Pedophilia on LPSG and on the web in general

[Hellboy0]

Fair enuf. I honestly haven't run into these threads that talk about children (underage, mind you, not just young) in a sexual way. I'm surprised they're allowed to stay on the site and that the posters aren't pulled up on their behaviour.

 

[jmn5]

FWIW, I'm in total agreement with you Marley.

 

[marleyisalegend]

well i'm glad it looks like atleast a few people are taking into consideration the victims of pedophilia, the kids.

 

[Hellboy0]

A lot of this on the internet wouldn't be such a problem if parents got a bit more involved from Day One with their kids. I know that it's a different world than when I grew up, with a whole different set of challenges and dangers, but it seems like the one area where we as a society are really failing is in our parenting. We expect the schools and police to give them the discipline we used to get at home, we expect the the internet to magically recognise a kids age and ban them from pursuing or being pursued by predators, we expect kids to know what the hell they actually need (rather than what they want...two different things).

Where is Super Nanny when you need her? She'll whip those parents into line!! LOL

 

[Phil Ayesho]

I read it a few times, did you? I was appalled.

You being appalled is simply a reflection of your ignorance and your religiously driven hysteria over sexual issues.

Nothing I said implied that sex with children was acceptable.

I don't find Teen pregnancy acceptable, either... but I am far too intelligent and informed to imagine that "abstinence" education can possibly be effective.

Stop imagining the world IS or CAN BE the way you think it ought to and start trying to deal with the way it actually is.

NAMBLA and pedophiles in general believe that sex between adults and children is okay because children enjoy the feeling, and if they're enjoying it they can't be victims. Phil's post showed no empathy whatsoever for victims of child sexual abuse.

Listen you stupid shit. I WAS sexually "abused". Explain to me how I am not sympathetic?
What do you actually know about it?

I am telling you right now, it felt good. the attention from older people was ego-gratifying... the physcial sensations were pleasurable...

THIS IS WHY KIDS GET SEDUCED INTO IT.

It was also a confusing, sexuality altering, impediment to learning to deal with my attraction to women.

You can make up shit in your head all you please... but those who have been thru it know, whether they are able to face it or not.



Religiously driven hysteria over keeping everything sexual from children, especially information, is WHY I was ill equipped to avoid it.

I was a CHILD... where the fuck were YOU?
Where the fuck were my parents, my church, my society?


They were in the corner with their fingers in their fucking ears and their eyes closed "pretending" that kids don't have anything to do with sexual situations or sexual feelings.

Your kind of myopic inability to DEAL with reality is WHY children get molested.

Thanks for all your help.

 

[B_Trues]

what really is pedophilia

anything under 13/14 is the complete limit, IMO
unprotected sex with an adult and an u/18 is also wromg

my opinion only

 

[marleyisalegend]

call me crazy but the children who enjoy this behavior are probably far outnumbered by those who end up in therapy, on drugs, and/or becoming predators themselves

 

[Phil Ayesho]

PS- and the folks I know who were molested and who's molestation was "discovered"... the ones who went thru "therapy" and got "help" from this society?

They were the ones who suffered the most...
Not just from the actual experience... but even more so from the idiotic efforts of those who were trying to help... by essentially telling them point blank that only monsters can feel pleasure...


That is the failure of empathy for child victims...
the failure to UNDERSTAND and accept the child's experience as being valid...
the failure to explain to the child WHY they got pulled in...
the failure to help children understand how pleasure can be used to HARM them.

 

[SyddyKitty]

So, let's see. Kids are completely sexually innocent yet they still have those "summer camp experiences" with their friends of the time. I can remember 3 very sexual dreams I had, between the ages of 7 and 12, of my best friends. To describe them would make me seem like a pedophile, would it not? By the terms I've read here, it sure would.

To think kids don't have sexual feelings is insane - just as insane as thinking pedophiles are psychologically balanced people.

Molestation isn't the only thing sexual kids will experience. They have friends of their own age that can do similar things in "discovery".

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Both you Teacher, (and Marley), must be fucking twits.
Did you really, really READ Phil's post?

To suggest that Mambla would be proud of what Phil wrote beggars belief.

And to think that you two will be using you mental prowess to choose the next President of the USA.
(God help us all)

Thanks, Jamie..
I tend to agree... the response of Marley and Teacher show no comprehension of what I wrote.
And no empathy for MY experience as a victim of abuse.


I would be willing to bet money that neither of them read the post all the way thru.


And I think Marley was correct in one thing... He does lack the education to understand the concepts involved.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

seems like your response was an attempt to paint a "it ain't so bad" kind of portrait about children being sexualized, you seem to suggest that it's not that damaging because children become willing participants

Listen...
I will be perfectly honest with you.

Looking back as a 50 year old man...The worst thing about my molestation experience was the anxiety I felt over anyone finding out.

And, to be frank, a sexual experience is not anywhere NEAR the worst thing I can think of that can happen to a child.
An STD would be far worse. Physical abuse even worse still.

Sexual abuse is never a good thing... but the damage is in how society REACTS to it more than anything.
And how society reacts to it is largely the reason it happens in the first place.
Forbidden fruit and unspeakable things...

It lures kids in and leaves them unable to tell.


That does not mean that I think children should be having sexual experiences.

It does not mean that I think adults luring children into sexual situations is okay.
I think its a crime.
I think they are probably sexually fucked up people who were sexually abused as kids and never able to deal with it BECAUSE WE WHO HAVE BEEN THRU IT CAN'T TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT IT FELT GOOD without some shit for brains jackass like you accusing us of endorsing it.




I told you the TRUTH about what it is like to be "abused" as a kid.

Its not like getting beaten... which IMO is actually worse.

Pedophiles SEDUCE children. They USE the fact that it feels good... that the child wants attention from an adult, to talk kids into it.

That is why YOUR response is useless and ineffectual.



YEs... sexual stimulation feels good to children.

That is a scientific, biological fact.

I never said that was an argument for it being "okay". I would never agree that NAMBLA's position is valid Anymore than I would agree that 5 years olds should be allowed to drive cars cause they would like it.


Children, especially in this society, are not prepared for the fact that some Adults, and other children, will try to manipulate them thru sensory pleasure.

Offering your kid CANDY to get them to behave is the same kind of manipulation. Give them something they enjoy... and they will do what you want.
Parents TRAIN their children to respond to sensory reward.
And pedophiles take advantage of that.

Molestors get to kids by offering them their time and attention, and by offering them access to taboo knowledge that their parents were too hysterical to share. They get to kids by doing confusing things that feel good.


Now... understanding that is what it means to have sympathy for the victim... Its the necessary step to being able to prevent our kids from falling prey to it.



If my society had simply explained to me about sex... about how genitals work no matter what is rubbing on them... and about how pleasure can be used by older people to manipulate me... and about how that kind of pleasure. at that age, can affect me for the rest of my life...then that would make me far less likely to be taken in.


But your kind of blanket idiocy and refusal to acknowledge the truth about it is why kids are afraid to tell.


Again... thanks for all your help...

 

[marleyisalegend]

Listen...
I will be perfectly honest with you.

Looking back as a 50 year old man...The worst thing about my molestation experience was the anxiety I felt over anyone finding out.

And, to be frank, a sexual experience is not anywhere NEAR the worst thing I can think of that can happen to a child.
An STD would be far worse. Physical abuse even worse still.

Sexual abuse is never a good thing... but the damage is in how society REACTS to it more than anything.
And how society reacts to it is largely the reason it happens in the first place.
Forbidden fruit and unspeakable things...

It lures kids in and leaves them unable to tell.


That does not mean that I think children should be having sexual experiences.

It does not mean that I think adults luring children into sexual situations is okay.
I think its a crime.
I think they are probably sexually fucked up people who were sexually abused as kids and never able to deal with it BECAUSE WE WHO HAVE BEEN THRU IT CAN'T TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT IT FELT GOOD without some shit for brains jackass like you accusing us of endorsing it.




I told you the TRUTH about what it is like to be "abused" as a kid.

Its not like getting beaten... which IMO is actually worse.

Pedophiles SEDUCE children. They USE the fact that it feels good... that the child wants attention from an adult, to talk kids into it.

That is why YOUR response is useless and ineffectual.



YEs... sexual stimulation feels good to children.

That is a scientific, biological fact.

I never said that was an argument for it being "okay". I would never agree that NAMBLA's position is valid Anymore than I would agree that 5 years olds should be allowed to drive cars cause they would like it.


Children, especially in this society, are not prepared for the fact that some Adults, and other children, will try to manipulate them thru sensory pleasure.

Offering your kid CANDY to get them to behave is the same kind of manipulation. Give them something they enjoy... and they will do what you want.
Parents TRAIN their children to respond to sensory reward.
And pedophiles take advantage of that.

Molestors get to kids by offering them their time and attention, and by offering them access to taboo knowledge that their parents were too hysterical to share. They get to kids by doing confusing things that feel good.


Now... understanding that is what it means to have sympathy for the victim... Its the necessary step to being able to prevent our kids from falling prey to it.



If my society had simply explained to me about sex... about how genitals work no matter what is rubbing on them... and about how pleasure can be used by older people to manipulate me... and about how that kind of pleasure. at that age, can affect me for the rest of my life...then that would make me far less likely to be taken in.


But your kind of blanket idiocy and refusal to acknowledge the truth about it is why kids are afraid to tell.


Again... thanks for all your help...

phil if anyone's having a hard time understanding you, maybe its because in one paragraph you demand sensitivity towards your situation, insisting that you're a victim, then the next paragraph you tell us to lighten up because children enjoy these experiences and the only thing wrong with it is how society perceives it, illusional damage that isn't really caused because the child is a willing participant. as usual you're contradicting yourself

 

[D_Kay_Sarah_Sarah]

Maybe im not viewing the right threads but ive never seen anything id class as pedophile behavior here. Sure most people use the word young at some point, but im also sure they dont mean of child ages

 

[D_Cavernus Manhole]

Is pedophilia a disease? A good number of internet bloggers seem to reject this idea. The scientific evidence says otherwise. Pedophilia is both a disease and a criminal behavior according to experts. Pedophilia is recognized as a disease by the World Health Organization and Psychiatric Associations worldwide.


Typhoid, malaria, STDs are diseases "WHO" idiots, pedophilia is a choice, freakin morons.

 

[HyperHulk]

Maybe im not viewing the right threads but ive never seen anything id class as pedophile behavior here. Sure most people use the word young at some point, but im also sure they dont mean of child ages

How about:

http://www.lpsg.org/85991-realli-young.html#post1444250

http://www.lpsg.org/84514-how-much-your-penis-long.html

http://www.lpsg.org/85037-humiliated-younger-more-gifted-little.html

http://www.lpsg.org/32463-big-flaccid-at-early-age.html

http://www.lpsg.org/26995-hung-before-puberty.html

http://www.lpsg.org/81315-how-old-were-you-when.html

Just a couple I found that people posted in the last couple of weeks. Doesn't mean they are pedo intended but the conversations can become quite borderline if not over the line.

 

[Channelwood]

Please remember when discussing the subject to correctly distinguish between pedophilia, which by definition involves pre-pubescent children; illegal sexual activity with minors; and legal sexual activity with minors.

Many people lump the three together, confusing and misinterpreting the arguments during a meaningful discussion.

For example, sex with a 16-year old is:
A) Not pedophilia
B) Legal in one jurisdiction
C) Legal in another jurisdiction, depending on the ages of the participants
D) Illegal in another jurisdiction

 

[Phil Ayesho]

phil if anyone's having a hard time understanding you, maybe its because in one paragraph you demand sensitivity towards your situation, insisting that you're a victim, then the next paragraph you tell us to lighten up because children enjoy these experiences and the only thing wrong with it is how society perceives it, illusional damage that isn't really caused because the child is a willing participant. as usual you're contradicting yourself

First of all... let me apologize to you and teacher for my abusive language...

I ask that you understand that this is an issue I have had to live with all my life... and to be told I lack empathy for my own situation kind of took me by surprise.


as to your rank misrepresentation above...... rather than make up stuff...
Why don't you use the QUOTE feature to demonstrate exactly where I say to "lighten up" because kids "enjoy" it? Because I never said that.

I said its not the worst thing that can happen, unlike what a lot of puritanical hysterics think. Losing a limb is worse... being blinded is worse.... being physically abused is worse....
...hell, being ignored by your parents is far worse than having sex when you are too young to be having sex.

In fact... pedophiles specifically prey on kids whose parents are too busy or self absorbed to pay them enough attention.


And kids keep going back to their molesters because, honestly, being made to suck dick is LESS painful than being totally ignored.


That is not saying to "lighten up cause its okay"... its saying to stop being hysterical over it because its the hysteria of SHAME that causes children to suffer over it.

Its the hysteria of Shame that makes sex taboo... and children are drawn to the forbidden.

Its the hysteria of Shame that makes children hide what is being done to them.

Our own inability, as a culture, to deal with the fact of childhood sexual curiosity is what makes this painful for children.




As to sensitivity... no, I don't demand anything other than that you be consistent and truthful.

Don't ask a question if you won't reasonably listen to and consider an honest repsonse...

If all you want to hear is affirmations of your own prejudices, then just post your manifestos and don't bother seeking feedback.




What you and teacher need to learn from this site is that childhood sexual experiences, ranging from silly showing off all the way to full blown molestation and everything in between is astonishingly common.

That childhood curiosity about sex is NORMAL... and that good parenting and good education satisfies that curiosity with truthful information, rather than leaving children in the dark, on their own, ...to find out the hard way.

When people try to tell folks like you what they went thru and what it did to them... you and teacher have the temerity to be appalled at that truth.

Sorry reality doesn't fit in with your delusions...


But I consider myself and my honesty about this experience a good example for those who have been molested over time by someone they knew.

That you CAN learn to understand and accept that that formative experience HAS a real and lasting effect on your sexuality... and that you don't have to feel ashamed of it. You don't have to allow it to ruin your adult life... and you don't have to take the effect it does have all that seriously... its conditioning, that's all, and not a reflection on you as a person.


I have embraced my early experience.
It was something I was way too young to be involved in... too naive to understand at the time... but I accept my own immature decision to go thru with it. I didn't have to go back for more. And the reasons why I did go back I can understand and accept as seeming valid to an 11 year old boy.


I accept it as I do ANY stupid mistake I made as a child that left a lasting mark.
Because, really... its has no more significance than the scar I still bear from the neighbor's dog. ( I an still a little nervous around strange dogs)

I like gay porn.... I have had sex with men a handful of times, and I occasionally fantasize about gay sex.

All of that is the lingering effect of being molested.

So what?

I wasn't maimed, killed or disfigured.
To me... the tiny percentage of pedophiles who viscously attack children they don't know, physically harming them and sometimes killing them...

That is the real horror.... that is what is appalling to me.

What happened to me is not even in the same ballpark.
I get to live with my experience..

I can do that.

 

[The Dragon]

I have written about my experience as a victim of pedohpilia in my blog so there is no need for me to go into my experience here.

I have been trying to come to terms with the abuse my whole life.
I still to this day have screaming nightmares about what happened.
In alot of ways I am grateful to be able to function in social settings at all.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Dragonfly
I feel for you.
I had nightmares for years... and lived as a teen in terror that every girl could 'tell" what I had done.

The imprinting such experience leaves on the brain can be excruciating.


I can tell you what helped me.


You are NOT your experience. You are not your conditioning. You are not even the voice in your head.

You are the observational point of consciousness that hears that voice in your head.


Next time you catch yourself talking to yourself in your head... try this...
stop yourself in mid-sentence and realize that you already knew what that voice was going to say.


The brain is a tool for recording experience and seeking patterns so that it can more reliably predict future events to enhance your survival and success.

It takes years of effort... but you CAN re-program your brain to think differently, to assess a past experience differently... and you don't have to believe that the stuff your brain does on idle is really pertinent to you.


If you can find a copy, read Ron Smothermon's "Winning Thru Enlightenment".

Reading it really helped me come to grips with my own experience.
And let it drop away...

...mostly.

 

[HyperHulk]

I said its not the worst thing that can happen, unlike what a lot of puritanical hysterics think. Losing a limb is worse... being blinded is worse.... being physically abused is worse....
...hell, being ignored by your parents is far worse than having sex when you are too young to be having sex.

One of the problems with your arguments is that you tend to apply your personal experiences to groups as a whole and you ignore the experiences of others. You may have a sexual experience as a child that you found less traumatic than say, losing a limb. What about the many, many children who are forcibly raped against their will? Babies are raped. Many children who are raped are raped by their parents, so they have to deal with the issues of incest as well as the rape. Children are abducted and raped. The range of this sickness is unfathomable, but it surely occurs more than that what just happened with you.

We are not a bunch of uptight fundamentalists that have sticks up are asses. We're on LPSG, many of us are sexual adventurers ourselves. But that doesn't mean that we can't recognize that range of abuse that happens to children. I just don't understand how you can be telling people that their rape or sexual abuse is less traumatic as the other things you mentioned. I wouldn't wish any of those on anyone and I would never dare to say, well, some guy forced himself on you at 8, but hey, you could have it worse, you could have lost an eye. WTF?

Again, your experiences are not everyone else's. Many children to not feel pleasure from these experiences. If you're going to suggest that people come up with real solutions to these issues, than you have to start acknowledging that many many children experience pure horror when they are sexually abused. And condemning the molester, pedophile, sexual abuser is not what harms the child, it's what the pedophile has done to the child that creates the harm.

So yes, some of us are incredulous at what you've been writing. Me more so because of your failure to look beyond your own experience and see or as you say truly 'understand' what others have gone through with this. If you don't consider what happened to you to be that bad, that's your own personal view, you don't need to project that on to others.