Penis Size Debate

[kiwimarty]

Nothing from the creationists?

 

[pete543]

Nothing from the creationists?

Touche. How could there be such beautiful large cocks without a creator--they must be a product of intelligent design.

 

[Silvertip]

It's not racist because its true there is a variation in height between asians and americans, while all studies show there is no correlation between penis size and race.

I would propose that "American" is not a race, whereas "Asian" can legitimately be seen as such. But if you were to substitute "Caucasian" for "American" you would find that a significant differential in height would exist between the two races, i.e. on average Asians are significantly shorter than Caucasians. So that in itself disproves your contention that there is no correlation between race and penis size. It in fact illustrates that there is some correlation between race and penis size. I say that because " ... research with sizable samples has found penis size to be correlated positively with height (Edwards, 1998; Ponchietti et al., 2001). Are we now to believe that Edwards and Ponchietti have no idea what they are talking about?

i admit the debate does get a bit silly though, since many men refuse to accept that size isn't important even though almost all women think this idea is ridiculous. Perhaps more focus should be paid on something that has been absolutely conclusively demonstrated by sexologists. such as the fact that male physical attractiveness (particularly facial semetricality) has the highest correlation with prevalence of female sexual orgasm. Guess uglies with big dicks who think they're women are satisfied are mistaken....

Semetricality? Semetricality?? What the hell is that??? Is it perchance in any way related to symmetry? I'm afraid that the quality of PhD students these days has really taken a hit.

 

[B_Over_Endowed_EMT]

This may have been said before but there was no context started at the beginning. "Size matters....." during sex? for procreation? For substituting your cock for a tent pole? Thats the main issue with why this has gone sideways. For sex its preference, USUALLY. For procreation a LONGER one is better because it increases the survivability of sperm. For tent poles its a MUST.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

Perhaps more focus should be paid on something that has been absolutely conclusively demonstrated by sexologists. such as the fact that male physical attractiveness (particularly facial semetricality) has the highest correlation with prevalence of female sexual orgasm.

Semetricality? Semetricality?? What the hell is that??? Is it perchance in any way related to symmetry? I'm afraid that the quality of PhD students these days has really taken a hit.

Good point, Silvertip, and one I regretted not making.
Symmetry is the better word, and 'semetricality' in any case would properly be spelled 'symmetricality.'
(Another thing: One can 'pay attention,' but does one 'pay focus'? Don't think so.)
Tsk tsk. PhD students just ain't what they used to be.

In other news, I am more interested in the claim that sexologists have absolutely demonstrated that "male physical attractiveness (particularly facial semetricality) [sic] has the highest correlation with prevalence of female sexual orgasm."
I don't see how this could be demonstrated "absolutely and conclusively."
But if there's even a weak demonstration of such, it would be interesting.
I wonder if our OP could provide references.

(Forgetting female orgasm for a moment, symmetry has long been mentioned as a component of facial beauty, but I have seen at least one study in which people were asked to pick out the most beautiful of a great range of faces; the researchers, somewhat to their own surprise, found that symmetry ranked far lower than they expected among the characteristics of the most often chosen faces. Of course, that was just one study.)

 

[tiberian777]

Penis size does matter but if you really poll most women they tend to "prefer" men on the large size of average rather than just average or humongous. There is a certain "wow" factor to being extremely hung but as many size queens there are out there there is a larger segment of women who find huge penises uncomfortable. There are some that prefer smaller penis and others who want really big ones of course, but if you're on the large size of average that is the best place to be if you want to please the most number of women.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

Penis size does matter but if you really poll most women they tend to "prefer" men on the large size of average rather than just average or humongous. There is a certain "wow" factor to being extremely hung but as many size queens there are out there there is a larger segment of women who find huge penises uncomfortable. There are some that prefer smaller penis and others who want really big ones of course, but if you're on the large size of average that is the best place to be if you want to please the most number of women.

This is the impression I have.

 

[ShannonH]

Speaking to the whole gorillas vs humans thing, I'm familiar with the anthropologist who claimed that male dick size is from female selection, but looking outside of social behaviour gives a more reliable and much simpler answer: it's about birth weight. Vaginas are built to the size of the birth weight of that species' young, while penises evolve very quickly to be a compatible size for the vagina. Among primates, gorillas have very small babies, chimps have babies about twice the weight of a gorilla, and humans have babies twice the weight of chimp babies. Gorillas have the smallest penises, chimps are about twice that size, and humans are twice the size of chimps. The big reason our babies weight the most (and chimps' weigh more than gorillas') is because our brains barely grow over our lives, so bigger brains -> bigger young -> bigger vaginas -> bigger penises.

