Patriots?

[Smaccoms]

I am a Finnophile. Though I have never been there, and only learned of its culture as a third-generation descendant, I find many aspects of Finnish culture to be superior to the place where I was born. And I think the Finnish-Americans in that place made it much better to live there and grow up there.

But I do not think Finlanders should take over the world. They would not do a good job running Indonesia or Kenya, for example. So I guess I am not a Finnish patriot.

haha, I'm a fourth-generation Finnophile. All I really know about Finland though is that Finnish is extremely complicated, and their diet was very bland and boring, very short growing season, yup, that's it

 

[FuzzyKen]

Actually this is an interesting thread. The concept of patriotism is a good thing. To me it signifies, a desire to defend one's country, a representation of loyalty, and a happiness or joy in the individuals who founded a nation and tried their best to make it great.

A patriot is not one who lies or distorts truth, approves of aggression towards other peoples, and a total attitude of superiority over other belief systems.

The concept of debate is to initiate thought. If any individual debating another cannot recognize the points that the other individual is trying to make via thoughtful discussion, then you sew the seeds for future disaster.

Patriotism can be said to be defined as a people defending their country against all enemies foreign OR domestic, however, it does not mean the elimination of common sense, nor does it mean we do not take the time to investigate and be certain who the enemy really is.

There are many definitions of the words used here to describe both good and bad. The question is the common sense to apply the right definitions and thoughts to assure that any Country or Nation makes it's decisions based on the welfare of the citizens who inhabit it.

Patriotism is not defending the profiteering of numerous major corporations and assuring the freedom of these corporations to make the people of a land in to it's servants in some manner.

 

[Bbucko]

So patriotism is to nationalism as condescending is to contempt?

That's a mighty strange way of understanding what I wrote:

Patriotism is pride in the culture of one's birth and where one was raised.

...

Nationalism is the concept, not just of pride, but of innate superiority of the culture of one's birth to the exclusion of all others...Genocide is the extreme (and all-too sad) result of nationalism run amok.

 

[helgaleena]

haha, I'm a fourth-generation Finnophile. All I really know about Finland though is that Finnish is extremely complicated, and their diet was very bland and boring, very short growing season, yup, that's it

Yet you still like Finns! QED...

I am reminded of being a penis-ophile by this similarity.

 

[maxcok]

I hate patriots. I think most of the time, extreme patriots are people simply arrogant snobs looking to throw their weight around.

I think you are confusing patriots with pseudo patriots.

To me a true American patriot is someone who loves this country and in particular understands and holds high the ideals and principles it was founded upon and is supposed to stand for. Not only that, but someone who puts effort into helping ensure we live up to those ideals and principles.

A pseudo patriot is someone who may or may not have a clear understanding of those same ideals and principles and whose major expression of their patriotism involves symbolic and public displays of devotion.

To the untrained eye and the indiscriminating ear they are sometimes hard to distinguish, and either may be seen waving a flag from time to time. But the proof is in not in words, or in flag waving, it is in action.


A prime example of pseudo patriotism may be the Orwellian named "Patriot Act" and the people who sponsored it.

 

[HazelGod]

A prime example of pseudo patriotism may be the Orwellian named "Patriot Act" and the people who sponsored it.

Agreed.

It's also a prime example of true irony. :biggrin1:

 

[mitchymo]

A little bit of patriotism is a good thing, giving too much makes manipulation easier.

 

[B_RedDude]

Not long after 9/11, The Bay Guardian, a local weekly rag in San Francisco, had a column with the assertion, "Patriotism makes you stupid".

What I took this to mean, or what my thinking would be behind it if I were to say it, is that patriotism can cause one to lose objectivity about situations and thus make judgments about these situations that are not ethical. I think that the need to act morally and fairly in international relations should transcend any kind of patriotism.

 

[B_crackoff]

Nationalism is the concept, not just of pride, but of innate superiority of the culture of one's birth to the exclusion of all others: it goes beyond condescension into contempt. This lack of respect allows people to justify all manner of evil, because the person held in such contempt is dehumanized because of his/her culture. Genocide is the extreme (and all-too sad) result of nationalism run amok.

That's Imperialism really. That's pretty much US policy. Nationalism itself has no expansionary aims- whatsoever, & is always about asserting self determination . In the Americas, I believe only Canada hasn't had a successful nationalist movement leading to self-government.

Jingoism is of course fostered by the lack of a fair or free press, & a whipping up of sentiment, by withholding contrary facts, so psychologically citizens feel threatened, or outraged, &, as is the human way, bind themselves into the largest possible group, in this case the nation, inheriting the values & stances of its leaders (though only for a short while).

I don't recall expulsions of Russians from any former Soviets either!

Yet you still like Finns! QED...

I am reminded of being a penis-ophile by this similarity.

Ho ho ho:wink:. Most witty HG!

 

[maxcok]

Agreed.

It's also a prime example of true irony. :biggrin1:

You know, I was going to say that, but I didn't want to rouse the semantic police from their bunker. :cop:

 

[TomCat84]

You know, I was going to say that, but I didn't want to rouse the semantic police from their bunker. :cop:

Don't worry, I wasn't roused. :tongue:

 

[Drifterwood]

The term was one of derision prior to the Mel Gibson film, sorry, the US War of Independence, a cheap plea to baser passions by politicians. Its use by colonists is also somewhat ironic, as the term properly refers to longstanding paternal ancestry, which of course colonists do not have in the colonised lands. It is perhaps a cement that people have been using in modern nation building.

Pledges of fidelity to the concepts and ideals that Max lists are fine (if you think that they are real), but I think another word might have been better.

Are there any matriots out there?

 

[maxcok]

I don't know where it was a term of derision before the film you refer to. Not in the US I don't think.

I think the word has a meaning of its own now, and we're kind of past any gender association in the origin.
I doubt most people are educated enough to make that connection in the first place. It's kind of moot.

After all, America the country is referred to in the feminine, which people are conscious of, as is Britain I believe, as are many other countries.

I think it's kind of nitpicky to focus on the etymology here. At least we don't call it der Fatherland. :smile:

 

[D_Andreas Sukov]

I dont get patriotism at all. It implies the country is yours when in reality it isn't. Your merely renting it.

Patriotism is used to lead the masses into someone else's aim.

 

[dreamer20]

not to mention the shear stupidity of the average person in our country.

That should be sheer Smaccoms.:smile: