Please help Me Understand...

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Imported, Mar 15, 2005.

  1. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    hung_big: Could someone please help me understand why people contstantly lie? No, I'm not talking necessarily about someone's cock size (that's a masculinity issue); I'm speaking of almost everything that some people say are complete lies.

    Why do people come on this site, come up with ficticous and completely unfathomable stories and fantasies and try to pass them off as real? Who could have such a bad case of self-esteem to need self-assurance from a bunch of people over the internet, that they probably do not and will never know? I love you guys, but really, who needs a stranger's approval?

    I think a person's worth can truely be seen in how much they lie or fib. If someone never tells the truth, how can you see their true personality anyway?

    Rant over; I am not really sure what the point was...just wondering I guess.
     
  2. BobLeeSwagger

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2003
    Messages:
    1,481
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Probably just because they know it will get them attention, even if it is the negative kind.
     
  3. Freddie53

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    7,285
    Likes Received:
    61
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The South, USA
    Hung_big,

    You answered the question yourself. Lack of self-esteem. Men will come on this site and pretend to be what in thier minds they wish they were. They wish for big cock size, lots of admirers, wonderful job and the like. They in their minds often spend hours fantasising this and here is a web site where they can be ther "new" self.

    I am the opposite. You guys here know things about me that my real world does not know. When I came to this forum I received respect for who I am. And my dick barely is over five inches long. And I told that at first and everyone was so supportive. But I don't spout forth such information in the real world.

    Hopefully these guys will come to undestand that good people and we are good people here will go the extra mile to support each other. The forum will give much quicker support to the poster that tells the truth, even if the poster wishes the truth was something different. There is a whole lot more support and respect for people who tell the truth than there is for those who don't regardless what that needed support is.

    Hope this helps, Hung_Big.
    Freddie
     
  4. jonb

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    2
    Lack of self-esteem, combined with a forum where you can say you're Jacques Chirac and no one can say otherwise.
     
  5. Pecker

    Pecker Retired Moderator
    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2002
    Messages:
    83,922
    Likes Received:
    34
    It takes a wise man to handle a lie, a fool had better remain honest.
    (Douglas, Norman 1868-1952 British Author)

    Even a little white lie is still ... a lie.
    (Pecker 1946-____ American Smartaleck)
     
  6. madame_zora

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    10,252
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Ohio
    I hate lies a whole lot, it's the one thing I won't make myself get over. I don't care what a person's issues are that they feel entitle them to be so dismissive to others, but liars are the lowest of the low to me.
     
  7. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    hung_big: I agree Jana...

    I have some SERIOUS issues, especially at the age of 15. But I do lie, I can't say that I never have. There is something as a white lie, for the better good. I don't tell everyone I cut and burn and whatnot, when they ask. They ostrosize me enough, so I give them excuses; fake and false one's at that, but I think that is understandable. I could tell them, but there would be a long line of people trying to help, that really wouldn't and I'd have to justify everything that I have to do. I am already sick of explaining everything to the people I HAVE or CHOSE to tell...and that's only a select few.

    But I don't lie just for the sake of it. I'm myself, and that's it.
     
  8. Freddie53

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    7,285
    Likes Received:
    61
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The South, USA
    In the opening scenes of the Old Testament, Torah if you are Jewish, is the story of a perfect situation. God and his creations, Adam and Eve. There is a perfect garden and all is well. Too well. Wonderfully well. Then, something happens that completely destroys the perfect situation. The serpent comes along with a lie to tell and Adam and Eve fall for it. According to the story, Adam and Eve are removed from this perfect garden and end up as the ancestors of us all who have had to endure much pain and suffering all because of the lie told by the serpent.
    The lie told by the serpent was that Adam and Eve would be just like God in all his splendor and that God didn't want Adam and Eve to know how they would be gods themselves and be just like God if that ate that fruit. According to the story, the serpent was lieing and Adam and Eve didn't become Gods but instead lost the carefree life in a perfect garden and entered a world frieght with evil, sorrow, sickness, death and broken relatiionships.

    Now some believe that to be a literal story. I believe it to be a story inspired by God to show how God wanted it to be and to show how it is. But real or fictional the meaning is the same.