Penis size does matter but if you really poll most women they tend to "prefer" men on the large size of average rather than just average or humongous. There is a certain "wow" factor to being extremely hung but as many size queens there are out there there is a larger segment of women who find huge penises uncomfortable. There are some that prefer smaller penis and others who want really big ones of course, but if you're on the large size of average that is the best place to be if you want to please the most number of women.

This is supported by the sex-toy sales if you scroll through online shops based on popularity of various sex toys.
- Overwhelmingly, the most popular are smaller vibrators for clitoral stimulation.
- Among dildos, the most popular (and standard) are around 8x5, but consider you'd need at least 2" for a handle. About 6" insertable is the norm. So 6x5 is the most popular, which is just on the larger size of average (which is in line with what you've said)
- Large sized dildos are generally 7-8" insertable and 5.5" circumference. Any site that lists the width only isn't reliable -- I've seen several that list 5" circumference dildos at 2" width.
- Giant dildos get to impossibly huge sizes for human anatomy to support (15x9 or so) and are for the most part just gag gifts, or an extreme that appeals to a very small crowd. Even among those that use them seriously, nearly anyone who owns a giant one will also own a large and/or average one too.
- Small dildos (4" girth or less) are really popular too, mainly for anal. I'd trade places with a small dick guy who gets regular anal from his girlfriend in a heartbeat.

Keep in mind too that dildo length is the maximum possible length, but one could always just keep the strokes more shallow, so unless it's for strapon/suction cup use that length is the point where its owner doesn't want it to be any longer.

So in summary, sales figures for toys simulating dicks that can be made to any possible size are a much more reliable way to track preferences than just listening to 3rd party accounts on the internet of what we think people want.

 

[1kmb1]

how does the fact that humans as a species have a larger penis than a gorilla entail that human females use penis size as a criterion for selecting other human males? Even, if you manage to connect these ideas somehow, seems like it would be a pretty tenuous connection.

also what on earth makes you think gorillas do not participate in sexual selection???????

i didnt say that they use penis size to choose their mates. i said that they actively choose their mates. when youre actively choosing mates, only the preferred or advantageous characteristics are passed on.

humans have evolved large penises compared to other primates, thus penis size is preferred or advantageous. therefore science supports the statement "penis size matters."

gorillas establish groups of 1 mature male, a young non breeding male, and several females, known as harems. the males then fight for control of the harem. this is why male gorillas are around twice as big as females. obviously the females dont have a choice in which male controls the harem, they base their sexual selection on which gorilla is the big boss gorilla.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

gorillas establish groups of 1 mature male, a young non breeding male, and several females, known as harems. the males then fight for control of the harem. this is why male gorillas are around twice as big as females. obviously the females dont have a choice in which male controls the harem, they base their sexual selection on which gorilla is the big boss gorilla.

According to Wikipedia, the process is more complicated than that, 1kmb1:

Females incite copulation by pursing their lips and slowly approaching a male while establishing prolonged eye contact. If the male does not respond, then she will try to attract his attention by reaching towards him or slapping the ground.[40] In multi-male groups, solicitation indicates female preference. However females can be coerced to mate with multiple males.[40] Males incite copulation by approaching a female and displaying at her or touching her and giving a "train grunt".

 

[Incocknito]

This depends on what you are referring to.

For reproduction, size does not matter. At least not anything bigger than 4", they can all do the same job.

Promiscuity/number of partners is not related to penis size and is related to social factors like financial wealth and social status. It's not even really based on looks a lot of the time.

Sexual satisfaction of females can be related to penis size but you can use dildos/toys and you can turn on a woman's mind so that penis size does not matter. ie some girls will cum if you just suck their tits. No penis involved there.

So it depends what out of those is most important to you.

The fact is that most women are having babies with average endowed men. Are they all unhappy in their sex lives? Or are the majority of women looking for more important things than a big dick?

As if there is anything more important than a big dick! All the womens want to go large for an extra 20p.

