot Act and not the entire bill would be extended. And considering that this needed to be passed by both the House (which is controlled by the Republicans) and the Senate (which is controlled by a slim margin by the Democrats), this is not something we should just be blaming the liberals on.

    Top lawmakers in the House and Senate reached a deal to extend the Patriot Act for four years, a week before key provisions were set to expire. The pieces of the law that allow the federal government to compel businesses to release records, issue roving wiretaps, and monitor so-called “lone wolf” terror suspects were set to run out on May 27. The outline of the deal between Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio), Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) still needs to pass both chambers in the next seven days to avoid a lapse in the law. - Leaders reach Patriot Act deal - Jake Sherman and John Bresnahan - POLITICO.com

    This is not a partisan issue. When they tried to pass Bush-era surveillance before, Republicans were unable to generate enough votes to speed up the process through the House because of objections from lawmakers ranging from libertarian-minded conservatives to liberal Democrats. This has been something the GOP have been pushing for quite some time now. In fact, several House Republicans were readying to push through their own, more ambitious, bill from Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner’s (R-Wis.) bill, which would have extended the business records and roving wiretap provisions for six years, and the “lone wolf” element permanently.

    On one of the actual links provided earlier the House & the Senate were listed - The House voted 250-153 to renew three parts of the counter-terrorism surveillance law. Thirty-one House Republicans joined most Democrats in opposing the extension, while 54 Democrats supported it. Hours earlier, the bill cleared the Senate on a 72-23 vote, with 19 Democrats and four Republicans voting no, mostly over concerns the Patriot Act violates personal privacy and civil liberties. And Obama being out of the country, the White House is going to use a machine that autopens Obama's signature. To be perfectly honest, I didn't even know the White House could actually do such a thing considering that a President does have veto power. Then again, that is an option Obama has not really considered since his presidency.

    So be outraged if you want. But be mad at the individuals who supported the bill and stop asking for "liberals" or "conservatives" to get pissed off as if any one of these groups were entirely to blame.
     
    #4 B_VinylBoy, May 27, 2011
    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  5. helgaleena

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    Exactly, VB. Both parties objected if they had the balls. Most did not.
     
  6. B_24065

    B_24065 New Member

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    Im outraged at the Hypocricy. I like the patriot act. Most conservatives do. But from the Left's point of view, the extension is 100% on the democratic senate and on the President because either one could have stopped it and they didnt. Most democrats and epecially Obama campaigned against the Patriot Act. VB and others on here have railed for years against it. The fact that it passed a democratically controlled senate and then was signed by a Democratic president shows what huge fucking hypocrites they are. In fact, the acticle below indicates that back in February, Obama wanted to extend some components of the law even LONGER than the house republicans did. Oh and by the way VB, The patriot act is permanent law. It is never going to expire. What was set to expire were certain key components that had expiration dates and had to be renewed such as roving wire taps, etc. So to characterize this four year extension as Obama only extending some but not all aspects of the law is wrong and misleading. The Patriot act as it stands today is exactly as it was 4 years ago.

    Obama Takes Wrong Turn on Civil Liberties, Adopting Worse Patriot Act Stance Than GOP | The Nation
     
    #6 B_24065, May 27, 2011
    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  7. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    I'm disheartened and seriously disappointed.
     
  8. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    You still don't get it, 24065.
    Nobody here (including myself) cared for the Patriot Act or its inevitable passing. However, as I clearly demonstrated there was opposition on both the Democrat and Republican side to not pass this current legislation. And if I need to make it more specific, more Democrats went against this than supported it. The voting tallies of the House & Senate collectively, in a link you provided earlier, demonstrates this. That cannot be argued... it is a fact.

    Whether or not you like Obama is a different thing altogether, but to sit here and act as if people like me were supposed to immediately start a thread denouncing this latest gaffe from our government and throw a temper tantrum about the several Democrats that supported it is disingenuous at best. It is not my responsibility (or anyone else who leans left or supports Obama) to make a thread criticizing them or expressing "concern" to your specifications to appease your ideological beliefs about liberals and conservatives.

    Again, THIS IS NOT A PARTISAN ISSUE. Stop treating it as such, because there lies the REAL hypocrisy.
     
    #8 B_VinylBoy, May 27, 2011
    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  9. B_24065

    B_24065 New Member

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    " The voting tallies of the House & Senate collectively"

    WHAT THE FUCK does that have to do with anything? This is what you do. Instead of admitting i am right, you go and invent your own lame ass retarded criteria that is pointless.

    Fact: The democrats had the chance to let wire-tapping expire and THEY DIDNT. Republicans (other than the Paul's) have supported this all along. It was the democrats that ran agaist it. They could have stopped it. They didnt. They are fucking hypocrites. Just like you.
     
  10. B_24065

    B_24065 New Member

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    Why would the GOP Object? They created and support this law! The Dems have the power, they could have killed it like they said they would. They didnt. They are lying fucking worthless hypocrites.
     
  11. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    It has EVERYTHING to do with it. Legislation doesn't become law in this country unless it passes the House & the Senate which means it receives a majority of votes before being signed into law by the President. Again, from your own link (which obviously you haven't read thoroughly enough) - The House voted 250-153 to renew three parts of the counter-terrorism surveillance law. Thirty-one House Republicans joined most Democrats in opposing the extension, while 54 Democrats supported it. Hours earlier, the bill cleared the Senate on a 72-23 vote, with 19 Democrats and four Republicans voting no, mostly over concerns the Patriot Act violates personal privacy and civil liberties.

    You foolishly blame Democrats for this, knowing (or purposely ignoring) the fact that without Republicans this law wouldn't have passed. Stop sitting here and blaming Liberals for this nonsense and recognize that the problem is with the individuals who were dumb enough to support extending some provisions of the Patriot Act. It passed with bipartisan support, and several politicians from both sides rejected it.

    Because you're not right. I'm not inventing anything.
    You're ignoring the actual voting process in Congress and the results of that voting to come here and talk about a political matter that requires knowing those precise details. If anything is lame ass, it's your reasoning for ignoring the numbers and talking out of your behind. Despite your political beliefs, MATH does not have a political bias. The proof is spelled out for you. Understand it and accept it, or continually ignore it and keep ranting like a damn idiot. I sense you'll choose the latter. :rolleyes:

    Wrong. Democrats no longer have complete control of the Congress. At the very worst, if everyone voted down parties lines (as you ignorantly assume should have happened), the bill wouldn't have passed but it would have cleared the House.

    And that's part of the damn problem.
    If they supported this all along and you don't like the Patriot Act, why only calling out Democrats when most of the people who were really pushing for this were indeed Republicans? That is, unless you somehow have forgiven the Republicans for their role in creating the law in the first place and presenting it... that would make YOU the hypocrite and not anyone leaning on the left.

    Wrong AGAIN. Do yourself a favor and look at the voting records of our elected officials in the House & Senate back when the Patriot Act was enacted. You'll see that it too received support from some Democrats as well. Or are you dumb enough to take a politician's word for everything and completely ignore what they actually do in Congress?

    And you're an idiot who can't even read the articles you source to come up with your pathetic, partisan bullshit. And bottom line, deep down I know you don't give a shit either way, so who's really playing the hypocrite, coming onto this board between occasional bouts of heavy drinking, sexual partnered abandonment and shortages of crystal meth, PRETENDING to be outraged about something when in reality you only want to take shots at a political opponent since this is the only joy you'll ever experience in your lifetime?

    Yeah, exactly.
    You know your damn place around here, you angry troll... off you go, back in the abyss where you came from. :rolleyes:

    Gee, why don't you ask the thirty-one Republicans in the House as well as the four in the Senate that voted against the measure? One of these days, you'll learn that only a blind, partisan fool who isn't a member of Congress and has nothing to financially gain plays "party politics". Having a (D) or an (R) next to your name these days doesn't mean jack anymore. Pay attention to the real problems!
     
    #11 B_VinylBoy, May 27, 2011
    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  12. B_24065

    B_24065 New Member

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    I see where we are missing each other here. I think you think that im BLAMING the democrats for the extension. I am not. I LIKE THE LAW. I'm glad it got extended. I think it has helped keep us safe the past 10 years. I just find it amazing that ever since Bush was in office, Democrat after democrat including Obama has come forward and spoken out against those key provisions. And at the very time they could have killed them, they decided, along with the republicans, to extend them for 4 more years. I agree with you. It passed with bi-partisan support. Thats not my issue. My issue is that Dems have been promising to crush the patriot act since 2004ish, and when they finally got their chance....they extended it for 4 more years! I am glad they did. What is Obama's excuse? he had all the power in the world to let the key provisions expire and he didnt. Not only did he sign it, but he pushed congressional democrats to extend it. I just think they are dispicable hypocrites who will say anything they can to the civil liberties crowd for votes. But once the issue comes to the floor, they all agree (even Obama) with the republicans that it would be foolish to let those provisions expire.
     
  13. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    You are.

    I'm actually not surprised about that. :rolleyes:

    It didn't. But go ahead.

    They, as in ALL DEMOCRATS, didn't go along with it. Only some of them did, and if you go by the numbers the majority of Democrats went against it. You continually ignore the details to make these sweeping generalizations about Democrats and Liberals, and when someone brings that info to the table you're quick to call them retarded and hypocritical. This is all you do around here, and I'm not the only one who is sick of it.

    But they didn't have a chance to "crush it". The only way you would have seen this as an option, given the current make of the Congress, would be for all Democrats and Republicans to vote entirely down party lines. And as we can all see, that doesn't always happen.

    He's not even in the country to sign the bill. They're using a machine to autosign it at the White House. On top of that, Obama doesn't "control" the House & Senate so he couldn't tell them what to do anyhow.

    No he doesn't. At his discretion, he would have had veto power. If he did that, the bill would go back to the House & Senate where it would need a 2/3rd vote to override the veto. Clearly you didn't forget all of this when coming up with your argument? Do I have to provide the link to the School House Rock video again?

    Well technically, Obama didn't sign it unless you want to assume that he's a machine. And I mean that literally, not figuratively. :rolleyes:

    Not to derail the thread, but if this is what you want to conclude to we could easily take a look at the current track record of many GOP politicians and their attack on Women's Civil Rights (such as abortion) and Gay Rights (with the constant attacks on same sex marriage) to show how they're a bunch of despicable hypocrites too... because wasn't the primary focus of the House Majority Leader (where most legislation starts) supposed to be job creation?

    Hypocrisy knows no political bias in government.

    Wrong, yet AGAIN. The majority of Democrats in the House and the Senate voted against extending the provisions. Only 54 of the current 193 Democrats in the House and 28 of the 47 in the Senate voted in support of it. That's roughly 1/3rd of the Democrats currently in Congress, yet you're formulating your arguments as if they ALL did the same thing. And regardless of where you stand with Obama, even if he did want a law to pass, if it doesn't get enough votes in the House or the Senate he's out of luck. Haven't we figured this out yet, or do you still think a "president" is the same as "dictator"?

    This is getting beyond tired. Are you through?
     
  14. B_24065

    B_24065 New Member

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    Im done. You are an irrational, intellectually dishonest little bitch. Eat shit.
     
  15. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Thank you for giving me something to report.
     
  16. helgaleena

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    This betrays that you didn't actually read the article. Which I am helpfully summarizing for you, but you refuse to believe. Get away from my thread please.
     
  17. SilverTrain

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    Why are you so angry? Here's a bit of reality from the linked article in the OP:

    "...The three renewed provisions enable law-enforcement officials to conduct continued surveillance on suspects who switch phones, monitor "lone-wolf" suspects who aren't connected to known terrorist groups and gain access to suspects' business transactions. All three provisions were extended until June 1, 2015.

    As the deadline approached, James R. Clapper, the director of national intelligence, warned Senate leaders there could be serious repercussions if the tools expired.

    "Today's extension of the Patriot Act means that our intelligence community, military and law enforcement professionals will continue to have the tools they need to safeguard us from future attacks," Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R., Ky.) said after the vote.

    The provisions are contained within the Patriot Act, a law passed in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks that expanded the abilities of law-enforcement officials to conduct surveillance of suspected terrorists both in the U.S. and abroad.

    Over the years, some provisions were allowed to expire and others were made permanent, while the three voted upon Thursday require periodic extensions by Congress..."


    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304520804576347892312315506.html
     
  18. nudeyorker

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    I am closing this thread for 1 hour while the moderators have a chance to discuss the issues at hand and give everyone here a chance to gather their thoughts in a more respectful manner.

    nudeyorker
    On behalf of the Moderating Team
     
  19. nudeyorker

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    This thread has been reported to the moderators; the name calling and insults have derailed this thread and will not be tolerated: Harassment of, or threats against, other LPSG members are against the site rules - This applies to the main forum, thread tags, PMs, chat room, IMs, visitor comments and galleries. Please read The Rules.

    Members found to be continuing in the same manner after the posting of this warning, will be subject to further actions and sanctions up to and including reviewing your continued participation at LPSG.
     
  20. MercyfulFate

    MercyfulFate New Member

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    Anyone who supports the Patriot Act is a terrorist.
     
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