penduli pendulum

[Freddie53]

Originally posted by DoubleMeatWhopper@May 4 2005, 01:35 PM


I know that, but I was using the legal term rather than a clinical one. I'm sorry, but the MKL story just makes me angry. I am a teacher, and at wrestling practice every day I am in a lockerroom full of naked 14-18 year-old males. Some of the older ones are very attractive (yes, Pete: I look), but it would be grossly inappropriate for me to approach any of them sexually. I would be abandoning my responsibility as a teacher. Mary Kay Letourneau's relationship with Vili Fualaau cannot ever be a 'normal' relationship because the physical and emotional aspects of it were initiated in an atmosphere where they were not equals. If she had waited until Vili were no longer a student of hers and of legal age of consent, I say fine: more power to her. That's not the case. Their relationship will always carry the taint of statutory rape. Add to that the fact that they live in the spotlight of infamy now; that lack of privacy is likely to take its toll on their marriage. She set the stage for her own breakdown, but she's bringing her victim down with her.

[post=307918]Quoted post[/post]​

As a retired teacher I agree with what you are saying. Certainlly teachers are going to notice. That is to be expected. But no, teachers can't act on anything while the student is under their authority. Legally I suppose the two could get married now that they are adults. But morally, the marriage will always be under a cloud of false foundation in that it wasn't between two equals to begin with. Therefore, the marriage has major moral flaws in it.

As I did say though and Nixxie puts in his later post, legally I don't see the reason for legally preventing it once the sentences have been carried out and completed which included them not seeing each other for a set number of years.

But morally.... it is a different ballgame.

 

[jonb]

Originally posted by DoubleMeatWhopper@May 4 2005, 10:35 AM
I know that, but I was using the legal term rather than a clinical one.

The legal term is sexual molestation, or statutory rape. Or you can just cut out all the four-syllable words and say child rape.

I'm sorry, but the MKL story just makes me angry. I am a teacher, and at wrestling practice every day I am in a lockerroom full of naked 14-18 year-old males. Some of the older ones are very attractive (yes, Pete: I look), but it would be grossly inappropriate for me to approach any of them sexually.

True. There's not as much age difference between you and them as there was between Letourneau and Fualaau, but the power imbalance is still there. As it is in all teacher-student relationships, if not all age-disparate relationships.

I can understand why you're angry too, since it violates everything in your teaching experience. I haven't seen Vili's penis, but if I were to see it, I'd watch for cuts on it. The type of cuts inflicted by a razor or exacto knife. He's lucky he doesn't seem to have gender identity problems.

 

[madame_zora]

I think our society is so far off the deep end we're lucky we don't drown. How can anything ever be "normal" for this boy? Yes, he's an adult now, but to grow up and marry your molestor- well if that doesn't speak for itself, I don't know what does.

Just because she didn't hold him down and force him against his will doesn't mean she didn't manipulate the situation. It's disgusting, and a violation to the trust most teachers take seriously when given the task of education our children. If the gender roles were reversed, I seriously doubt the male teacher would be getting out of prison anytime soon.

 

[steve319]

Originally posted by madame_zora@May 4 2005, 10:30 PM
If the gender roles were reversed, I seriously doubt the male teacher would be getting out of prison anytime soon.

[post=308100]Quoted post[/post]​

Sad but true.

I understand there's a segment of the population who thinks this is sweet, right? I can't imagine how these misguided romantics out there can overlook the horrible criminal nature of the situation and see this as anything other than horrifyingly sad.

Isn't this reminiscent of all the abused women who keep going back to their violent spouses? Nothing any of us or the legal authorities can do to stop it either. Even worse though, this kid has been denied any possibility of growing up with a healthy sexuality.

There may not be any legal standing to stop it, but that doesn't make it any less awful. She should still be under lock and key and psychiatric evaluation.

 

[surferboy]

I totally agree Jana. On the whole thing. She totally manipulated him, and it was disgusting. And if MKL was a dude, there's no way in hell she'd be out. Which I find disturbingly wrong. Justice for all! However, now that the dude is an adult, there's no justification for stopping them from seeing eachother. I don't know where the judge that told them to stay away gets off, but it's wrong. That can be setting a totally dangerous precedent, yah? If the court disagrees with yer relationship, then they can keep you apart? No no no.

 

[PonyPete]

Originally posted by DoubleMeatWhopper@May 4 2005, 06:35 PM
Some of the older ones are very attractive (yes, Pete: I look)

I'd be surprised -- not to mention a little insulted -- if you didn't look. Heck, I'm straight and I look.

I agree with most of the posters. Sure he's an adult now, but they never would've gotten together if she hadn't overstepped her bounds. Their relationship is the result of a molestation committed by one of them upon the other, and that's a pretty pathetic foundation for what is supposed to be romance.

 

[jonb]

About the only thing redeeming about this love story is that, if it were a movie, I'd watch it. (I like fucked-up love stories.)

 

[Bananaman]

Originally posted by jonb@May 5 2005, 03:45 PM
About the only thing redeeming about this love story is that, if it were a movie, I'd watch it. (I like fucked-up love stories.)

[post=308387]Quoted post[/post]​

Wait a while, jonb. No doubt it will be sooner or later. How about we have some fun trying to guess who the stars will be?

B-man

 

[madame_zora]

Well, we have plenty of young'uns here to play the part, I'll vote for Yaoi and Dr. Bubbles (she is an academic, y'know&#33

 

[D_Humper E Bogart]

Now that's TV worth watching!

Personally, perhaps it's better if there were more "women with balls" and "men with 'ginas" then the world might even itself out. (I mean this emotionally, not literally). Jana, you're almost unique to me in that you know what you want, how to get it and don't let people stand in your way. My mum's actually starting to become a lot like you (she better not be lurking LPSG&#33 I can admit, I'm flawed, fucking flawed to the point of being condemed as "broke" sometimes, but I need people like you to feed me full of facts and make sense of this screwed up world we exist in and make my own choices based on this knowledge.

Why is it so difficult for so many people not to see that?
Equality cannot exist while the "differentiating factor" is still mentioned.

 

[madame_zora]

Orca, I'm so glad to see you around more, I missed you, buddy! I'm also glad your mum's coming out of her shell, sometimes it's takes us a while, yanno? I won't lie to you, the world is not always a kind place to "women with balls" because most of society still thinks we are suppoesed to be subservient and sweet (bleeeeck&#33. Having balls automatically makes you a ball-breaker to a mot of men, they just don't like to have their total superiority questioned. I just went through a short term realtionship where this became apparent, and I think the guy was surprised at himself! He thought he was all up for being with a woman with a strong sense of self esteem, but in the end he was visciously attacking me (verbally only&#33 and using the things I'd told him about myself to try to degrade me. Now fortunately, I've told 12,000 people on this board almost every little detail, so those things don't bother me anymore but it SUX that someone wanted to see me hurt, just because I'm happy. Creep.

I think this is a generational thing though. I see a lot more younger people who don't view each other in such static role types, and I wish better things for your generation.

Oh yeah, women using their power for good will enrich the world, but they still need to keep their hands out of little boys' underwear! Wait until they can buy their own beer and cigarettes.

 

[jonb]

Yaoi's too old to play the part. Do we have any thirteen-year-olds of the Polynesian persuasion here? And Dr. Bubbles is too young to play 35, and she doesn't exactly look like someone from OC.

 

[B_RoysToy]

Originally posted by Shelby@May 3 2005, 07:46 PM
. . . . I just don't feel the general populace is anywhere near as angry about this as it would be if the roles were reversed.

[post=307550]Quoted post[/post]​

But what else can be expected from a general populace that put George Bush in the White House?

 

[jonb]

Yeah, well, there'd be a LOT more outrage if Mary-Kay Letourneau were male, regardless of Vili Fualaau's gender, but the outrage would cause spontaneous human combustion if they were both male.

 

[D_Humper E Bogart]

Right, lets get the media manipulation commitee on the phone!

-----------------
Zora, well, in my experiances, I let women work ME out, rather than the other way around, okay, so they think I'm complicated, but heck, I love "perpetual insanity". I'm surprised people are so "brash" with you, men should pay you to be with them..or something. I wouldn't know about "the generation gap" when it comes to attitudes towards women, but at uni, I think women tend to be the sharpest thinkers and are good at knowing what they want.

 

[madame_zora]

That's funny that you see women at uni that way, I hope it's true here as well. When I was in college, I was so shy I never made a single friend except my roommates. I never did grow balls until I was in my 30's, but then- look out! Guess I'm making up for lost time. Unfortunately for me, I have yet to find the guy my age that doesn't see me as a threat, but I plan to live to be 100 so I may find him yet!

Men who "pay to be with" women still treat us like shit, there's just no winning.

 

[13788]

orionsword57:

Originally posted by surferboy@May 4 2005, 08:50 PM
...Justice for all!...

[post=308155]Quoted post[/post]​

For me, that's the real point. We've come a long way in our legal structure to see that the disadvantaged and preyed-upon have better rights and protection, but our courts and the rulings coming from them have to do with ONLY one thing, ie... the power of money. They say that the only people left running for political office are the power-hungry, and it can equally be said that the only people now going to law schools are those who don't care a fig for what's right or wrong. I'm privvy to situation after situationn where the people with the most money and the most expensive attorneys win regardless of the situation. Equality that still must be judged in our courts doesn't exist. I've had too many lawyers admit this to me out of the court room and in private!

 

[D_Humper E Bogart]

Yeah, and true equality is a long way behind.

Anyway, WTF is Jacko anyway, is he even male anymore?
------
Personally, I find it annoying that women are forced to take on so many roles as parent, breadwinner and wife, and that is seen as all that a women can acomplish. There is the pursuit of personal happiness for a start, or great research, acts of charity or integrity? Why do women in the "meeja" see marriage is something that's good and child-rearing the best thing that can happen?

It is a great thing, don't get me wrong, but men are raised that "we're free to do what we want". In fact, that might be why men sometimes don't know what they want and make shit husbands and fathers. But we're not hindered from going the distance, heck, Rosalind Franklin comes to mind as a woman of such dedication, but her modern autobiography made out her life as tragic as she had no lovers or offspring...but she co-discovered the structure of DNA and discovered the structure of the Tobacco Mosaic virus, see what I mean?

-------------------------
Zora, well, the women I know are mainly students, and even the female lecturers have a passion for their subject which is really quite enthralling. They manage to live their lives and their careers and are simply stunning. Most of my peers are very lively, I think I'm one of the "deader" students when it comes to attitudes of work!