Paul Krugman: Thanks to Government, we've averted the Great Depression II

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Aug 10, 2009.

  1. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Paul Krugman is professor of economics at Princeton University.

    Paul Krugman is Centenary Professor at the London School of Economics.

    Paul Krugman is best-known as an op-ed columnist for The New York Times.

    Paul Krugman won the Nobel Prize for Economic Sciences for 2008.


    The Washington Monthly called him "the most important political columnist in America." The Economist said he is "the most celebrated economist of his generation."

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    From yesterday's New York Times, August 9, 2009:


    Averting the Worst

    So it seems that we aren’t going to have a second Great Depression after all. What saved us? The answer, basically, is Big Government.

    Just to be clear: the economic situation remains terrible, indeed worse than almost anyone thought possible not long ago. The nation has lost 6.7 million jobs since the recession began. Once you take into account the need to find employment for a growing working-age population, we’re probably around nine million jobs short of where we should be.

    And the job market still hasn’t turned around — that slight dip in the measured unemployment rate last month was probably a statistical fluke. We haven’t yet reached the point at which things are actually improving; for now, all we have to celebrate are indications that things are getting worse more slowly.

    For all that, however, the latest flurry of economic reports suggests that the economy has backed up several paces from the edge of the abyss.

    A few months ago the possibility of falling into the abyss seemed all too real. The financial panic of late 2008 was as severe, in some ways, as the banking panic of the early 1930s, and for a while key economic indicators — world trade, world industrial production, even stock prices — were falling as fast as or faster than they did in 1929-30.

    But in the 1930s the trend lines just kept heading down. This time, the plunge appears to be ending after just one terrible year.

    So what saved us from a full replay of the Great Depression? The answer, almost surely, lies in the very different role played by government.

    Probably the most important aspect of the government’s role in this crisis isn’t what it has done, but what it hasn’t done: unlike the private sector, the federal government hasn't slashed spending as its income has fallen. (State and local governments are a different story.) Tax receipts are way down, but Social Security checks are still going out; Medicare is still covering hospital bills; federal employees, from judges to park rangers to soldiers, are still being paid.


    ..... The point is that this time, unlike in the 1930s, the government didn't take a hands-off attitude while much of the banking system collapsed. And that’s another reason we’re not living through Great Depression II.

    Last and probably least, but by no means trivial, have been the deliberate efforts of the government to pump up the economy. From the beginning, I argued that the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, a k a the Obama stimulus plan, was too small. Nonetheless, reasonable estimates suggest that around a million more Americans are working now than would have been employed without that plan — a number that will grow over time — and that the stimulus has played a significant role in pulling the economy out of its free fall.

    All in all, then, the government has played a crucial stabilizing role in this economic crisis. Ronald Reagan was wrong: sometimes the private sector is the problem, and government is the solution.

    And aren’t you glad that right now the government is being run by people who don’t hate government?


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    Please read the full article here:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/10/opinion/10krugman.html?_r=1




    Damn. That is such a LIBERATING and Democratic message. One more time:

    Reagan was wrong: sometimes the private sector is the problem, and government is the solution.
     
  2. B_New End

    B_New End New Member

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    mission accomplished!
     
  3. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    oh my! a lib ideologue spins a lib position

    I'm persuaded
     
  4. sargon20

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    Of course he's absolutely right. All the crazies said let bad businesses and industries fail. Damn the torpedoes. Full speed ahead. All the while years ago these same people unhooked the regulatory speed brakes that were designed to stop the runaway train. And, of course, when it ran away they said 'let it crash'. Right Right.
     
  5. B_New End

    B_New End New Member

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    You fools bought the big lie. You dance, dance dance to your economic graves, as the people at AIG and Goldman Sachs walk away with the money you will pay them for the rest of your lives, in inflation and taxes. You don't care that Trillions is unaccounted for, and suddenly these banks on the verge of collapsing suddenly could pay every single of their 29,000 employees $700,000. No, as long as they "paid back" the TARP, with interest, it's all good.

    Dance on fools. This is the long predicted sucker's rally. It will last as long as the money printed up, and laundered by the Fed retains its value. And the people spending it haven't slowed down one bit. Thet still are getting the 400,000 spa holidays.

    Sooner than you think, you will wonder how it all crashed so hard, and you will want to blame somebody. You'll pick the team you are not on, Red or Blue, as the culprit, when indeed, ti was playing the game that caused it in the first place. It is now only a matter of time.

    And I know you want to tell me I am wrong, and the experts are right, but I am still looking at the numbers, not the hype.

    Krugman pointing to 1 million new government jobs is laughable. That does not make our dollar more valuable... and that is what we are going to so desperately want.
     
    #5 B_New End, Aug 10, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
  6. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    No you're not. You're just attacking "libs". That doesn't solve or accomplish anything.
     
  7. B_New End

    B_New End New Member

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    Maguire Properties Warns of Loan Defaults - WSJ.com

    here comes the next phase predicted by the people who were right, not the ones who are trying to fix their mess: the commercial real estate collapse.

    Yeah... I'd suggest you fools put your party blowers back in the box they came from. This is so far from over, it hasn't even started.
     
  8. D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III

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    I'm with you 100% we haven't seen anything yet.
     