 

[1kmb1]

According to Wikipedia, the process is more complicated than that, 1kmb1:

Females incite copulation by pursing their lips and slowly approaching a male while establishing prolonged eye contact. If the male does not respond, then she will try to attract his attention by reaching towards him or slapping the ground.[40] In multi-male groups, solicitation indicates female preference. However females can be coerced to mate with multiple males.[40] Males incite copulation by approaching a female and displaying at her or touching her and giving a "train grunt".

that would be why i said "(obviously simplified for convenience)"

i feel like were missing the point:

the main point is that gorillas and (other primates) have tiny penises, and evolution would dictate that we would to if in fact size didnt matter.

the op was

It's clear that science is on the side of those who say penis size doesn't matter.

and this is clearly not the case. considering that all human males (barring extreme cases) have large penises.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

that would be why i said "(obviously simplified for convenience)"

i feel like we're missing the point:

the main point is that gorillas and (other primates) have tiny penises, and evolution would dictate that we would to if in fact size didn't matter.

Well, ShannonH gave an explanation according to which size would matter, but it has nothing to do with females preferring large penises.

Here is Shannon's post (in part):

Speaking to the whole gorillas vs humans thing, I'm familiar with the anthropologist who claimed that male dick size is from female selection, but looking outside of social behaviour gives a more reliable and much simpler answer: it's about birth weight. Vaginas are built to the size of the birth weight of that species' young, while penises evolve very quickly to be a compatible size for the vagina. Among primates, gorillas have very small babies, chimps have babies about twice the weight of a gorilla, and humans have babies twice the weight of chimp babies. Gorillas have the smallest penises, chimps are about twice that size, and humans are twice the size of chimps. The big reason our babies weight the most (and chimps' weigh more than gorillas') is because our brains barely grow over our lives, so bigger brains -> bigger young -> bigger vaginas -> bigger penises.

I don't know if that's a true account of what happened, but it makes a lot of sense to me.

Now, your explanation depended on gorilla males doing all the choosing (unless I misconstrue what you're saying ... and perhaps I do), but the Wikipedia article suggests that both males and females do the choosing:

"In multi-male groups, solicitation indicates female preference. However females can be coerced to mate with multiple males."

Note, the article is talking about multi-male groups. For me, the simple meaning is that the groups may be more evenly mixed between males and females and that both genders importune for sex. (The mention of "multiple males" is a clue.)

Your account describes the male team as a pairing of a boss bull and non-breeding sidekick:

gorillas establish groups of 1 mature male, a young non breeding male, and several females, known as harems. the males then fight for control of the harem. this is why male gorillas are around twice as big as females. obviously the females dont have a choice in which male controls the harem, they base their sexual selection on which gorilla is the big boss gorilla.

If your account is right, then size queen female gorillas can never indulge their preferences. But the Wikipedia article implicitly suggests they should be able to do that.

I am not an expert on the sex life of gorillas so can't adjudicate between them.
(Frankly, I have never been able to interest a gorilla of either gender.)

But I do find ShannonH's suggestion compelling.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

^^^^^
This post doesn't quite say what I want it to say.
Can't nail it.
I'm a little too distracted.

 

[MrRamme]

It's the practical answer that is always given. Well here's a question guys, does face matter?, or breasts matter? or cute ass matter?. I'm gonna cum eventually either way so I guess no, but I know what I'd rather see.

 

[1kmb1]

Well, ShannonH gave an explanation according to which size would matter, but it has nothing to do with females preferring large penises.

Here is Shannon's post (in part):


I don't know if that's a true account of what happened, but it makes a lot of sense to me.

Now, your explanation depended on gorilla males doing all the choosing (unless I misconstrue what you're saying ... and perhaps I do), but the Wikipedia article suggests that both males and females do the choosing:

"In multi-male groups, solicitation indicates female preference. However females can be coerced to mate with multiple males."

Note, the article is talking about multi-male groups. For me, the simple meaning is that the groups may be more evenly mixed between males and females and that both genders importune for sex. (The mention of "multiple males" is a clue.)

Your account describes the male team as a pairing of a boss bull and non-breeding sidekick:



If your account is right, then size queen female gorillas can never indulge their preferences. But the Wikipedia article implicitly suggests they should be able to do that.

I am not an expert on the sex life of gorillas so can't adjudicate between them.
(Frankly, I have never been able to interest a gorilla of either gender.)

But I do find ShannonH's suggestion compelling.

no, it doesnt. it states:

In multi-male groups, solicitation indicates female preference. However females can be coerced to mate with multiple males.

the can prefer another male, but if they dont choose the big boss gorilla, they get the big boss gorilla anyway.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

a female can prefer another male, but if they dont choose the big boss gorilla, they get the big boss gorilla anyway.

I don't find that in the Wikipedia quote.

When it says "Females incite copulation by pursing their lips and slowly approaching a male while establishing prolonged eye contact. If the male does not respond, then she will try to attract his attention by reaching towards him or slapping the ground," I can only assume that if the male does respond, they copulate. After all, this is about the female "inciting copulation." Do you have grounds to say this is not the case?

It goes on to say, "In multi-male groups, solicitation indicates female preference." A rather obvious point, I suppose, but why would the article mention this if there is no copulation?

And then this: "However females can be coerced to mate with multiple males."

This at the very least would mean that it is not only the big boss who dips his wick. But there's not even any mention of the big boss ... so I have to wonder if there are not acts of copulation in which he is not a participant at all.

Your notion may be correct, but the Wikipedia article, at least in my reading, does not support it.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

Here is an article that gives a bit more info. (I am quoting the synopsis and bolding some relevant phrases.):

Although mountain gorillas, Gorilla gorilla beringei, are classified as having a one-male mating system, approximately 40% of the social units are multimale groups. I observed two multimale groups of mountain gorillas at the Karisoke Research Center, Rwanda, Africa, for 17 months to determine male mating patterns and male–male mating harassment in relation to both male dominance rank and female reproductive status. Dominant males mated significantly more than did individual subordinate males, and dominant males mated more with cycling adult and pregnant females. The dominant males participated in 47 and 83% of observed matings in the two groups. Subordinate males were more likely than dominant males to mate with subadult females. Eleven of 14 females were observed to mate with more than one male, and multiple males mated with three of the five females observed at the probable time of conception. Mating harassment was initiated and received by both dominant and subordinate males. Mating harassment occurred infrequently (during 30 and 22% of matings in each group), usually consisted of mild aggression, and usually terminated copulations by subordinate males, but not those by dominant males. These results suggest that multimale mountain gorilla groups can be favourable environments for subordinate males to obtain mating opportunities. Dominant males may be unable or unwilling to prevent subordinate males from mating. Based on behavioural observations, mountain gorillas can have a multimale mating system but further research on the role of females in male mating success and paternity determination is needed to understand fully this species’ mating system.

Source: Male mating patterns in wild multimale mountain gorilla groups by Martha M. Robbins, Department of Zoology, University of Wisconsin–Madison
(Received 25 August 1998; initial acceptance 25 August 1998;final acceptance 3 December 1998; MS. number: A7827R)

You see that the subordinate males do have sex, and that the dominant male is not involved in every act of mating.

 

[martin60018]

this is really a fun article here. For gay males penis size really does make a big difference. Gay males want a very large penis to play with. It's the same as a straight man wanting to have a girl with very large tits or a big booty. For females this is a totally different story. All they want is a very big bank account. They don't care how large your cock is, only how large the bank account. this is totally true for you nonbelievers out there have you ever seen a female get married to a good-looking poor man? But have you ever seen a very good-looking woman get married to a very ugly man with a lot of money? For all you straight men out there worried about your penis size, don't stress over it. Sell pictures of it, or make porn and sell it. Because at the end of the day females only want your money date don't care how you get it they just want money. For all you gay men out there if you don't have a large penis you should be stressing over it. Use all your money to get a large penis. Otherwise you may have a hard time finding another gay man. I'm gay I know.

 

[ShannonH]

Wow, that's really misogynistic. Women and men will all date for various reasons. Just because there are some gold diggers out there doesn't mean you can apply that to all women.

Men and women share this, but more often I find women really go for confidence. It's cliche to say for a reason. A lot of women would be turned off by a guy who's constantly complaining about his failures, how inadequate he is in bed for whatever reason, or how unattractive he is. There are plenty of pursuits that project confidence and people find very attractive, even if the guy's not very rich or attractive. Some go crazy for a tattooed up biker type, others for a musician, a professor, etc. It's not surprising that fortune 500 CEOs would carry themselves with a lot of confidence either.

this is really a fun article here. For gay males penis size really does make a big difference. Gay males want a very large penis to play with. It's the same as a straight man wanting to have a girl with very large tits or a big booty. For females this is a totally different story. All they want is a very big bank account. They don't care how large your cock is, only how large the bank account. this is totally true for you nonbelievers out there have you ever seen a female get married to a good-looking poor man? But have you ever seen a very good-looking woman get married to a very ugly man with a lot of money? For all you straight men out there worried about your penis size, don't stress over it. Sell pictures of it, or make porn and sell it. Because at the end of the day females only want your money date don't care how you get it they just want money. For all you gay men out there if you don't have a large penis you should be stressing over it. Use all your money to get a large penis. Otherwise you may have a hard time finding another gay man. I'm gay I know.