Personal sexual preferences are a private matter

[fortiesfun]

though there is a <unfortuneately slowly>growing contingency of Christians who reject the traditional anti-gay interpretations of the Bible, have reconciled their faith with it directly, and have concluded that the traditional "clobber passages" that seemingly denounce homosexuality don't actually denounce it at all...

Vinny's point is very much still the most important one in this thread from the perspective of the original poster.

It IS very difficult to leave a church if it is not just a place to profess a belief system, but it has also been your social home and the center of the community to which you belonged in a secular sense also. Many of us have chosen to do so along the way, for the very reasons often explicated throughout this thread. I would suggest that exhotations to leave the church and make a personal relationship with God overlook the need to have a social and community home for many people. Spirituality is the most important thing, but we overlook the need of many to be in communion with others in worship.

That is why I think Vinny's point that there are welcoming churches, that have moved past old interpretations of sexuality-based passages and seek to minister to current, diverse, congregations. I suspect replacing the old community with a new one would greatly ease the pain of leaving a place where you have deep roots, even if it has become an uncomfortable place. At least, that is how it worked for me.

 

[Nelly Gay]

This has been on my mind for a while.
I am a Christian. I go to Church. And, as a Christian in a conservative church, both gay and bisexuality is frowned on to the extent of excommunication.

Now, I didn't choose to be bisexual. I really didn't. As a conservative Christian it would have been a hell of a lot more convenient for me to be a "regular" hetero guy. I mean, it would have served my purposes and wishes so much more and life would have been SO much easier if that were the case.

But it isn't. So now that I've been through more than one marriage, and have had the honor of raising incredible kids, I still want my Christian identity, despite surviving the rumor mill, threats to remove me from the church, and so forth. Underlying all this is one feeling I have:

My sexuality is NOBODY'S business. As far as I know, no one goes around harrassing hetero couples about THEIR sexuality, and asking perverted questions, implying [wink, wink] that I'm "attracted to that guy over there," and on and on. I wouldn't ever think of saying to any of the women I know that they appear to be built to handle specific sexual positions well, or that they must have a ravenous libido, or that THEY must be attracted "to that guy over there."

So why is it okay for otherwise "good" Christians to do this to people they consider "bad" Christians. How is this qualifying them as a disciple of Christ?

Granted there is a lot about religion in here. I realize that may be a hot button since we've got every kind of believer and non-believer on the planet here. But I'm okay with God and he's okay with me.

So, am I the only one who thinks that GENERALLY, sexuality should NOT be anyone else's business in social, or "polite" company? I feel my sexuality is no one's damned business.

Just curious about other people's take on this whether religious or not.

thin q. Thin q, mary vuch.
:smile:

I cannot understand why you have committed yourself to a religion that tries so hard to make you feel bad about yourself and your lifestyle.
People are deserting the churches in droves for the very same reasons.
Surely if God (or whoever) created you , He created you as you ought to be ?

 

[D_Sheffield Thongbynder]

Nelly Gay,
A friend of mine raised in the Catholic church went to seminary to become a priest, then dropped out when he realized that he couldn't be celibate (and he's gay). Consumed with guilt, he dropped out of the church altogether, but every time he drove by a Catholic church, he felt a strong urge to worship there. After ten years of this, he finally rejoined the church. He still feels the guilt generated by the church but thinks it more important to worship in the very place that condemns him than give up his religion. Illogical? Certainly. Matters of sprituality don't necessarily follow the laws of logic.

 

[SilverSoldier]

Nearly all the contributions to this thread are honest, intelligent and thought provoking. Thanks, people. Sometimes I come here just to get a [slightly] more sane view of reality.

I will never believe that if there is a God, that he would be willing to redeem only a portion of humanity. So far, I still go to Church for reasons already described before. I have chosen this life, and its consequences. Leaving would create some cataclismic consequences as well. I haven't resigned myself to what is going on, really. I'm active in many areas of society and in contributing to more than one church. But the patterns in any church are about the same. There are ultra-"righteous" who seem to hate the "unrighteous" and heathen, and non-Christians. I find it woeful. If "sins" had an odor, what would theirs smell like?

Just wanted mostly to say thanks to you. Overall, I'm doing well in life. I've freed myself of a lot of toxic relationships and am feeling good about my future, and much more at peace with God than I ever have before.

Thanks for your comments.

 

[headbang8]

Nearly all the contributions to this thread are honest, intelligent and thought provoking. Thanks, people. Sometimes I come here just to get a [slightly] more sane view of reality.

I will never believe that if there is a God, that he would be willing to redeem only a portion of humanity. So far, I still go to Church for reasons already described before. I have chosen this life, and its consequences. Leaving would create some cataclismic consequences as well. I haven't resigned myself to what is going on, really. I'm active in many areas of society and in contributing to more than one church. But the patterns in any church are about the same. There are ultra-"righteous" who seem to hate the "unrighteous" and heathen, and non-Christians. I find it woeful. If "sins" had an odor, what would theirs smell like?

Just wanted mostly to say thanks to you. Overall, I'm doing well in life. I've freed myself of a lot of toxic relationships and am feeling good about my future, and much more at peace with God than I ever have before.

Thanks for your comments.

SS, very happy to hear such a stable and mature take on matters of the spirit. And I'm sorry if my previous remarks seemed dismissive.

To echo one of the previous posters, I, too, often pass a Catholic church--the church of my youth-- and recognise the joy and peace of a congregation at one in spiritual fellowship. And I have the urge to be part of it. It's happy, positive, and uplifting. What's not to like?

Then I remember the downsides of Catholicism. They're notorious.