  9. B_New End

    B_New End New Member

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    Paul Krugman won the Nobel Prize for Economic Sciences for 2008.

    There is no Nobel prize for economics. They used Alfred Nobel's name to give themselves some kind of scientific credence. The real name is "the Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel". Just one more little lie the so "scientists" of money have been selling the American people for decades.

    there are five nobel prizes: physics, chemistry, literature, medicine/physiology, and peace.
     
    #9 B_New End, Aug 10, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
  10. tripod

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    New End, you are alarming and confusing at the same time. You sound like both an anarchist and a nihilist.

    Are you implying that you are a better economist than Krugman? Or are you implying that Krugman is a charlatan by association because economics is by and large a fraudulent science?

    Do you think that Krugman is a shill for the Obama administration?

    There is no doubt that you are highly intelligent... maybe you need to dumb it down for us liberals. What the hell are you getting at?
     
  11. B_New End

    B_New End New Member

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    Obama is a shill for the banking elite, as is Krugman. And economics is by and large a fraudulent science. I am a nihilist now.... because i have no choice.

    WE

    ARE

    FUCKED

    thank the bailouts and the wars for that.

    There is nothing that can stop it now, and all the dancing singing and declaring that everything is OK is not going to change the many, many, many fucking stupid things Americans have done over the past 20 years, including spending all their home equity, borrowing to breaking point, getting obese, and a a fuck ton of other things that will all prove ruinous soon. The United States is dead, and I say this with 100% certainty. We are fucked. I, with a handful of others, tried for a decade to warn of the hyperconsumerist madness that this country was suffering from, but nobody believed us, nobody wanted to listen. Life is too much fun to worry about things like money.

    There has been one word experts have used to describe the American way of life, be it economics, environment, the health care system, the social security system, our empire, or just about every other institution.... one word: unsustainable And they weren't fucking joking. But when shit like gay marriage and abortion is the hot button issue... who cares about our economic policies, questions of empire or the environment?

    We tried. I watched as every one of our predictions came true. Even now, Obama just keeps porking away, all his real initiatives for government stimulus have been put in the corner, and instead we are getting a bunch of re-regulation, paper shuffling, and destruction fo perfectly good cars, to turn them to scrap to sell to China. It shows a complete disconnect from the reality of economics. Economics based on nothing but numbers and goodwill will fail... especialy if your country squanders its goodwill.

    Am I a better economist than Krugman? Of course... I'm not a fucking idiot that thinks you can just spend and destroy your way out of troubles (BTW, look at FDR's history, WW II saved America, not turning fields fallow like the AAA did, but also, look at how the average American viewed money back then, and then compare that to now) It's not that I have more study or tenure, it's that I have been on welfare, I know what money really means, I have suffered, and most importantly, I have given it real, philosophical thought, and I have come to the same conclusion as so many others.... money needs something to back it up.
     
    #11 B_New End, Aug 10, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
  12. Zeuhl34

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    That really doesn't decrease the prestige for such an award.:rolleyes:
     
  13. B_New End

    B_New End New Member

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    If you don't want it to. Just be aware of the truth. Economics are not a science, and indeed, many of the economics nobel winners have ended up having their models completely debunked over time. Economics are chaotic, and the basis of science is being able to reproduce and predict outcomes, you can do neither in economics.

    Anyways, I'm done wasting my time here. Its not that I don't care... its just that I realize the futility now. We are fucked. Enjoy your fucked country. I am getting ready.

    So, uh, yeah, ignore me, I'm just crazy. Everything is going ot be OK. The bailouts worked. Have a nice day....

    you dumb fuckers.
     
  14. AllHazzardi

    AllHazzardi Member

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    And when you go after any individual as "Just attacking libs" or "being a repugnican" or "right-wing nutjob", precisely what problem are you intending to solve, or what deed are you intending to accomplish?
     
  15. BiItalianBro

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    WAAAAAAYYYY to early to declare victory...and what kind of 'success' is saying "things are going to hell, just a little slower (sic)". I am sorry but I am with New End on this one...there are many other shoes to drop on this House of Cards...and pulling money out of the air will not save us from the crush.
     
  16. sargon20

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    The WSJ is a joke. A complete joke. The funnies.
     
  17. lucky8

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    Paul Krugman is also a selfish, bastard Keynsian who believes we should sacrifice future generations to temporarily solve the problem now. What's that Keynes quote again? Oh ya..."we're all dead in the long-run"...fuckin hippie needs to learn a thing or 2 about long term economics

    Credit goes to the Federal Reserve for preventing a depression, not our government. The fact that he doesn't know that destroys any and all credibility

    interest rate hikes are coming...lock them in now if you're smart...
     
  18. sargon20

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    The Federal Reserve has succeeded from the US government? Breaking news I guess.
     
  19. lucky8

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    Wow. The Federal Reserve has never been a part of our government. It's about as federal as FedEx :rolleyes:
     
  20. lucky8

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    Why didn't they call it the 3rd National Bank? Because they wanted to fool the public into thinking it's part of government because this used to be a very very prominent issue in early and mid America, that issue being having a privately owned, independent bank in control of our money supply and interest rates...believe it or not, we do live in a very deceitful, fucked up world...
     
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