    All that is bad is based on a LIE told by the serpent. The reason that telling a lie appears so bad is because it is the root of most evil. Somewhere in any sinister situation a lie is right in the middle of it. It is hard to find a "bad" situation where there is no hint of a lie, misrepresentation or some nice word for what it is, a lie.

    A lie is used by people to steal your money, rape your child, and convince you to do something that you ordinarily would never do.

    There is a reason to hate a lie. Yet we all do it. And we all can justify the ones we tell. I didn't want to hurt their feelings. It is none of their busienss so I just told them what they wanted to hear. And that list goes on and on.

    If we could all be 100 percent honest and no one tell a lie, this world would be a totally different place.

    And I might add several elected officials would be out of a job come election day. But that is another story.
     
  9. madame_zora

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    10,252
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Ohio

    Chris, sweetheart, you have to know how hard it is for anyone who cares about you to do or feel nothing about you cutting, burning, and whatnot. If you are telling lies and giving fake and false excuses, you are wrong in assuming that it's just to shut people up. All lies are bad, even "little white ones" becuase they hurt the teller. I feel clearly that you are not happy about this part of your life and you don't want to be forced into a place where you will have to examine it. No one can blame you there, but common sense does dictate certain eventualities. Like alcoholism, these behaviors are progressive- it is highly unlikely that it will not increase (as you may well know by now). I don't know if you are seeing anyone professionally about this, but it may not hurt. What it comes down to is that you are doing these things because of some root reasons that you may or may not be conciously aware of, but until the core issues are addressed and dealt with, the outlook for you is not good.

    Self-knowledge is not enough, if it were everyone with sufficient intelligence to know they had a problem of any kind would instantly be cured. Such is certainly not the case! Realising that there is a problem is but the first leg of the journey, you also have to let your mind accept the possibility of change, THEN actually try to do some things differently and experiment until you find a system that works. Identifying your triggers is a huge step in wellness, if that is in fact your goal. I don't want to put words in your mouth, I respect you too much for that.

    Okay, say one of your triggers is loneliness. You find yourself in a situation where you're alone in the house, you're getting ready to meet someone you're anticipating seeing very much, and they back out at the last mintue. No one is there to talk to so you begin your usual ritual of self mutilation. Instead of doing that, you could choose to put on your coat and walk around the outside of your house ten times, then go back inside and do 20 sit-ups or push-ups. See, it really doesn't matter what you do, just that you forcefully interrupt the pattern at the right time. Oh yeah- don't drive when you're feeling self-abusive! If what you try doesn't alleviate the feeling, try something else. Eventually your concious mind will be forced to overtake your subconcious, which is currently in control, simply by the exercise of doing mundane things. Don't try to get creative- don't write or paint (unless it's housepainting), just force yourself to do some mindless busywork and don't allow your sad-o subconcious to wallow in it's self hatred and self-centered fear.

    Many experts say that self mutilation in an attempt to move our pain from the emotional to the physical realm, where we can control it. I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on tv, but this makes sense to me. I say, cheat on it! Instead of letting your emotional pain be the central force governing your life, give it the finger! Tell it to fuck off, you don't need it anymore. Then get even by going on about your daily business as if it weren't there. Hey, even if you get a short amount of time away from it, wouldn't that be nice? Maybe, just maybe, if you get ten minutes the first time, you might get fifteen the next time until you find you've created a new habit, also of your own controlling.

    Yeah, I know, I'm a big-mouthed bitch, and I just gave advice where it wasn't asked for. If this was the wrong thing to do, I apologise- just know that it was given in love, from a person who has learned a bit about overcomming obstacles. It's done wonders for me personally, and I too am a control freak (I know, and I hide it so well!).

    As a liner note, I refuse to get emotionally involved on any level with someone who is in the process of suicide. No one can force anyone to want to live, no one can take responsibility for the well being of another. Many who are suicidal will try to put this on some unsuspecting soul (ie., if you were there for me, I wouldn't try to kill myself), but never me. We are all responsible for our own choices, whether we accept responsibility or not is our own issue and no one else's. If someone is interested in helping themselves, I'll be their friend, but not their backbone. If someone is not interested in helping themselves, I'd prefer not to hear about their daily activities. I have no desire to be a "dumpee" of someone else's unchecked illness.

    Chris, you are a brilliant writer for one so young. I am sure that your level of intelligence separates you from your peers, my daughter experienced many of the same things, so that's one thing I can point to without even knowing you very well. I hope you know you can pm me anytime if you'd like to talk further, and I will respect your wishes as to whether you want any further advice, as long as you respect my boundaries as well. I honestly wish you the best in this, I can sure feel sympathetic to your situation even though the exact nature of our issues are different, many of the results were the same. Godspeed, my friend. Jana
     
  10. Dr. Dilznick

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,662
    Likes Received:
    1
    I often tell people* what they want to hear, usually in response to a question. I've tried the honest approach by simply telling the truth, but people* often take offense to this.




    *people – meaning family members. Friends are a different story.
     
  11. Freddie53

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    7,285
    Likes Received:
    61
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The South, USA
    I have some SERIOUS issues, especially at the age of 15. But I do lie, I can't say that I never have. There is something as a white lie, for the better good. I don't tell everyone I cut and burn and whatnot, when they ask. They ostrosize me enough, so I give them excuses; fake and false one's at that, but I think that is understandable. I could tell them, but there would be a long line of people trying to help, that really wouldn't and I'd have to justify everything that I have to do. I am already sick of explaining everything to the people I HAVE or CHOSE to tell...and that's only a select few.

    But I don't lie just for the sake of it. I'm myself, and that's it.

    CHRIS,

    I know you are sick of explaining of everything. Yet you are coming to this board asking for help. Some suggestions.
    First, when people ask how you are doing. The standard answer in this area fine how are you. IT is a rhetorical question. People just meeting you don't really want to know all of your business. If you just starting babling away, they would be startled to say the least.
    Second, it is not lieing to keep personal business to yourself. If someone is bold enough to ask about your personal business, it is OK to have a line that puts them off. I'm Ok. Or I'm going to be OK. The word better puts some people off. Changing the subject is also a good way to divert attention away from answering personal questions that you don't want to answer.

    I am like Jana. I probably tell too much information. Everyone who reads our posts would spot us if they were to meet us in person. And I am not talking about having seen her picture. I am just talking about what we both have posted about ourselves.

    But back to you. if it is a question about your mental or physical health and you dont wish to discuss it, just say the doctor is still working on it.

    But if you have to just say I would rather not discuss this right now.

    I know you are tired of talking to people. People who have "control" over you. You may need someone that YOU pick that will pm or e-mail regularly that you can tell everything to. I am here if you need me for that. I don't know where you live and I will never divulge on the forum anything you tell me.

    I have done that here and it has been so helpful to me to share with people that I don't have to meet on the street or please like my family and friends who are expecting something.

    Jana's post was wonderful. Do read it several times.

    I do know that part of your problem is that your relationship with you mother was shattered. You admitted that much here. At any age but especially in the teens, that hurts. I hope you can repair your relationship with your Mom. But in the meantime, you need a friend that isn't a doctor paid for by Mom. One that only hears your side of the situation.

    So please pm me or someone else you can trust on this forum that is willing to communicate with you. We might be able to help you more than any body else in the world.

    Freddie
     
  12. yaoifun

    yaoifun New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2005
    Messages:
    783
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Northeastern US
    I'll keep my reply short and sweet. People lie because, at the time, it looks like it will get them out of trouble, or get them what they want. Little do they know that their lies will come back to haunt them and in reality they are just digging a hole and getting deeper and deeper to the point of no return. Someone will ALWAYS know the truth, and no matter how long it takes, when the truth is revealed, things get ugly for the liar. Not to sound hypocritical, but I have lied to people on subjects that just aren't any of their business and had they asked me the same questions after getting to know me, they would have gotten a more "trusting" answer. I seclude myself most of the time, mostly because of how I've been hurt in the past, but I've always found that honesty, even if it makes some people absolutely livid, is always the best policy, because if the person you lied to finds out the truth, and they don't like what the truth is, they will then know the truth AND that you felt the need to lie to them (Holy crap that is totally a run-on sentence, sorry DMW!) Whoops! Looks like I went on a tangent, as usual *looks innocent* (this wasn't so short OR sweet, was it? Makes me look like a hypocrit I'm such a nerd!) I'll end it simply: Lying sucks. It hurts people and will always come back to haunt you if you don't already feel bad about lying (you doesn'y mean YOU chris, just the general people) So people shouldn't lie! Period...and I am through! :) :p
     
  13. Pene_Negro_Grande

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Messages:
    1,100
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Right Next To You
    I think everyone lies to a certain extent...If I lie it is usually not to hurt someones feeling...Lately though since I am not trying to lie - I just do not give a comment or avoid the subject all together...Lies do catch up w/you so beware...I think I have been pretty good lately about lying in any form...
     
  14. jonb

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    2
    Freddie:
    There's a similar figure in Lakota tradition. Inktomi, the spider. Inktomi was originally Ksa, the god of wisdom and son of Inyan (rock) and Wakinyan (thunder). However, Ksa's nephew Gnas defeated him. Ksa was troubled by this, so he changed his name to Inktomi and decided his first trick would be to take advantage of the only god to marry a mortal: Tate (the wind) and Ite. As well as Ite's parents Wazi and Kanka. Ksa told them that Ite's sons Yata, Eya, Yanpa, Okaga, and (as of yet unborn) Yumni would be gods, so they should be too. They planned to lobby Wi (the sun) for this. Inktomi told Ite that Wi was tired of Hanwi (the moon), and that he wished for a younger and more beautiful wife.

    Meanwhile, Inktomi told Hanwi that Wi had thought Ite the most beautiful of all things, but he was sure Wi wouldn't leave her. So Hanwi spent all day trying to find the best clothing to wear before a party at Wohpe's. When Hawni came in, she saw Wi talking to Ite. The gods all laughed at Hanwi, Inktomi the loudest. Hanwi covered her face with her robe, while Tate went home to paint his face and those of his sons, black.

    After the party, Skan (the sky) asked Hanwi why she covered her face. Hanwi said it was because Wi was planning to replace her. Then he asked Wi why he'd let Ite sit next to him. He said her beauty had made him forget Hanwi. Ite told Skan about their little conspiracy.

    Skan told Wi that he would create two new times, dawn and evening, and that Hanwi, not Wi, would rule them. Wi and Hanwi would now be forced to live apart, and Hanwi could travel the Earth alone. But, if Hanwi and Wi were ever together, Hanwi would block Wi's influence.

    Skan told Ite that since she had forgotten her husband and sons, she could be with them no more. Little Yumni was born as soon as he could survive and would remain forever a child. Ite would now be known as Anun-Ite, the two-faced one. She would still have her beautiful face, but her other face would be so hideous, just one look would cause madness.

    Skan told Wazi and Kanka they would have to live alone forever.

    Finally, Skan asked Inktomi why he did it. Inktomi said it was because he deserved better. His father was the oldest of the gods. Inktomi had named all things and created all languages, but because his mother had no physical form, he looked strange, so everyone laughed at him. Since everyone laughed at him, that would be his new way of doing things. Skan said that everyone would hate him, and that rattles would drive him mad.

    Then Skan called his brother Tate and his sons to ask what should be done with Anun-Ite. Tate said that he missed Ite, and his sons needed their mother. Skan ruled that until Okaga was an adult, they could live near Anun-Ite. At that time, Skan would send a token to Tate's sons.

    Since Wi at this time represented men and Hanwi represented women, Skan ruled that all men would face retribution. To summarize:

    *Women could purify themselves every time Hanwi went around the world; men could not.
    *Men would no longer be able to sustain life.
    *Women would be able to see things men couldn't.
    *Women could divorce with no problem; men would need to find a new husband for her. That is, barring cases where the woman was at fault.

    Wohpe overturned all but the last ruling when she gave us the seven ceremonies: When sweating, we purify ourselves; at the Sundance, we cut off parts of ourselves to keep the world going; and when crying for a vision, we see where we belong. The rest of Skan's pro-female, anti-male streak of rulings remain in place.

    Anyway, back to Inktomi, he does some good things too. When his brother Iya (half-brother really; Inyan cheated on Wakinyan with Unk, the goddess of water) ate all of humanity, Inktomi asked if he could be eaten too. Then Inktomi killed Iya from the inside and rescued everyone.
     
  15. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    NelsonMuntz84: Some people have low self asteem, though it always puzzles me what they think when they come offline and have to face not being the person that they have created.

    Others are a bit loopy I think, and as said above just like attention, no matter what. Others simply dont care and think because everything is a joke to them, its the same for everyone.

    The sad thing is, those people who lie if they came on and just talked about themselves would probably be really interesting.

    Its also alot of work to lie, its much easier to just be yourself.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted