Police Admit to Killing 92 Year Old Woman

Lex

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Police have always been that way. The current administration didn't make them that way. There has never been a time when no knock raids were completely illegal. Wilson v. Arkansas was not the moment when it was suddenly okay to do this. It is for the safety of the police officers conducting the raid. Regardless of what you think about police officers it would be hard to argue with that, unless of course you just don't have the ability to think.

Where did I say that these police atrocities were the responsibility of the current administration? This shit has been going on since the beginning of time. The problem, as DC and Zora have pointed out is that current legislation has increased the ability of law enforcement to infringe upon people without thinking and due process.

As someone who has experienced and witnessed police mistreatment (I grew up in an inner city), my perspective is probably a lot different than yours. I understand that police officers should be protected. I am glad that there are people who choose to do this job. I also know that officers wear bullet-proof vests, carry guns, nightsticks and and pepper spray. So, this "for the safety of the officers" argument falls on deaf ears this way.

The woman in this case was in her own home, minding her own business when people came bursting through her door. With a "no knock" warrant, the officers don't annouce who they are. Does ANY of this make sense to you? It doesn't to me.

If someone unannouced comes running into my house, you can believe they are gonna get whatever is coming to them. And rightfully so. Coming onto someone's property without their permission is called trespassing and knocking down someone's door is called breaking and entering. Unless you are a police officer and have a "hunch" I suppose.
 

Wrat

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Where did I say that these police atrocities were the responsibility of the current administration? This shit has been going on since the beginning of time. The problem, as DC and Zora have pointed out is that current legislation has increased the ability of law enforcement to infringe upon people without thinking and due process.

As someone who has experienced and witnessed police mistreatment (I grew up in an inner city), my perspective is probably a lot different than yours. I understand that police officers should be protected. I am glad that there are people who choose to do this job. I also know that officers wear bullet-proof vests, carry guns, nightsticks and and pepper spray. So, this "for the safety of the officers" argument falls on deaf ears this way.

The woman in this case was in her own home, minding her own business when people came bursting through her door. With a "no knock" warrant, the officers don't annouce who they are. Does ANY of this make sense to you? It doesn't to me.

If someone unannouced comes running into my house, you can believe they are gonna get whatever is coming to them. And rightfully so. Coming onto someone's property without their permission is called trespassing and knocking down someone's door is called breaking and entering. Unless you are a police officer and have a "hunch" I suppose.


Well let's see if this makes sense.

If you live in a city we can assume that you are living within the jurisdiction of a functional police department with ongoing operations designed to reduce crime. This is a worldwide standard. As much as you disilke the police (and you haven't said that you do) you cannot dispute that they are a necessary part of living in a modern society.
Up to a point in th is case the police were doing what they were supposed to be doing. They were attempting to locate dangerous criminals and apprehend them. I would bet that the method of entry was carefully chosen to reduce the likelihood of injury to the police. Keep in mind that they believe that they are going after a dangerous criminal.
The police were sloppy and incompetent. They relied on unreliable sources and lied about the incident afterwards. It's hard to ignore that. Up to that point though it was a matter of mistake. Everybody makes mistakes, but it's very difficult to understand when the police opt to use deadly force without a more diligent investigation.
 

DC_DEEP

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Well let's see if this makes sense.

If you live in a city we can assume that you are living within the jurisdiction of a functional police department with ongoing operations designed to reduce crime. This is a worldwide standard. As much as you disilke the police (and you haven't said that you do) you cannot dispute that they are a necessary part of living in a modern society.
Up to a point in th is case the police were doing what they were supposed to be doing. They were attempting to locate dangerous criminals and apprehend them. I would bet that the method of entry was carefully chosen to reduce the likelihood of injury to the police. Keep in mind that they believe that they are going after a dangerous criminal.
The police were sloppy and incompetent. They relied on unreliable sources and lied about the incident afterwards. It's hard to ignore that. Up to that point though it was a matter of mistake. Everybody makes mistakes, but it's very difficult to understand when the police opt to use deadly force without a more diligent investigation.
This is the point we are trying to get across to you, Wrat. I don't think any of us has claimed that police are unnecessary, or a bad thing. It's just that bad police are a bad thing. In this particular case, it appears that the police paid for, and accepted, information from a source they KNOW to be unreliable at best (he is a drug-addicted informant, right? Say anything to make a buck and protect his own ass?) and did (apparently) nothing to verify any part of that information. Before breaking down a door and firing, most COMPETENT police forces would have had an undercover agent inside the building at least once. For them to have no real proof of what was behind that door before they broke it down is inexcusable.

An honest police force is necessary; a sloppy or corrupt police force should not be allowed to continue.
 

Lex

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This is the point we are trying to get across to you, Wrat. I don't think any of us has claimed that police are unnecessary, or a bad thing. It's just that bad police are a bad thing. In this particular case, it appears that the police paid for, and accepted, information from a source they KNOW to be unreliable at best (he is a drug-addicted informant, right? Say anything to make a buck and protect his own ass?) and did (apparently) nothing to verify any part of that information. Before breaking down a door and firing, most COMPETENT police forces would have had an undercover agent inside the building at least once. For them to have no real proof of what was behind that door before they broke it down is inexcusable.

An honest police force is necessary; a sloppy or corrupt police force should not be allowed to continue.

Thanks for reinforcing my point. I adore good cops.
 

DC_DEEP

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Thanks for reinforcing my point. I adore good cops.
Well, Lex, it's like any other group. It's not just police. We all know that doctors are a necessary thing. But if there were a particular hospital (city) where the surgeons (cops) were all terribly corrupt or inept or didn't research a patient's history and symptoms (informant information pursuant to a warrant) we would all be outraged, especially if it routinely resulted in patient (innocent citizen) deaths.

Imagine a doctor who has an unconscious patient. He pays a strung-out druggie off the street to tell him what's wrong with the patient. The druggie says it's a brain tumor - when actually, it's diabetic coma. The surgeon digs into the patient's brain and finds nothing, but the patient dies. If the doctor had actually done a quick CT or x-ray and a quick blood panel, he could have avoided a tragedy. But he had to act quickly.
 

Rikter8

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An honest police force is necessary; a sloppy or corrupt police force should not be allowed to continue.

Agreed, but who to teach an example when political members (of any party or creed) are corrupted by the allmighty dollar.

There are a few good cops out there, but the majority sadly have been corrupted by their freedom to do as they please, and have the govt backing them to do as they please.

This story is quite frankly sad, and much Egg on the face of the police that handled it, their chief, and the Mayor.

To fire that many shots, clearly shows that the officers were NOT trained to handle a firearm.
Plain clothes in doing a raid? I wonder if they wore their Flip-Flops.

Jailtme in my opinion only makes people more irate, as they sit in there and stew. Day after day.
Plus, I as a taxpayer have to pay for thier food, AC and Cable.
I say they strip them of their badge, give them a dishonerable discharge, and make them work for a living like the rest of us poor slobs. Put them on a teather, and make them report in. (Under the big thumb like the rest of us)

Fire the Chief of Police for ill-managing a police force. Proof in the pudding is the amount of shots fired at this woman, and the plain clothes while doing the raid.

Remove the Mayor for Ill managing the Chief.

I don't blame her for firing upon them. How scary would that be for someone her age to get robbed by 2 plain clothed men with guns.
BUT.... it seems ODD that a 92 would be sitting with a firearm at her side, unless she lived in the GHETTO and this type of scenario was commonplace.
I just get that gut feeling that there was more to this story than we know.
C
 

DC_DEEP

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I don't blame her for firing upon them. How scary would that be for someone her age to get robbed by 2 plain clothed men with guns.
BUT.... it seems ODD that a 92 would be sitting with a firearm at her side, unless she lived in the GHETTO and this type of scenario was commonplace.
I just get that gut feeling that there was more to this story than we know.
C
Rikter, I'm getting the impression that granny does NOT live in a Beverly Hills-type neighborhood... probably more like Anacostia in DC. Not good. I'm also guessing that it's not the first time someone tried to break down her door. I'm also guessing that she thought it was the same thugs that tried to break in the first time(s)... hell, the first time someone broke into her house it was probably the strung-out junkie who gave police the information.
 

rob_just_rob

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Wow... why do libs hate the military, police, and religion so much.. why? Those three do so much good 99.9999999999999% of the time... yet the bad apples, seem to be assumed the norm. I forgot to also include why you hate the United States so much too... seriously.

99.9999999999999% of the time? :confused:

Can you back up that statistic, please? One questionable or negative action per quadrillion (1,000,000,000,000,000) good actions seems awfully low.
 

B_big dirigible

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You can't really expect your average street cop with an iq of less-than-average to adequately interpret law. Putting tools like this in the hands of the less-than-capable is sure to lead to these results.

That's why the judiciary is supposed to be involved. So who is the judge who gave them the warrant, what other bogus warrents has he granted in the past, is anyone now doing jail time because of his previous bogus warrants, who appointed him (or elected him), and was his warrant for a drug raid granted under a misapplication of the Patriot Act, or was it just ordinary incompetence or corruption? None of these questions have anything to do with Washington.

But who really cares if a few niggers and spics get killed in the name of fighting crime?

As long as they're sacrificed on the altar of "Blame it on Bush," they'll continue to be abused. There are real malfactors involved here, and they need to be pursued and fucked over to the extent permitted by law. But as long as everything is blamed on Washinton, these troglodytes will continue to get away with their local abuses, and they all know that somebody else will be blamed. That's no way to attack a real problem.
 

DC_DEEP

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Is that a fancy-schmancy way of saying, "I disagree with you based on dogmatic reasons, but since I don't have a logical counter, I'll make up a statistic in lieu of debate"?
Nah, you handsome florence-flask-shaped stud, it was a fancy-schmancy way of saying "the idiot tried, unsuccessfully, to use exaggeration as a means of being cute and cutting at the same time."