Pederasty - natural or unnatural

[Drifterwood]

I appreciate that this could be one of the most taboo subjects around and for those who aren't quite sure of the breadth of it's forms then Pederasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is a pretty good introduction to the social and cultural history. Worth reading if you are just intending to bible bash everyone.

I wondered what people's thoughts are on the subject and as to whether which elements are Ok and where the lines of acceptability are today in our cultures.

For the record, I was the emotional object of a pederast when sixteen, in fact maybe another a few years later. I found the experience confusing because I was already well into discovering my heterosexual and emotional nature, but not harmful and I certainly bear no grudge to the man nor the nature of his emotional ideals.

 

[Not_Punny]

Interesting.

As the mom of an incredibly gorgeous (and vulnerable) 13 y/o boy, whose sexuality is as yet unknown, I have completely mixed reactions to the whole idea.

I think there are a LOT of factors dancing around the issue...

-- Taking ancient Greece as an example.... a 13/14 y/o in those days was actually a lot "older" than a 13/14 y/o in our current culture -- possibly because youth today has to pass through a lot more milestones before being allowed to play an active part in our culture.

-- Sexual intercourse with women can have an almost guaranteed side effect of pregnancy and sometimes death. This is THE reason why women have been protected throughout history -- and are still protected in cultures that frown on birth control.

-- In some cultures, not everyone was allowed to have families -- slaves, "workers" in religious contexts, soldiers (Spartans and Greeks maintained large armies, large proportionate to their general population, and it has always been undesirable to have too many widows and orphans running around), etc. So of course pederasty was encouraged -- men know all too well that sex is a necessity for them.

- - - - - -

With birth control, and with humans living longer (and thus not HAVING to grow up in a hurry), the socio-sexual geography is completely different. Therefore, pederasty no longer has the compelling arguments that it had "back in the day".

I think it's best to leave kids alone until they develop their own sexual identity.

However, it's anyone's guess as to exactly what age that happens.

 

[DC_DEEP]

In the strictest, classical Greek sense, it was more of a mentorship or social apprenticeship than anything. Generally, sexual context in that type of relationship was strictly forbidden. In that sense, it seems like a good idea. To have an adult male, outside the family, who takes a pre-adolescent "under his wing" and teaches him philosophy, social structure, and interpersonal skills, and introduces him to other members of the community, would be a good thing.

In the broader (and altered) sense, if it involves sexual contact, it's not a good plan. Unfortunately, these days, most people cannot see the difference, most people see only the bad aspects, and predators take advantage of such arrangements.

 

[Not_Punny]

True -- even in "recent" history there were apprentices. And every knight had at least one squire.

Added:

But... with schools and universities, we have a different structure today to pass on knowledge and (rarely!) wisdom.

 

[DC_DEEP]

True -- even in "recent" history there were apprentices. And every knight had at least one squire.

Added:

But... with schools and universities, we have a different structure today to pass on knowledge and (rarely!) wisdom.

But very few who develop such a trusting relationship, and can impart social skills, as well. You know, that may be something sadly missing in modern society. It really would not be such a bad idea for today's youth to have mentors.

 

[Freddie53]

Church youth groups and boys scouts, sports etc. take the place of the classical form. As a youth director, many teenage boys would visit with me about issues that they felt awkward talking ot their dads. I had parents thanking me for being there for their son at youth meetings. While youth sessons didn't last long and only met once a week. After the formal lessons and activities were over, sometimes some of the boys would visit with me and the girls would visit with the lady counselor. Depending on the size of the group, we had two or three men and two or three ladies helping with the youth group. At times there would be only one male and one female adult when the group was small.

And those informal discussions didn't happen every week. Lot of times the boys just wanted to share the latest joke that they felt awkward sharing with dad and mom. Sometimes they would ask sex questions. I take sex ed at school, so not only did I know the subject the youth all knew that I taught it and I did teach most of the boys at school since it is a very small school in our community.

