Pederasty - natural or unnatural

snoozan

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So you do not want your son to grow up and be a father and have a family? I doubt your honesty. If your son does become gay, you will look back on his past life and upbring and search to see if it was due to some thing you did or your fault in the way you raised him. Again I doubt your honesty.

I have a son, so this is not a hypothetical question for me.

Yes, I would like my son to be a father and to have a family, but biologically fathering a child with a woman while in a heterosexual relationship is not the only way one can be a father. Adoption is only one of the ways one can become a father, and to me it's a win-win for the child and for the family who chooses to bring that child into their homes. There are plenty of family situations that are worse than two responsible, caring men taking care of and raising a child.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that I will never look back and wonder what I did to "make him gay" shall he be so. If he flunks out of college, does too many drugs, knocks up a woman and doesn't act like a father, is abusive, goes to prison,and many other things I'll fret and wonder what I did wrong.

But let me tell you this and tell you this clearly: I don't give a rat's asshole if my son turns out to be gay. Zero. I simply don't care if he's straight or gay. I care that he has fulfilling, healthy relationships and is happy. Period.

Regardless, as everyone else has said, gay isn't a disease you catch from other gay people. DUH.
 

B_All4show

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC_DEEP [URL]http://www.lpsg.org/images36/buttons/viewpost.gif[/URL]
But very few who develop such a trusting relationship, and can impart social skills, as well. You know, that may be something sadly missing in modern society. It really would not be such a bad idea for today's youth to have mentors.

Amen. Hell, I wouldn't mind having you as a mentor now, DC.
I agree with HazelGod! I'm at a crossroads and would love such an intelligent, talented, funny, and trustworthy mentor.

My wife takes care of the woman's work, no need for DC to mentor. :smile:
 

B_All4show

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IAlso, for the record, you can't catch gayness. You can't teach gayness. Or maybe you can. DC, where'd you catch gayness? Is it an STD?:rolleyes: Ridiculous.

Really? Let's ask him...

For the record, I was the emotional object of a pederast when sixteen, in fact maybe another a few years later. I found the experience confusing because I was already well into discovering my heterosexual and emotional nature, but not harmful and I certainly bear no grudge to the man nor the nature of his emotional ideals.
 

Lucky_Luke

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For the record, I was the emotional object of a pederast when sixteen...
Using American political definitions for this topic pretty much kills any possibility of a serious discussion of the topic.

The term pedophilia applies to those who are sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children.

16-17 year olds are not pre-pubescent children, despite American laws.
 

B_All4show

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You fucking moron, DW is entirely heterosexual. He didn't catch no queer that I've seen evidence of.


I didn't ask you, you fucking idiot. (Is this how people talk all the time now? or just with me?) He said it caused him problems. I do not know the man, so it makes sense to ask him what effect it had on him.
 

AlteredEgo

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My wife takes care of the woman's work, no need for DC to mentor. :smile:
Um... DC is not a woman. Are you calling him a woman? Is your wife a man? This is confusing.:confused:


Really? Let's ask him...

Did you read the part where he said he was unharmed? Did you find a part where he said the experience "turned him gay"? I never read that part. Highlight it for me.
 

B_All4show

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Actually, any personal attack violates the TOS. Therefore, you are the pot calling the kettle black. You started it, at least in this thread.

I may have offended DC, but it was certainly not a personal attack. Your attack on me could be classified in no other way.
 

IntoxicatingToxin

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Along with everyone else, I could care less if my son were gay. I already have a brother, uncle, and great uncle who are gay... what's one more? As long as he is happy and healthy, then I'm happy. I'll even go so far as to say that I'd rather have a gay son who is completely happy and secure than a straight son who is not.
 

AlteredEgo

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I may have offended DC, but it was certainly not a personal attack. Your attack on me could be classified in no other way.
Let him speak know-it-all.

You're calling me names now. Also in violation of the TOS. Please show me where in this thread I attacked you, as opposed to one of your ideas. Oh, wait. You can't.

And anyway, I thought we did let drifterwood speak. His own words say he was unharmed, and even holds no grudges, nor disaproves of the man's emotional ideals. Are you expecting him to now say the opposite? That's ridiculous. You're reaching.
 

Drifterwood

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Well, it's lucky that I seem to have inverted jet lag.

I received immense emotional support from two gay men at critical times in my life. The one is the subject of this thread for me and the other I choose not to discuss. I also choose not to discuss my orientation with you All4show, but those who know me, know me.

I did not say that it caused me problems, I said that it caused me confusion. Confusion that perhaps you would also be the better man for having, for these men taught me as much about being a man as anyone has. Furthermore they gave me unconditional support that my upbringing had taught me was to be expected and sought only from women, something that sadly, with all due respect to the wonderful women I know, is not somethng that you should unquestiongly expect from the fairer sex.
 

AlteredEgo

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Okay, okay. But what about pederasts? I'm with NJQT. I had no idea pederasts weren't strictly pedophiles.

I wouldn't leave my children alone with peoople Whom I do not consider family. I intend to home school because I think my household can do better than the school system. I expect my children to be largely autodidactic- that is I expect them to learn to indulge the natural curiosity of children in a healthy way via books, museums, zoos, questions, and other hands-on experiences I will arrange for them. I expect my entire network of loved ones to participate in the deelopment of my children into well-adjusted, aelf-actualized adults. To that end I expect that there will be men and women who are not blood relatives, but who have something to teach my children, and that my children will have age-apropriate access to them and whatever experiences they can provide. (For example: I learned how to do my godbrother's job by following him around on his rounds; I learned to do aspects of my mother's job by going with her to meet vendor candidates for dinner...)

So, if it was a purely platonic relationship, one where any questions could be answered, or even just a deep friendship with one of my friends where issues could be discussed that my teens might not want to discuss with me, I'd be all for it. Better to have these loving, nurturing relationships with people who the family trusts than with someone whose motives are suspect. In the correct context, how could I be against a thoughtful, informative mentor? It takes a village, right?
 

B_ScaredLittleBoy

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Of course its unnatural

The design of nature is that we reproduce and spread our genes. Now before people start calling me a homophobe, unnatural /= bad or wrong or sick. It just means:

1.contrary to the laws or course of nature.

It (paederasty) seems a bit paedophilic to me. There is a power imbalance between the young and the old; the young generally look up to the old and are more easily led and led astray by them.

Anything sexual between two adults of average or higher intelligence is fine by me (providing consent is given).
 

earllogjam

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Church youth groups and boys scouts, sports etc. take the place of the classical form. As a youth director, many teenage boys would visit with me about issues that they felt awkward talking ot their dads. I had parents thanking me for being there for their son at youth meetings. While youth sessons didn't last long and only met once a week. After the formal lessons and activities were over, sometimes some of the boys would visit with me and the girls would visit with the lady counselor. Depending on the size of the group, we had two or three men and two or three ladies helping with the youth group. At times there would be only one male and one female adult when the group was small.

And those informal discussions didn't happen every week. Lot of times the boys just wanted to share the latest joke that they felt awkward sharing with dad and mom. Sometimes they would ask sex questions. I take sex ed at school, so not only did I know the subject the youth all knew that I taught it and I did teach most of the boys at school since it is a very small school in our community.

Nothing sexual every happened or came close to happening. Sometimes the issue of dick size would come up. And it might be years before it came up again. I am blessed to have a talent that I can relate to middle school and high school kids as well as elementary. Several adults have noticed that I have a way with youth and in the public school students with problems were put in my room so I could mentor them and keep them out of trouble. Many parents with kids with special needs requested me to be a teacher. Most of my career was with sixth grade. They are a delightful age capable of being totally kindergarten acting to being more emotionally mature than the seniors on given days And somewhere in the middle the rest of the time. I flowed with them. Heads up Seven Up a Kindergarten game if they requested it we played it. Other days they were way too old for that. I learned never to suggest it myself. Oh no they were to old.

The point is that some adults do have the ability and talent to mold young people. And this shouldn't require sex and part of the deal. Teen boys really want to have adult mentors other than their fathers to talk about sex issues, girl friends, being a man etc.

That is why most youth that don't get in trouble have a group with an adult mentor other than a parent that they heavily idenitfy with. There are exceptions to every rule, but in general, the teens that get into trouble in their early teens are usually teens that don't have a group to identify with and has an adult mentor.

Teens on their own don't know how to set boundaries. Adult mentors can teach the youth where the boundaries are. Boundaries that may be larger than mom and dad set as far as conversations and fun things. I remember a state wide youth event. I had a youth or two with me and anther church group happened to get there as we did. We parked on the wrong parking lot and had a long route if we went the marked way. One of the kids of their group suggested climbing that forbidden fence and take the short cut. At my age, I told them if they could help me get over the fence. Really they said. I laughed and said that it was easier to get forgiveness than permission. I didn't think much about it until three months later at the next youth event. Those kids, mostly girls, swarmed around me hugging me and saying they were glad to see me again. As it were, I had forgotten the incident. They were talking all about it. For that one event I an adult mentor who didn't even know their names, was a hero mentor.

It is like grandparents. every child needs one and if there isn't one close by an older adult needs to take that role. Kids and youth need a lot more than just mom and dad to raise them. Youth love to do social activities where mom and dad aren't there. It gives them a time and place to explore themselves with an mentor around to draw some boundaries if they are needed. Mentors can draw boundaries without incuring the wrath of young people then they can with their own parents. Remember youth are trying to break away and independent of mom and dad.

Yes adult mentors are needed and badly needed. There is absolutely no excuse for it to be sexual in nature. The closest thing to sexual nature is asking adults mentors things that they feel awkward asking mom and dad.

Freddie,

Kudos to your work with the kids. I think this is sorely needed in this day in age where many teens are isolated both emotionally and socially. I just think about Columbine, Virgina Tech and the many many other incidents that have been averted and all the needless deaths of kids killing kids, and I have a feeling that that is just the tip of the iceberg as there are probably many more who's cries go unheard.

Intergenerational learning is at an all time low as schools and youngsters are deliberately sheltered and separated from society at large for fear of child predators much to the detriment of their socialization and understanding of how the world works. The only connection most kids have to the grown up world are through people like you. Your work has eased many youth into their adulthoods I would gather and made kids feel more at home in society. I can't say that about TV, video games or the internet for that matter.

We live in an increasingly isolated society where we can exist as lonely souls. That loss of connection with other folks is a shame as there is tremendous pool of knowledge and support that goes untapped. I wonder if there really are more pedophiles today than say 50 years ago. I would think not but it has been sensationalized to the point where all parents are suspicious of ANY adult (friends included) taking an interest in their kids.

There is a kind of pedernasty in the gay world in the form of May-December relationships -older men taking younger lovers. I see a lot of younger thin asian men with older white guys. That seems like a stereotype but I do see it often.
 

AlteredEgo

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But it's not about gender, it's about who gives you unconditional support and how you react to that. I have been blessed to have received this from men and women, gay men and gay women, striahgt men and straight women.

No, no! I get that. I was referring more to your expectation, and what that expectation implied. The fact that it was an expectation indicates that that is a generally accepted gender role. The reality is, no one plays that roleall the time as a group, as you experienced. I think it's a topic that could potentially be explored in much greater depth, at another time, in another thread. Your thread, is about something else all-together.
 

Drifterwood

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No, no! I get that. I was referring more to your expectation, and what that expectation implied. The fact that it was an expectation indicates that that is a generally accepted gender role. The reality is, no one plays that roleall the time as a group, as you experienced. I think it's a topic that could potentially be explored in much greater depth, at another time, in another thread. Your thread, is about something else all-together.

For sure - my life is the richer for having got over the expectations that a 2.4 kid family engendered - pun intended :wink: