Penn & Teller Bullshit debunks circumcision

[Freddie53]

Originally posted by Pecker+Apr 11 2005, 06:31 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pecker &#064; Apr 11 2005, 06:31 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-tightfit@Apr 11 2005, 05:03 AM
If you... can deal with Republican bigotry etc. etc.

[post=299522]Quoted post[/post]​

Looks like prejudice isn&#39;t confined to the color of one&#39;s skin.

[post=299538]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]
I realize that circumcision is very volatiled politically. I am circumcized as in my other brother. Theu removed almost all his foreskin. When I was born, my mother instistied on a minimal about. So at times at don&#39;t look cut.

I gave the same instructions to the doctprswhen my sons were circumcised. I insisted that just a litle but cut but not enouugh that the foreskin didn&#39;t cover the head when the penis was in a flaccid state. Too much removeval of foreskin can definitely cause problems. Buit at the tme my boys were circumcized, I as explain all the advantages to it and how there would be less diseases etc.

My problem that I didn&#39;t understand as a young man was that this procedure is done with out any pain killer. It has got to be a very painful and traumatic for a baby in the world for less than three daysl I worry about the emotional trauma that this procedure has on the boy.

 

[madame_zora]

Originally posted by tightfit+Apr 11 2005, 11:23 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tightfit &#064; Apr 11 2005, 11:23 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-madame_zora@Apr 11 2005, 11:03 AM
Tightfit, I couldn&#39;t agree with you more. BTW, I have always wondered how England fares on racial issues, is there any prejudice there? I&#39;ve never been outside the airport, and I wonder what the differences in things like taxes, healthcare, racism and the like compare to the US.

[post=299533]Quoted post[/post]​

In most countries you will get pockets of racism and, yes, there is racism in the UK but it tends to be in isolated &#39;pockets&#39;. Since the World Trade Centre attack there has been a rise in anti muslim feelings but it is not &#39;embedded&#39; in our society.
As for taxes - they are sky high.
Healthcare is, on the whole, good but the National Health Service is straining somewhat with the increase in the number of older people.
In general, the UK tends to have less &#39;extremes&#39; than in the USA.
The UK does, most definately, have its downside but it also has its upside.
Tightfit.
P.S. I feel very honoured to have been asked this by the venerable Madame Zora&#33;
(touches forelock in deference)

[post=299535]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]


Well, obviously I have very little to offer on opinions about circumcision, but I do think it&#39;s best left for the boy to decide for himself when he reaches the age of majority. Here again, Americans think we&#39;re so superior to everyone else, it&#39;s starting to make me sick.

Tightfit, I appreciate your answers and would like to continue this conversation if I may pm you? I&#39;ve spent very little time in the UK and a small amount in Europe, but I was looking at the political/social climate there at the time. Since the 2004 debaucle (I won&#39;t call it an election) I have been seriously contemplating seeking residence elsewhere.

Dr. Rock, your view of America is more pleasant than mine, but I guess the grass is always greener... I find racism hard to ignore when I have white dudes with torches in my front yard chanting "Nigger go home"- yes, this happened in 1999 in Parkersburg, WV&#33; I&#39;m not even African and I&#39;ve been called "nigger" more times than I care to remember, I can deeply empathise with what many people of other national origins must endure on a more frequent basis. I am of the belief that while the UK may have pockets of racists, they are likely to be less violent and threatening about it. America has become the land of exremeists, and those are very scary people.

 

[Sabln7]

Originally posted by madame_zora+Apr 11 2005, 05:23 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(madame_zora &#064; Apr 11 2005, 05:23 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Originally posted by tightfit@Apr 11 2005, 11:23 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-madame_zora

@Apr 11 2005, 11:03 AM
Tightfit, I couldn&#39;t agree with you more. BTW, I have always wondered how England fares on racial issues, is there any prejudice there? I&#39;ve never been outside the airport, and I wonder what the differences in things like taxes, healthcare, racism and the like compare to the US.

[post=299533]Quoted post[/post]​

In most countries you will get pockets of racism and, yes, there is racism in the UK but it tends to be in isolated &#39;pockets&#39;. Since the World Trade Centre attack there has been a rise in anti muslim feelings but it is not &#39;embedded&#39; in our society.
As for taxes - they are sky high.
Healthcare is, on the whole, good but the National Health Service is straining somewhat with the increase in the number of older people.
In general, the UK tends to have less &#39;extremes&#39; than in the USA.
The UK does, most definately, have its downside but it also has its upside.
Tightfit.
P.S. I feel very honoured to have been asked this by the venerable Madame Zora&#33;
(touches forelock in deference)

[post=299535]Quoted post[/post]​

Well, obviously I have very little to offer on opinions about circumcision, but I do think it&#39;s best left for the boy to decide for himself when he reaches the age of majority. Here again, Americans think we&#39;re so superior to everyone else, it&#39;s starting to make me sick.

Tightfit, I appreciate your answers and would like to continue this conversation if I may pm you? I&#39;ve spent very little time in the UK and a small amount in Europe, but I was looking at the political/social climate there at the time. Since the 2004 debaucle (I won&#39;t call it an election) I have been seriously contemplating seeking residence elsewhere.

Dr. Rock, your view of America is more pleasant than mine, but I guess the grass is always greener... I find racism hard to ignore when I have white dudes with torches in my front yard chanting "Nigger go home"- yes, this happened in 1999 in Parkersburg, WV&#33; I&#39;m not even African and I&#39;ve been called "nigger" more times than I care to remember, I can deeply empathise with what many people of other national origins must endure on a more frequent basis. I am of the belief that while the UK may have pockets of racists, they are likely to be less violent and threatening about it. America has become the land of exremeists, and those are very scary people.

[post=299600]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

I agree. The current extremism has made me consider moving elsewhere. I am terrified abou the future of our country. It may be the best place to live right now, but policies that are extreme will not assure us that in the future.

 

[Sabln7]

Originally posted by ChimeraTX+Apr 11 2005, 05:41 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ChimeraTX &#064; Apr 11 2005, 05:41 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-madame_zora@Apr 11 2005, 12:23 PM
America has become the land of exremeists, and those are very scary people.

[post=299600]Quoted post[/post]​

Compared to who? Europe is a breeding ground for outrageous far-left ideologies. I wonder if you consider marxism, communism, and socialism forms of extremism. Does the word extremism only get applied to far-right ideologies?

[post=299604]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

Read my post earlier in this thread. Extremism on either end of the political spectrum is frightening. America desperately needs moderates in control--if we can find any.

 

[Dr. Dilznick]

Originally posted by madame_zora
Dr. Rock, your view of America is more pleasant than mine, but I guess the grass is always greener... I find racism hard to ignore when I have white dudes with torches in my front yard chanting "Nigger go home"- yes, this happened in 1999 in Parkersburg, WV&#33; I&#39;m not even African and I&#39;ve been called "nigger" more times than I care to remember, I can deeply empathise with what many people of other national origins must endure on a more frequent basis. I am of the belief that while the UK may have pockets of racists, they are likely to be less violent and threatening about it.

[post=299600]Quoted post[/post]​

Based on my experiences, I&#39;d say your assumptions are correct. Except in Britain, it isn&#39;t just limited to isolated pockets of racism. No matter what any white person says.

 

[surferboy]

I wish I wasn&#39;t cut when I was younger. Lately, I&#39;ve been looking into foreskin restoration.

 

[madame_zora]

Originally posted by ChimeraTX+Apr 11 2005, 05:41 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ChimeraTX &#064; Apr 11 2005, 05:41 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-madame_zora@Apr 11 2005, 12:23 PM
America has become the land of exremeists, and those are very scary people.

[post=299600]Quoted post[/post]​

Compared to who? Europe is a breeding ground for outrageous far-left ideologies. I wonder if you consider marxism, communism, and socialism forms of extremism. Does the word extremism only get applied to far-right ideologies?

[post=299604]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]


Gee Chimera, is that the best you can do? Do you see Marxists and Socialists bombing abortion clinics? Threatening the safety of Americans? Burning torches in people&#39;s front yards? NO&#33; They might be picketing, writing books and the like, but I haven&#39;t heard of a violent demonstration of Socialists in our country in ages&#33; Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the KKK are still mutilating and killing, the right-wingers (Pro-lifers, HA&#33 are bombing abortion clinics, Gays are being beat up in the street by homophobes and "god fearing" people, we are at war with people who we formerly had friendly relations with simply because we want to control the flow of oil. Yes, I think right wing extremists are more dangerous at the present time. They are far more large-scale and organised. Show me examples of widespread violence being committed by the leftists and I&#39;ll be glad to listen, only make sure it&#39;s not ancient history&#33; Extremists in opinion are very different from extremists who feel free to carry out their messages of hatred. I might hate some of the things the Republican party stands for, but would NEVER consider using an act of violence against them to make my point. It is my view that when this line is crossed, extremism becomes dangerous. It&#39;s most ly a battle of the brain vs. braun. Brute strength will win out in the short term, but eventually I believe in the power of love to heal all the wounds we are creating. This war we are in brings shame upon us all.

 

[surferboy]

Originally posted by ChimeraTX+Apr 11 2005, 01:20 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ChimeraTX &#064; Apr 11 2005, 01:20 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-surferboy@Apr 11 2005, 01:15 PM
I wish I wasn&#39;t cut when I was younger. Lately, I&#39;ve been looking into foreskin restoration.

[post=299614]Quoted post[/post]​

I didn&#39;t know that was possible. How does it work?

