Pelosi + Obama = Disaster for Americans & the Auto Industry

[D_Rod Staffinbone]

let's all get together and buy ford motor co. @ around $2.00
a share, make it employee owned (possibly non-union even) rename it lpsg motors. change the world. free cookies w/ each car purchase.

lpsg for "low price saves gas"

 

[vince]

Reid, Pelosi Urge Treasury to Extend Aid to Automakers

Let’s watch this unfold ….

….. as in the next several months the domestic auto industry will get a much needed bailout but under the direction of the liberals it will be a Band-Aid that will ultimately fail as the liberals will not ensure the auto industry gets rid of its real problem being the UAW and legacy costs.

Like United Airlines did when it got rid of antiquated pay systems/obligations recently, the auto industry needs the same but the wacky democrats in-charge are just gonna end up costing us all big money and not fix the real problem.

Fucking liberals that spend my money pandering to the cause instead of the problem will sum this up soon, and I’m sure this will only be the start.

You don’t know what you are talking about.

As I recall, the last time a auto company needed a bailout, it was under the democratic 'liberal' administration of the much reviled Jimmy Carter.

I did a quick google search and came up with the following quick history lesson for you bigg:

In 1979, Chrysler Corp. was facing bankruptcy. The company sought $1.2 billion in interest-free cash loans from taxpayers. President Carter said no. His treasury secretary instead, and over several months, negotiated with Chrysler $1.5 billion in loan guarantees. The company would have to borrow the money from banks. Taxpayers would be on the hook for the money only if the company failed.

The Carter administration attached strict conditions. The loan guarantees were contingent on Chrysler's employees -- unionized, non-unionized and management -- contributing $587 million ($1.6 billion in today's dollars) in pay and benefits cuts. Chrysler was required to replace lost wages and benefits by giving employees a $162 million ownership stake in the company through stock. The federal government would have a three-member board, including the Treasury secretary, overseeing the loans -- and giving the board authority to set fees on the loan repayment.

The Carter administration left it up to Chrysler's chairman, Lee Iacocca, to devise a plan that would bring Chrysler back to profitability. He did, first with the K-Car, then with the minivan concept. Chrysler started making money in the 1980s. Under the leadership of Iacocca, Chrysler also doubled its corporate average miles-per-gallon.

In 1983, Chrysler paid off the loans that had been guaranteed by US taxpayers. The Treasury was also $350 million richer.

 

[vince]

I'm glad you have cookies because the rest of us are going to show up at your house when we have nothing to eat.

Not paying attention and allowing our leaders free reign without any oversight or questioning is foolish no matter who is in charge.
Guess the foolish put Obama in charge.

Need to change your name from "mindseye" to "Closedeye"

I completely agree with the bolded part. De-regulation is a bad thing.

Pitbull, personal insults are a sign of intellectual bankruptcy.

 

[deleted15807]

Pitbull, personal insults are a sign of intellectual bankruptcy.

Exactly. When you can't support your ideas with logic and reason then the only thing left is 'you pal around with terrorists', 'you're a socialist', 'you're a Marxist','you hate America don't you', 'you don't support our troops',yada yada yada. It's very effective in dumbing down the discussion and very effective in people who don't like to think too hard.

 

[1BiGG1]

Good job GM execs building products no one wants

I think maybe the title Largest Auto Manufacturer on the planet for nearly eight decades selling 9+ million vehicles annually worldwide might kinda dispute your wacky allegation they are building products nobody wants.

 

[1BiGG1]

You don’t know what you are talking about.

As I recall, the last time a auto company needed a bailout, it was under the democratic 'liberal' administration of the much reviled Jimmy Carter.

I did a quick google search and came up with the following quick history lesson for you bigg:

In 1979, Chrysler Corp. was facing bankruptcy. The company sought $1.2 billion in interest-free cash loans from taxpayers. President Carter said no. His treasury secretary instead, and over several months, negotiated with Chrysler $1.5 billion in loan guarantees. The company would have to borrow the money from banks. Taxpayers would be on the hook for the money only if the company failed.

The Carter administration attached strict conditions. The loan guarantees were contingent on Chrysler's employees -- unionized, non-unionized and management -- contributing $587 million ($1.6 billion in today's dollars) in pay and benefits cuts. Chrysler was required to replace lost wages and benefits by giving employees a $162 million ownership stake in the company through stock. The federal government would have a three-member board, including the Treasury secretary, overseeing the loans -- and giving the board authority to set fees on the loan repayment.

The Carter administration left it up to Chrysler's chairman, Lee Iacocca, to devise a plan that would bring Chrysler back to profitability. He did, first with the K-Car, then with the minivan concept. Chrysler started making money in the 1980s. Under the leadership of Iacocca, Chrysler also doubled its corporate average miles-per-gallon.

In 1983, Chrysler paid off the loans that had been guaranteed by US taxpayers. The Treasury was also $350 million richer.

Chrysler’s bailout has absolutely zero to do with this topic. I think you are the one who doesn’t know what he is talking about.

 

[D_Marazion Analdouche]

Auto assembly plant workers make almost 70% more per hour than someone in another industry doing a similar job.

GM salaries paid for hourly employees comes out to something close to 75 million a week for 70000 employees. That IS NOT including health and other benefits paid out. That figure almost doubles when everthing is added in.

I'm all about people making a decent living but there is no reason in the world that people putting a bumper on a car should be making 56K a year before overtime.

That's more than most teachers, police officers, firefighters and a lot of degree needing occupations.

Unions were great when people were working in sweatshops back in the days of the Mills. Now, not so much.

Assembly plant workers are grossly overpaid.

 

[mindseye]

Chrysler’s bailout has absolutely zero to do with this topic. I think you are the one who doesn’t know what he is talking about.

You started this thread by cluck-clucking about what might hypothetically potentially maybe could happen in the future if the Democrats bailed out an industry that failed under a Republican administration. Vince responded by citing a past example as evidence of a successful auto industry bailout by the Democrats.

In doing so, he's brought more evidence to this discussion than you have.

 

[lucky8]

I think maybe the title Largest Auto Manufacturer on the planet for nearly eight decades selling 9+ million vehicles annually worldwide might kinda dispute your wacky allegation they are building products nobody wants.

He has a point though. If GM and Ford would up their game and start adapting to consumer demands, they wouldn't be so threatened by Asian auto manufacturers domestically. Most of their sales now come from abroad as opposed to the U.S. Personally, I believe letting one of them fail, either Ford or GM, (preferably Ford) would help spur the auto innovation this country once had and needs again. We can't keep bailing out every large business that doesn't know how to compete in today's market, it will kill competition and innovation, and that is the last thing we need

 

[deleted15807]

I think maybe the title Largest Auto Manufacturer on the planet for nearly eight decades selling 9+ million vehicles annually worldwide might kinda dispute your wacky allegation they are building products nobody wants.

Tell him..........

GM alone needs $25B, and won't be clear on how long that will last them. Thru Q1??? that still won't be enough. They are almost done.

Good job unions... eventually a turnip stops giving blood.

 

[1BiGG1]

You started this thread by cluck-clucking about what might hypothetically potentially maybe could happen in the future if the Democrats bailed out an industry that failed under a Republican administration. Vince responded by citing a past example as evidence of a successful auto industry bailout by the Democrats.

In doing so, he's brought more evidence to this discussion than you have.

Duh, the auto industry failed under a republican administration = now that’s scraping the bottom of the critical thinking skills & reason barrel now isn’t it lol! Or course your inability to form a cogent argument is a non sequitur but hey, again you are good for a laugh! :biggrin1:

That’s nothing though = here’s where it really gets funny! First you mock me for the topic of this thread and follow with patting another on the back for allegedly bringing “evidence” to something that according too you doesn’t exist lol! :biggrin1:

 

[Principessa]

Silly me. I thought the downfall of the American auto industry was it's persistence in making oversized, gas guzzlers when everyone is screaming for fuel efficiency and hybrids.