So, I seek spiritual fellowship in other places. The Gay and Lesbian Community Centre in downtown NYC is one such place. Al-Anon is another. The company of family and friends is another. And the grace I get from them all is just as sacred as that from formal religion. There's (small-g) god in every soul, and communion with people is a far more effective path to a state of grace than many--indeed, all--churches I've ever attended. And yes, sexual communion with others has been an occasional, but important part of achieving that state of grace.

Of course, in modern America, that means I need to call myself an atheist. So be it.

Peace to you.

HB8

 

[cyrushkcurtis]

If I were you I believe that I would be more comfortable in a more liberal church -- one of the "mainline" churches: Episcopal, United Methodist, Presbyterian USA, American Baptist, etc. Their congregations are much more inclusive. Though you need to remember that there are conservative congregations even among these denominations.

 

[ChocolateLuvuh]

All I got to say is don't confuse religion with a relationship with God. God knows your heart and most morality rules are just man's interpretation of the Bible.

 

[B_Spladle]

This has been on my mind for a while.
I am a Christian

I stopped reading here.

 

[mgtihlah]

This has been on my mind for a while.
My sexuality is NOBODY'S business.

Well, it is God's business, since you're Christian. However, that being said....

So why is it okay for otherwise "good" Christians to do this to people they consider "bad" Christians. How is this qualifying them as a disciple of Christ?....So, am I the only one who thinks that GENERALLY, sexuality should NOT be anyone else's business in social, or "polite" company? I feel my sexuality is no one's damned business.

Well, being a bit more religious guy myself, I found that in my life I've had the best success shutting up sanctimonious, self-serving, hypocritical Christians using this method: Know your Scripture. For instance, gossip is frowned upon by God (biblegateway.com is a GREAT resource for looking things up, btw). Of course, in your circumstance, it's sounds like they're also saying it directly TO you, so in that case, you could go the Romans 14 route. Ask them why they would ask such things of you (like if another guy is hot), if we are commanded by Paul to not cause other fellow believers to stumble?

And one of the best ones is this: John 8. In the beginning of that chapter, a prostitute who clearly committed adultery was to be stoned, yet Christ said to those trying to trap him, "He who has not sinned, cast the first stone" (admittedly, early manuscripts do not contain this section, but most Christians don't know that anyway, so you can use it without fear of being harassed on this point). Point being - THEY have sinned too. Even if you are not sure if your feelings are sin or not - ALL have sinned, and you can gently (or forcefully) remind them that they are sinners, too. As you said in your original post, you're ok with it, and God's ok with you. That should be enough. :wink:

I realize some on here have said, "Go to another church." Having left two churches that I had felt very strongly about going to, I know personally it is not that simple. There ARE good people at most churches. There are also very divisive people, too. There are no perfect churches, as they are made up of imperfect people. That said, those that have never been to one will not understand that it is akin to ripping your heart out to leave, and you mentioning excommunication leads me to believe you're of a Catholic persuasion (though I may be wrong), in which case it is even less of a simple matter to just "up and leave". It's hard to do. I've been there - it's not fun, but all in all, it did not shake my faith, because I kept God close, and kept reading my Bible.

Best thing I can say is: Read your Bible, dude. (NIV, NLT and The Message are all good versions, each with faults, but each with excellent strengths, too). It's your best defense against those that would taunt you, want you to fall, enjoy seeing your failure (Christian or not), and even better, you'll get closer to God as a result. Hope that helps, and hang in there bro - not all Christians treat others as you've been mistreated. :smile:

 

[Charles Finn]

all i can add is
judge not lest you be judged by the same measures you judge others by.

 

[jfrsndvs]

I will admit that on many issues, I am more conservative than liberal, but when it comes to the church, I am not a fan of organized religion, some of things they come up with is a bit off the wall and too far out there.

if I were you, I would choose a different church to attend, I was raised a southern baptist, I certainly don't agree with all their teachings, in thier eyes I would definately be rotting in hell, so I reckon that's why it's so damn hot outside (106°), hell I drink, smoke, cuss, had sex before marriage, had sex after marriage, and the list goes on.

I have faith in God and Jesus Christ, and I do pray, I just don't attend a church where people like to judge everyone around them and not themselves, and so many of them like to use church as a place to make an appearance and put on one of thier phoney shows ot make themselves look good. I don't care what side of the political spectrum they are on, they are all the same.

to sum it up, choose a different church or don't attend a church or you will be the same as they are.

 

[Desmond_decker]

Started with "
"This has been on my mind for a while.
I am a Christian. I go to Church. And, as a Christian in a conservative church, both gay and bisexuality is frowned on to the extent of excommunication."


There are a many statement of Jesus' that admonishes us for violence, yet how many conservative churches threaten excommunication for joining
the military or advocating military solutions. Christ let himself be nailed to a cross before he let Peter defend him. Then again he also admonished us for
not treating other groups (ethnic, religious. etc) the way we would to be treated. I really doubt there's be any excommunications for bigotry, maybe sainthood.
After 9/11, few churches mentioned the "turn the other cheek" passage. One President of a Catholic College known to have liberal opinions, suggested that we could forgive, just before she retired. A trivial reading on the Gospels, would let any reader to believed War is anathema to Christianity.

Later the poster said:

"As a conservative Christian it would have been a hell of a lot more convenient for me to be a "regular" hetero guy. I mean, it would have served my purposes and wishes so much more and life would have been SO much easier if that were the case. "

But being who you are is more convenient for a regualar old flawed sinnful Christian. Conservatism is a sham in destroys humanity and free will. What the hell is a conservative Christian mean anyway?

"You better recognized your brother is everyone you met. " - John Lennon

 

[afer10]

First, It has been said before, but i thought i would say it again. The Christian Right is neither Christian nor right.

Second, Christians follow the path of Jesus, not what the pope or any other person has said in his name. Jesus never talked about sexuality, nor was hell EVER mentioned in the bible.

The Old testament does not count, really.