Nothing sexual every happened or came close to happening. Sometimes the issue of dick size would come up. And it might be years before it came up again. I am blessed to have a talent that I can relate to middle school and high school kids as well as elementary. Several adults have noticed that I have a way with youth and in the public school students with problems were put in my room so I could mentor them and keep them out of trouble. Many parents with kids with special needs requested me to be a teacher. Most of my career was with sixth grade. They are a delightful age capable of being totally kindergarten acting to being more emotionally mature than the seniors on given days And somewhere in the middle the rest of the time. I flowed with them. Heads up Seven Up a Kindergarten game if they requested it we played it. Other days they were way too old for that. I learned never to suggest it myself. Oh no they were to old.

The point is that some adults do have the ability and talent to mold young people. And this shouldn't require sex and part of the deal. Teen boys really want to have adult mentors other than their fathers to talk about sex issues, girl friends, being a man etc.

That is why most youth that don't get in trouble have a group with an adult mentor other than a parent that they heavily idenitfy with. There are exceptions to every rule, but in general, the teens that get into trouble in their early teens are usually teens that don't have a group to identify with and has an adult mentor.

Teens on their own don't know how to set boundaries. Adult mentors can teach the youth where the boundaries are. Boundaries that may be larger than mom and dad set as far as conversations and fun things. I remember a state wide youth event. I had a youth or two with me and anther church group happened to get there as we did. We parked on the wrong parking lot and had a long route if we went the marked way. One of the kids of their group suggested climbing that forbidden fence and take the short cut. At my age, I told them if they could help me get over the fence. Really they said. I laughed and said that it was easier to get forgiveness than permission. I didn't think much about it until three months later at the next youth event. Those kids, mostly girls, swarmed around me hugging me and saying they were glad to see me again. As it were, I had forgotten the incident. They were talking all about it. For that one event I an adult mentor who didn't even know their names, was a hero mentor.

It is like grandparents. every child needs one and if there isn't one close by an older adult needs to take that role. Kids and youth need a lot more than just mom and dad to raise them. Youth love to do social activities where mom and dad aren't there. It gives them a time and place to explore themselves with an mentor around to draw some boundaries if they are needed. Mentors can draw boundaries without incuring the wrath of young people then they can with their own parents. Remember youth are trying to break away and independent of mom and dad.

Yes adult mentors are needed and badly needed. There is absolutely no excuse for it to be sexual in nature. The closest thing to sexual nature is asking adults mentors things that they feel awkward asking mom and dad.

 

[B_All4show]

But very few who develop such a trusting relationship, and can impart social skills, as well. You know, that may be something sadly missing in modern society. It really would not be such a bad idea for today's youth to have mentors.

Yah, sadly, we can not leave our sons to be "mentored" by you DC.

 

[DC_DEEP]

Yah, sadly, we can not leave our sons to be "mentored" by you DC.

Fuck off, you god damned idiot. What's your implication here? Are you calling me a pedophile?

You are a disgusting piece of shit.

 

[Not_Punny]

Absolutely -- males (and females) NEED an adult they can relate to. I worry for my 13 y/o because he doesn't have one. I need to find something for him.

= = = = = = =

(All4show -- how could you assume that about DC_deep? It's completely WRONG that a gay is a pedophile. They are two completely different sexual inclinations. Don't forget that straight men are usually the ones who molest little girls, so are all hetero men not to be trusted around children?)

 

[rexcasual]

Yah, sadly, we can not leave our sons to be "mentored" by you DC.

It seems you have a huge problem understanding and co-existing with homosexuals, and in particular you attack DC_Deep, a member I deeply respect.


Why don't you leave and take your fucking rampant homophobia with you.

Better yet, somebody in admin ban this clown.

 

[snoozan]

Fuck off, you god damned idiot. What's your implication here? Are you calling me a pedophile?

You are a disgusting piece of shit.

DC, I would be tickled fucking pink if my child had the opportunity to have you as a mentor.

A double fuck you to All4Show.

 

[Principessa]

I appreciate that this could be one of the most taboo subjects around and for those who aren't quite sure of the breadth of it's forms then

Pederasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is a pretty good introduction to the social and cultural history. Worth reading if you are just intending to bible bash everyone. That was interesting, however I am still a tad bit confused on the difference between a pedophile and a pederast. I wondered what people's thoughts are on the subject and as to whether which elements are Ok and where the lines of acceptability are today in our cultures. I think that many people mistakenly use pederast and pedophile interchangeably as I have evidently done. :redface: For the record, I was the emotional object of a pederast when sixteen, in fact maybe another a few years later. I found the experience confusing because I was already well into discovering my heterosexual and emotional nature, but not harmful and I certainly bear no grudge to the man nor the nature of his emotional ideals.

I'm sorry to hear that Drifterwood. It seems you still suffer from his attentions years later; and are just now dealing with the full ramifications of that relationship. I hope that you are soon able to make peace with your past.

But very few who develop such a trusting relationship, can impart social skills, as well. You know, that may be something sadly missing in modern society. It really would not be such a bad idea for today's youth to have mentors.

Many urban areas have introduced both male and female mentors as tutors that work with the school system. Other than that I am unaware of a mentor type experience that is completely non-sexual and aimed at young adults or pre-teens.

In the strictest, classical Greek sense, it was more of a mentorship or social apprenticeship than anything. Generally, sexual context in that type of relationship was strictly forbidden. In that sense, it seems like a good idea. To have an adult male, outside the family, who takes a pre-adolescent "under his wing" and teaches him philosophy, social structure, and interpersonal skills, and introduces him to other members of the community, would be a good thing. I don't mean to sound facetious; but wasn't that before the advent of public schools?

In the broader (and altered) sense, if it involves sexual contact, it's not a good plan. Not a good plan is certainly putting it mildly! Unfortunately, these days, most people cannot see the difference, most people see only the bad aspects, and predators take advantage of such arrangements.

Fuck off, you god damned idiot. What's your implication here? Are you calling me a pedophile? I didn't think so. Though I may have misinterpreted him. I thought he meant that you seem to be a decent chap and that you were one of few people he would trust.

 

[B_All4show]

Absolutely -- males (and females) NEED an adult they can relate to. I worry for my 13 y/o because he doesn't have one. I need to find something for him.

Hotmilf,

I did not say anything about DC being a pedophile. I have a problem with the way he thinks and it is not limited to sex. Naturally I would not want my son to be mentored by him.

So you are telling me that you would allow your 13 y/o son to be mentored by a gay man? Do you not care if your son is gay? Do you want him to be gay? One of the goals of mentoring is in the end, the pupil will be more like the mentor. I am not saying there would be any sex involved, but certainly it will enlighten him to the options he possibly would have never considered.

I have wondered if gay men with kids want their boys to be gay when they grow up.

 

[Principessa]

Pederasty - acceptable or unacceptable?

I appreciate that this could be one of the most taboo subjects around and for those who aren't quite sure of the breadth of it's forms then

Pederasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is a pretty good introduction to the social and cultural history. Worth reading if you are just intending to bible bash everyone. I wondered what people's thoughts are on the subject and as to whether which elements are Ok and where the lines of acceptability are today in our cultures. *SNIP*

My short knee jerk answer is no, it is not acceptable. Yes, it is very taboo! If you are referring to a purely, platonic, mentor type relationship, then yes I am okay with that, otherwise no.

I can't speak for the UK or other countries but I think most people in the United States assume as I did. That pederast and pedophile are synonyms and that it implied a sexual relationship between an adult male and an under age child usually a boy.


When I googled pederasty for more information I came up with this information:

WordNet​

According to word net, The noun pederasty has one meaning: Meaning #1: sexual relations between a man and a boy (usually anal intercourse with the boy as a passive partner)​

Synonym: paederasty​

Law encyclopedia​

Pederasty - The criminal offense of unnatural copulation between men.​

The term pederasty is usually defined as anal intercourse of a man with a boy. Pederasty is a form of sodomy. ​

Webster’s Dictionary​

Ped·er·as·ty​

n. [Gr. paiderasti`a: cf. F. pédérastie.]​

The crime against nature; sodomy. ​

Pederasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

​

The Wikipedia definition which you link to in your OP is the last one on the page. I bet many people either wouldn't scroll down that far or read the entire citation.

 

[HazelGod]

But very few who develop such a trusting relationship, and can impart social skills, as well. You know, that may be something sadly missing in modern society. It really would not be such a bad idea for today's youth to have mentors.

Amen. Hell, I wouldn't mind having you as a mentor now, DC.

Hotmilf,

I did not say anything about DC being a pedophile. I have a problem with the way he thinks and it is not limited to sex. Naturally I would not want my son to be mentored by him.

So you are telling me that you would allow your 13 y/o son to be mentored by a gay man? Do you not care if your son is gay? Do you want him to be gay? One of the goals of mentoring is in the end, the pupil will be more like the mentor. I am not saying there would be any sex involved, but certainly it will enlighten him to the options he possibly would have never considered.

I have wondered if gay men with kids want their boys to be gay when they grow up.

Wow...such ignorance is astonishing. Proximity to homosexuals does not cause one to "turn" gay, genius. It's not a communicable disease. And do you honestly believe that if your son were actually gay, your failure as a parent to expose him to the existence of homosexuality would somehow prevent him from realizing he's gay for his entire life? If anything, your intolerant attitude would cause him enormous (and unnecessary) self-loathing when he inevitably realizes the truth about himself.

 

[B_All4show]

This would appear to violate the Terms of Service

Fuck off, you god damned idiot.

You are a disgusting piece of shit.

A double fuck you to All4Show.

 

[Principessa]

duplicate post, please delete

 

[Principessa]

Hotmilf,

I did not say anything about DC being a pedophile. I have a problem with the way he thinks and it is not limited to sex. Naturally I would not want my son to be mentored by him. That's a shame, he is a great human being unlike yourself.

So you are telling me that you would allow your 13 y/o son to be mentored by a gay man? If I considered him to be of good character, yes I would have no problem with that. Do you not care if your son is gay? No, I would care if my child were happy. Do you want him to be gay? I don't care one way or the other.I want a healthy, happy child. Though I admit I would prefer a child with no physical or mental deficiencies. IMO homosexuality does not qualify as a physical or mental deficiency or flaw. One of the goals of mentoring is in the end, the pupil will be more like the mentor. I am not saying there would be any sex involved, but certainly it will enlighten him to the options he possibly would have never considered. You stupid, ignorant ass you completely missed the point! The mentee is supposed to learn a skill or trade! More importantly, homosexuality is not something you catch by being in close proximity like chicken pox!

I have wondered if gay men with kids want their boys to be gay when they grow up.

The ones I know don't even think about that. I do have a gay friend who hopes his high school age son (he excels in the sciences and english) becomes a surgeon like he is. It's sort of the family business. :biggrin1:

HazelGodRe: Pederasty - natural or unnatural
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC_DEEP [URL]http://www.lpsg.org/images36/buttons/viewpost.gif[/URL]
But very few who develop such a trusting relationship, and can impart social skills, as well. You know, that may be something sadly missing in modern society. It really would not be such a bad idea for today's youth to have mentors.

Amen. Hell, I wouldn't mind having you as a mentor now, DC.
I agree with HazelGod! I'm at a crossroads and would love such an intelligent, talented, funny, and trustworthy mentor.

 

[B_All4show]

The ones I know don't even think about that. I do have a gay friend who hopes his high school age son (he excels in the sciences and english) becomes a surgeon like he is. It's sort of the family business. :biggrin1:

So you do not want your son to grow up and be a father and have a family? I doubt your honesty. If your son does become gay, you will look back on his past life and upbring and search to see if it was due to some thing you did or your fault in the way you raised him. Again I doubt your honesty.

 

[AlteredEgo]

Hotmilf,

I did not say anything about DC being a pedophile. I have a problem with the way he thinks and it is not limited to sex. Naturally I would not want my son to be mentored by him.

So you are telling me that you would allow your 13 y/o son to be mentored by a gay man? Do you not care if your son is gay? Do you want him to be gay? One of the goals of mentoring is in the end, the pupil will be more like the mentor. I am not saying there would be any sex involved, but certainly it will enlighten him to the options he possibly would have never considered.

I have wondered if gay men with kids want their boys to be gay when they grow up.

I think people with children just want their children to be self-actualized when they grow up. That is what I want for my children. I would be lying if I didn't say that a part of myself would be disapointed if my children were gay. But that is a selfish part that wants natural grandchildren. For the most part, I will be thrilled if I can raise individuals who love themselves, accept themselves, are responsible, thoughtful, proactive, successful, moral and disciplined. To that end, I think DC would make a wonderful mentor, and I certainly hope he'll be an uncle to my children some day.

Also, for the record, you can't catch gayness. You can't teach gayness. Or maybe you can. DC, where'd you catch gayness? Is it an STD? Ridiculous.