Penn & Teller Circumcision

[hackalive]

So did they end up circumcising their baby or not?

 

[cocktaste]

Circumcision needs to be outlawed! It's a barbaric practice, and there are NO benefits. It's all a crock of shit!

 

[Snozzle]

If you delay the circumcision until adulthood, the benefits are largely obviated. While adult circumcision can be corrective for phimosis

Phimosis is quite obvious and quite rare, and so can be treated as it occurs, by non-surgical means, surgical means, or circumcision as a last resort. It is also greatly overdiagnosed (it is normal in children) and over-pathologised. There are many men - probably some here - who are happily phimotic and perfectly healthy.

and may reduce STD transmission,

There are as many studies showing no benefit in STD transmission as studies showing benefit.

the reduction in the risk of penile cancer is significant only if the foreskin is removed early on.

The study that makes that claim is now very old, and the claim really makes no sense, when penile cancer rarely strikes until a man is really old. (But don't you think it's just a little, um, convenient, that here's a reason circumcision has to be done before the child can object to it or resist?) Penile cancer strikes so rarely - less than one man in 1000 lifelong - it's hard to get good figures, circumcised or not.

 

[Snozzle]

I'd like to see them take on ritual scarring of skin done by other cultures.

It's awfully one-sided to go after people who circumcise and not any of the other cultures that demand body modification as payment for tribe entrance.

They could leave out all reference to circumcision as payment for tribe entrance (unless you consider USA citizens to be a tribe) and the programme would be very little different.

 

[hackalive]

my kid would never get circumcised, if he wants to when hes older his choice, but im not getting it done to him when hes younger.

 

[truthseeker]

I wonder if Kellogg's brand cereals still help profit/fund circumcisions?

 

[JTalbain]

How nice for you.

You have no idea why I call myself that. You assume you know why, but you don't know.

It made me lol too. I appreciate the irony.

 

[eurotop40]

I wonder if Kellogg's brand cereals still help profit/fund circumcisions?

That's the reason I have stopped eating corn flakes at breakfast.

 

[B_Nicodemous]

I had phimosis as a child/young adolestent, and it was corrected via non surgical means.

I like how everyone always climbs aboard the "it decreases the risk of penile cancer" as if penile cancer were that prevalent. As you say it mostly hits older men and is about 1 in 1000 to 1 in 100,000. Compare that to testicular cancer which, in the US, has a rate of 1 in 250 and is common in men 15-40 years old. Yet we never hear ANYONE arguing that we should be castrated as a means of prevention. Lol:tongue:

Phimosis is quite obvious and quite rare, and so can be treated as it occurs, by non-surgical means, surgical means, or circumcision as a last resort. It is also greatly overdiagnosed (it is normal in children) and over-pathologised. There are many men - probably some here - who are happily phimotic and perfectly healthy. There are as many studies showing no benefit in STD transmission as studies showing benefit. The study that makes that claim is now very old, and the claim really makes no sense, when penile cancer rarely strikes until a man is really old. (But don't you think it's just a little, um, convenient, that here's a reason circumcision has to be done before the child can object to it or resist?) Penile cancer strikes so rarely - less than one man in 1000 lifelong - it's hard to get good figures, circumcised or not.

 

[JTalbain]

Just got to watch the full episode online. Not their strongest episode, but I don't know if they had time to really talk about all the specifics. They kinda got generic nobodies from both sides for this one. They got the basics right, though.

 

[B_Lightkeeper]

I thought Penn & Teller were magicians?

 

[1kmb1]

I thought Penn & Teller were magicians?

they're also comedians.

i love bullshit, too bad i dont have showtime anymore

 

[Snozzle]

I like how everyone always climbs aboard the "it decreases the risk of penile cancer" as if penile cancer were that prevalent. As you say it mostly hits older men and is about 1 in 1000 to 1 in 100,000.

Both figures are roughly correct but they are different figures. The 1 in 1000 is the lifetime risk (Cold, Storms and Van Howe quote 1 in 1965 in Denmark, where circumcision is almost unknown, vs 1438 in the US) while 1 in 100,000 is the annual risk, but that's misleading because it's much less in youth than old age.

Yes, penile cancer is trotted out far more than its risk deserves. This is called "shroud-waving". People hear "cancer" and stop thinking.

 

[patrick9999]

How anyone/group can justify that practice almost escapes me but I've come to realize that humans have the ability to inflict some pretty nasty treatment on others without remorse.

Whatever the risks...they should be mine to take.