[post=299615]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]


So far I&#39;ve found two methods. One is a stretching method. Well, many stretching methods. The other is through surgery. I&#39;m gonna go for whichever looks more natural. They also say you get a lot, but not all, of the feeling back in yer head.

 

[Dr. Dilznick]

Originally posted by ChimeraTX+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ChimeraTX)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Dr. Dilznick
Based on my experiences, I&#39;d say your assumptions are correct. Except in Britain, it isn&#39;t just limited to isolated pockets of racism. No matter what any white person says.

[post=299611]Quoted post[/post]​

It isn&#39;t hard at all to explain once you see that anywhere where two populations coexist racism and xenophobia is a problem.

[post=299612]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]
No argument there.

 

[madame_zora]

Bullshit&#33; They aren&#39;t violent to begin with.

 

[summertime01]

I would love to practice in another country other than the USA. Preventive care is taught & respected more & more regards for the consumer/citizen in many respects.

 

[madame_zora]

Originally posted by ChimeraTX+Apr 11 2005, 06:48 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ChimeraTX &#064; Apr 11 2005, 06:48 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-madame_zora@Apr 11 2005, 01:38 PM
Bullshit&#33; They aren&#39;t violent to begin with.

[post=299623]Quoted post[/post]​

Who aren&#39;t? Left-wingers? I am sure you have been acquainted with the phenomena known as "communism"?

[post=299627]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]


Like I said, it&#39;s been over since the 80&#39;s and when was it ever violent here? You are proving my point.

 

[summertime01]

Just so you know, more & more insurance companies are refusing to pay for this. The American Academy or Pediatrics has declared circ. as unnecessary surgery for many, many years now. Many childbirth educators & maternity care providers (eps. if they&#39;re not physicians) are providing more education regarding circ. and ways to give & teahc care of uncir. to their sons.

 

[madame_zora]

Originally posted by ChimeraTX+Apr 11 2005, 06:56 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ChimeraTX &#064; Apr 11 2005, 06:56 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Originally posted by madame_zora@Apr 11 2005, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by ChimeraTX@Apr 11 2005, 06:48 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-madame_zora

@Apr 11 2005, 01:38 PM
Bullshit&#33; They aren&#39;t violent to begin with.

[post=299623]Quoted post[/post]​

Who aren&#39;t? Left-wingers? I am sure you have been acquainted with the phenomena known as "communism"?

[post=299627]Quoted post[/post]​

Like I said, it&#39;s been over since the 80&#39;s and when was it ever violent here? You are proving my point.

[post=299629]Quoted post[/post]​

Why does it matter if it was violent here or not? It is a violent far-left ideology, so your statement was incorrect. Or do you want to tell me communism (when practiced) isn&#39;t violent?

[post=299631]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]


No, I want you to tell me what the hell you&#39;re talking about&#33; I was saying how right wing extremists in this country are making me want to look into living elsewhere, because THIS country is getting more and more backward and dangerous. What the fuck are YOU talking about with communism? Are you really asserting that communism is a problem for us here, or ever was? It sure sounds to me like you&#39;re just trying pathetically to change the conversation to one where you have a chance of winning. Playing for points is stupid and a waste of time, I won&#39;t do it.

I&#39;ll repeat, the leftists in this country are not violent, by and large, so I do feel it is the right-wingers who pose the greatest threat. They are the ones who want to legislate other people&#39;s morality, they are the ones who have engaged us in an unjust war. I wish to separate myself from all this horrendous garbage, it violates my sense of decency. If the best you can do is bring up communism, clearly you have nothing to say about reality.

 

[surferboy]

Originally posted by summertime@Apr 11 2005, 02:08 PM
Just so you know, more & more insurance companies are refusing to pay for this. The American Academy or Pediatrics has declared circ. as unnecessary surgery for many, many years now. Many childbirth educators & maternity care providers (eps. if they&#39;re not physicians) are providing more education regarding circ. and ways to give & teahc care of uncir. to their sons.

[post=299634]Quoted post[/post]​

I read that the reason secular circumsizion became popular was because in the late 1800s, the promised it would help curb children from jerking off. Yah, if being cut is supposed to curb masturbation, I wonder how much I&#39;d be jerking off if I was never cut

 

[madame_zora]

We aren&#39;t having a debate, you are just saying idiotic things that have nothing to do with what I&#39;m saying for a purpose I can&#39;t determine. You never EVER answer any of the real questions I ask you in any of our debates, which is why I dislike debating (?) you.

 

[madame_zora]

Originally posted by ChimeraTX+Apr 11 2005, 07:22 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ChimeraTX &#064; Apr 11 2005, 07:22 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-madame_zora@Apr 11 2005, 02:08 PM
No, I want you to tell me what the hell you&#39;re talking about&#33; I was saying how right wing extremists in this country are making me want to look into living elsewhere, because THIS country is getting more and more backward and dangerous. What the fuck are YOU talking about with communism? Are you really asserting that communism is a problem for us here, or ever was? It sure sounds to me like you&#39;re just trying pathetically to change the conversation to one where you have a chance of winning. Playing for points is stupid and a waste of time, I won&#39;t do it.

I&#39;ll repeat, the leftists in this country are not violent, by and large, so I do feel it is the right-wingers who pose the greatest threat. They are the ones who want to legislate other people&#39;s morality, they are the ones who have engaged us in an unjust war. I wish to separate myself from all this horrendous garbage, it violates my sense of decency. If the best you can do is bring up communism, clearly you have nothing to say about reality.

[post=299635]Quoted post[/post]​

What are you so angry about?

You said that far-left people are non-violent. I said they would be violent if they were being marginalized, like the far-right is currently being done. I said that an example of the violent far-left (after marginalization) is communism.

If all you can do is try to intimidate me into agreeing with you, then we shouldn&#39;t be having a debate anyway.

[post=299640]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]



Oh yeah, and once again, you failed to answer one single point I made in the highlighted quote. If I am angry, it&#39;s because you regularly ignore my words and answer a different arguement. That&#39;s manipulation, not debate.

 

[13788]

carolinacurious: Chimera,

Two things:

First I would like to know how the "right" is being "marginalized" when they are currently RUNNING EVERYTHING&#33; (right straight into the fucking ground&#33

If I don&#39;t agree 100% with George Bush and his &#39;Amerika Uber Alles&#39; plan then I&#39;m a dissenter? I&#39;m a terrorist? I&#39;m either with him or the terrorists?(&#33 and yet somehow the right is being "marginalized" (this is how it&#39;s done kiddo, you keep accumulating more and more power all the while telling your followers that those nasty Jews are still coming for them&#33;, the quickest way to unite a group of people is to convince them that they are all victims of the same aggressor.)


Second: I would like to know exactly where in &#39;Das Capital&#39; it says anything about Stalin murdering 40 million of his own people? Can you come up with anything about the Soviet Union that was actually Communistic except for the name.

I&#39;d like you to show me some examples of violent "Communist" societies where "communist" has more meaning than simply a synonym for "people we want to kill".
(Wow, sorta like "terrorist". hmmmm.)

 

[Sabln7]

Originally posted by ChimeraTX+Apr 11 2005, 08:34 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ChimeraTX &#064; Apr 11 2005, 08:34 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-carolinacurious@Apr 11 2005, 03:14 PM
Chimera,

Two things:

First I would like to know how the "right" is being "marginalized" when they are currently RUNNING EVERYTHING&#33; (right straight into the fucking ground&#33

If I don&#39;t agree 100% with George Bush and his &#39;Amerika Uber Alles&#39; plan then I&#39;m a dissenter? I&#39;m a terrorist? I&#39;m either with him or the terrorists?(&#33 and yet somehow the right is being "marginalized" (this is how it&#39;s done kiddo, you keep accumulating more and more power all the while telling your followers that those nasty Jews are still coming for them&#33;, the quickest way to unite a group of people is to convince them that they are all victims of the same aggressor.)


Second: I would like to know exactly where in &#39;Das Capital&#39; it says anything about Stalin murdering 40 million of his own people? Can you come up with anything about the Soviet Union that was actually Communistic except for the name.

I&#39;d like you to show me some examples of violent "Communist" societies where "communist" has more meaning than simply a synonym for "people we want to kill".
(Wow, sorta like "terrorist". hmmmm.)

[post=299656]Quoted post[/post]​

Since you have decided to make me into a strawman I will do the same to you, carolinacurious.

[post=299663]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

Sorry that this has gone like it has. The far right is NOT marginalized, in fact, it is in control. The far left IS marginalized without being violent. Jesus and his disciples preached and lived pure communisim. Communism as a theory is non-violent and equitable. As practiced in Russia and other countries, it was not pure. The word and its definition have been confused with the word and its connotation.

 

[madame_zora]

Originally posted by ChimeraTX+Apr 11 2005, 08:28 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ChimeraTX &#064; Apr 11 2005, 08:28 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-madame_zora@Apr 11 2005, 03:12 PM
Oh yeah, and once again, you failed to answer one single point I made in the highlighted quote. If I am angry, it&#39;s because you regularly ignore my words and answer a different arguement. That&#39;s manipulation, not debate.

[post=299654]Quoted post[/post]​

You keep telling me that, but you won&#39;t say which supposed points I am not answering.

[post=299662]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]


That&#39;s because you display enough intelligence to read. I did highlight it again for you to make it easier. I shouldn&#39;t have to reiterate something already in print. You are being willfully stupid.