 

[mindseye]

Or course your inability to form a cogent argument is a non sequitur but hey, again you are good for a laugh! :biggrin1:

They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, so um, thanks. You've got the words down; now try using them correctly.

In doing so, he's brought more evidence to this discussion than you have.

First you mock me for the topic of this thread and follow with patting another on the back for allegedly bringing “evidence” to something that according too you doesn’t exist lol!

No, I fully concede that this discussion exists.

 

[1BiGG1]

He has a point though. If GM and Ford would up their game and start adapting to consumer demands, they wouldn't be so threatened by Asian auto manufacturers domestically. Most of their sales now come from abroad as opposed to the U.S. Personally, I believe letting one of them fail, either Ford or GM, (preferably Ford) would help spur the auto innovation this country once had and needs again. We can't keep bailing out every large business that doesn't know how to compete in today's market, it will kill competition and innovation, and that is the last thing we need

GM and Ford have a long history of successfully adapting to consumer demands in all of their markets including this one. They were building what sold here. A little more than a year ago they couldn’t give a small car away and Asian manufacturers were scrambling to make larger, more powerful cars, SUV’s and trucks for this market. Skyrocketing gas prices couldn’t be predicted and when that happened manufacturers cannot retool overnight.

For letting them fail that may be a double edged sword. I believe they should be allowed to fail and restructure like United Airlines and many others did as well but at the same time consumer confidence could dwindle making their restructuring into profitability a difficult task.

The best thing would be a bailout short of bankruptcy that allowed the companies to x current union contracts and all legacy costs but with the liberals track record of pandering to the cause (like the unions and pension funds) instead of the problem that will not happen imo.

 

[1BiGG1]

They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, so um, thanks. You've got the words down; now try using them correctly.

LOL, throwing your insults back in your face and doing a better job of it is something you have a problem with? You should be more worried about the gross lack of critical thinking skills Mr. “John McCain is Anti-Black” don’t ya think lol! That way maybe you can figure out what is, and what is not correct! :wink:

 

[deleted213967]

The trouble with pulling the plug on the US auto industry's respirator is that it would be politically ruinous for anyone, Obama included.

Not letting it die (quickly) is also getting increasingly ruinous, but the cost is spread.

That industry is also extremely concentrated geographically: letting it die would almost literally kill an entire state.

I seriously doubt a Ford-GM merger would solve the root problems (2 wrongs don't make a right).

 

[mindseye]

You should be more worried about the gross lack of critical thinking skills Mr. “John McCain is Anti-Black” don’t ya think lol!

As a teacher, I worried about it for years, but came to understand that there's very little that can be done for people who've reached your age and still haven't developed any. You must get awfully tired of swimming around in that barrel.

 

[1BiGG1]

As a teacher, I worried about it for years, but came to understand that there's very little that can be done for people who've reached your age and still haven't developed any. You must get awfully tired of swimming around in that barrel.

A teacher that is how old and still hasn’t finished anything but a bachelors degree (likely Liberal Arts lol!) is spinning like the bachelors was bought from an Internet degree mill but hey, there is hope your gross lacking in critical thinking skills will rectify itself one day anyway. I "rooting" for you! :wink:

 

[VeeP]

That industry is also extremely concentrated geographically: letting it die would almost literally kill an entire state.

Not to mention the country-wide ripple effect on it's ancillary industries and entities would be phenomenal. It would seem we've managed to kick this can right down a dead-end street.

 

[B_starinvestor]

Not to mention the country-wide ripple effect on it's ancillary industries and entities would be phenomenal. It would seem we've managed to kick this can right down a dead-end street.

A substantial number of the ancillary industries have been destroyed. Vendors, suppliers, distributors, etc., have been falling like dominoes for a few years.

Its sad, but I fear the day is coming soon.