Police fire 50 shots at unarmed men!

SpeedoGuy

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But since violence is an unpleasant thing, it doesn't make sense that any rational person would love it for its own sake, the way people love puppies, chocolate and making fun of mimes.

Why?

Therein lies the answer. Perhaps there is a fleeting sensation of power but overall the love of violence is not rational.

I can remember, years ago, watching two grown men beat each other senseless over a comment one uttered toward the other. Fisticuffs, blood, torn clothing, shouted obscenities, crushed lawn chairs, etc until law enforcement belatedly showed up.

Entire families gathered round to watch, adults and toddlers. No one tried to stop it, parents didn't lead their children away. Some even egged the the combatants on. Afterwards, there were no comments from anyone deploring the scene. Instead, there were snickers and grins. All anyone wanted to talk about was who hit who hardest and other technical merits of hand to hand combat.

It disgusted me.
 

rob_just_rob

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Therein lies the answer. Perhaps there is a fleeting sensation of power but overall the love of violence is not rational.

I have my hypotheses, and you've touched on a few of them. But, I won't threadjack any more, except to say that some stories I hear about the stuff that goes on in the U.S.A. completely flabbergast me.
 

B_spiker067

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It's another Amado Dialo thing.

No shit. To be a decent guy and be reaching for your wallet to show id and then have your doorway look like swiss cheese the next day says a lot for the training or lack thereof of NYC finest.

If I was the lawyers of the family I would subpoena blood samples from all officers involved in this new shooting and check for steroid abuse. Sit in a law enforcement gymn locker for awhile and you hear some pretty shitty stuff.

It ain't right and if it was up to me they would shove into every law enforcement officer a little 24X7 radio tag. Most are decent guys but like in Islam today its that larger than it should be radical minority that fucks it all up.

Ruby Ridge, Waco, Rampart, ...

I think it takes a pretty even termperament for life to be a L.E.O.
 

AlteredEgo

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I wouldn't say so... I'd say more like Inside Hit, or Mafia...

I don't think his color had anything to do with it.......

Anybody that's been trained on firearms knows that you dont fire unless you intend to kill, AND hit your target.

So, either these were the shittest cops on planet Earth and couldnt hit the broadside of a barn to safe their life..... OR...it was an Inside Job...

There's always more to the story once you start digging in


You are kidding me, right? Right? Have you forgotten how NYPD treated Amadou Diallo? They knocked on his door, at his home, and when he reached for identification in compliance with police demands, they shot at him 41 times, hitting him with just shy of half the bullets fired. They didn't wait to seee a gun. They wanted to shoot him, and they did. Turns out, he wasn't the rapist they were looking for, either. When was the last time NYPD pulled some shit like that in Gramercy Park, Riverdale, Bayside or some other white area?

As for this more recent shooting, police were in the area because they were part of a sting at a nearby club. According to civillian witnesses (yes, they fired all those shots while innocent people were walking and driving around, in the middle of a residential neighborhood) the fellas in the car had been in the club, and were involved in an argument outside of it. One witness on the news this evening said that they were followed to there car, and that the man who followed them jumped in front of the car brandishing a gun. The witness never heard the officer identify himself, and speculated that perhaps he didn't identify himself. I know I have seen NYPD detectives fail to ID themselves, so it is possible. The witness said it looked to him like he saw the argument, followed some of the guys and then pulled a weapon on them. The witness said it seemed like the logical thing to do, if they didn't have a gun too, was to hit him with the car. Then he started shooting, at one point getting on the hood of the car. Another unmarked vehicle boxed them in. It appeared that they were in a fight. It appeared to make sense to try to take out the guy in front and drive away. Oh. I found it interesting that the witness did not hear the officer ID himself, but did hear the officer indicate that there was a gun in the car. Very interesting.

Inside hit? The guy was not part of any underworld. Who'd need to hit him? The first thing the NYPD likes to do when they murder someone, is dig up their criminal records. They figure it won't look so bad if they are brutalizing hardened criminals. Bell's records were all sealed, which means he had no entries on his record past the age of 17, and it means they are telling the public about sealed records, which is just gross if you ask me. The man was 23. He had at least 6 years with a clean nose. What person powerful enough to get a police taskforce to hit someone needs to hit someone like him?

I agree that this is not likely DWB, and I don't think this was racially motivated. I think it was a bored cop overzealously trying to get a collar. It was the taskforce's last night on the island, and I think they really, really wanted it to be a big one. It was. I hope they're happy.

I think Bloomberg is handling this very well, unlike that opportunistic moron Giulliani. My fellow Americans, please do not let "America's Mayor" fool you. Giulliani was a dangerous, homophobic racist when he only had control of the NYPD. Let's not make him commander-in-chief! I know this last bit is a bit of a tangent, but it's related, and important to me.
 

AlteredEgo

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No one tried to stop it, parents didn't lead their children away. Some even egged the the combatants on. Afterwards, there were no comments from anyone deploring the scene. Instead, there were snickers and grins. All anyone wanted to talk about was who hit who hardest and other technical merits of hand to hand combat.

It disgusted me.

I'm not trying to argue with you. I promise. Having said that:

What did you do?
 

SpeedoGuy

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I'm not trying to argue with you. I promise. Having said that:

What did you do?

Good question. I was too young to physically stop the situation and no one even heard, let alone heeded, my calls for it to cease. It escalated very quickly. For all I could do I might as well have waved a hanky in the face of a charging tyranosaur.

I watched briefly, became disgusted, then made my way out of sight and earshot of the scene. I made my way back after law enforcement broke up the fight and was further disgusted by the attitude of the people who were discussing the fight. An otherwise pleasant afternoon spoiled.

Sorry for thread hijacking.
 

AlteredEgo

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Thanks for the speedy response Speedo. I too apologize for participating in the thread-jacking.:biggrin1:

Isn't it funny how violence just stays with you. The most violent thing I saw ever was a little boy getting hit by a car, rolling up the windshield, sliding back down it, and thunking onto the floor. I was the passenger. I can still see every second, though my memory always pauses at the split second when his little cherub face was visible through the windshield, expressionless. It pauses again ta the moment when I knelt beside him and slipped my hand into the neck of his jacket, trying to find a pulse and spotted the blood trickling out of his ear. He haunts me. I wasn't even the one driving. I don't even know if he dies from the injuries, but he's my ghost. He gets hit again everytime someone stops short with me as the front passenger, and I'm not sure I hope to ever get over the trauma of possibly watching that child get killed. I love him. I'm angry with him. I want to shake him! I hope he's okay. I don't even know his name. I found out he was 12. He looked 6.

When I hear about police brutality, when I hear about 41 bullets, 52 bullets fired at unarmed men, when I think of the children at Waco...

I wonder to myself, if I'm the broken one, if we're supposded to be able to dehumanize each other like that, or if it takes a special kind of lunatic to carry a gun and wear a badge.

How's that for getting back on topic?
 

baseball99

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Hingsight it always 20/20.....when a cop gets killed in a shootout how come there isnt the same uproar? They were unarmed. How do you know they didnt say they had a weapon? I'm sorry but when someone tries to run someone over with a car, thats a weapon. Everyone can be an expert with biased news media stories. Everyone can say what should have been done or how they would have handled it. However, anyone in that situation as the cop would have reacted the same way. Someone just tried to run you down with a car and you'll just write down the license plate number? I'm sorry but I hate when people act like experts when no one even knows the whole story yet. I give cops a lot of credit for what they do and despite a few bad cops they do a great job and put themselves in harms way every single day. They help keep your country civil so you can speak out against them. Its always easy to criticize when you're not in their situation, but until everyone knows the whole story premature opinions dont help the situation at all

and bloomberg is an idiot for giving an opinion without the whole story, all politicians are the same
 

jeff black

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Entire families gathered round to watch, adults and toddlers. No one tried to stop it, parents didn't lead their children away. Some even egged the the combatants on. Afterwards, there were no comments from anyone deploring the scene. Instead, there were snickers and grins. All anyone wanted to talk about was who hit who hardest and other technical merits of hand to hand combat.

It disgusted me.

Your arguement is interesting, Speedo. I just dont' know if it is completely true. Americans are violent, it is true but to blame the media on that is questionable. Canadians have all the same shows as the americans.
 

DC_DEEP

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Cops wont make a statement until an investigation is complete. News media has labeled it excessive.....wtf do they know, they report news. All we know is at some point the driver drove and hit an undercover police officer and then hit an undercover police car. Was he trying to get away bc he was fired at and fleeing for his life? Or was he tryin to get away bc he had something to hide? We wont know until an investigation is complete.....Let's be realistic tho if you have absolutely nothing to hide, why would you run from cops?

And if i hear one more time that they were shot bc they were black im gonna scream.....werent several of the cops minorities as well?

I'm just wondering why the guy just didnt stop, put his hands on his head and cooperate

also none of the cops had ever been involved in a shootout before.....theres a lot more to the story than people know and premature opinions dont help the situation either way
You obviously don't live in the Washington DC Metro Area. I've posted several threads about the apparently unprovoked fatal shootings that the cops (hmmm, off-duty cops 2/3 of the time) commit around here on a too-frequent basis. We have so many different police forces it gets hard to keep track of their offenses, (city, county, state, district, and federal); every time there is a controversy, the investigation is internal, not independent; most of those investigations as drawn out so long that the next controversy sweeps the previous one under the rug. One of those was an off-duty US Marshall who road-raged on a teenager who cut him off on the road. The unarmed teen was shot point-blank after the cop ran him off the road.

People here are often terrified to stop, even if they have done nothing wrong.
 

Lex

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People here are often terrified to stop, even if they have done nothing wrong.

Word. I used to drive an Acura Interga when I taught school and I got tailed all the time (20-something who looked younger driving a luxury sports car). I got stopped once for failing to put on a turn signal. I followed all directions. I was scared shitless. He asked me for my DL and registration--I told him that it was in my glove compartment, that my cell phone in a black leather case was in there and I did not want him to think it was a gun. He shone his light on my so he could be sure. The entire time I thought I was going to get shot. That was 1997.


Flash forward to 2005. I was driving my 2004 Honda Pilot and coming back from Home Depot in the middle of a Saturday afternoon. A cop pulled me over. Over the speed limit he would later tell me. I was in the middle of a very busy intersection. He pulled his gun on me as he approached my car. I was wearing a shirt and jeans from doing landscaping work. He was polite (and so was I since he was holding a 9 MM in his hand). In the end, he gave me a ticket for being over the speed limit on the side street.

Question: when was the last time YOU had a gun pulled on you for a speeding stop in the middle of a sunny afternoon with a truck full of mulch and flowers?

Flash forward 3 months later. I am in a suit, drving through the moutains of western MD to a Local School Board forma trainign I was scheduled to deliver when I get pulled over by a trooper.

His questions:
Is this your car?
Is this where you live (while looking at my license)?
What are you doing all the way out here?

WTF?!?

To those of you who think any of this shit is justified, I say: Fuck you. Live a month in my skin and see how it feels to be articulate, intelligent, well dressed and groomed, well-spoken and STILL be treated like a criminal. It fucking sucks. And it makes you angry. VERY angry.
 

rob_just_rob

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Word. I used to drive an Acura Interga when I taught school and I got tailed all the time (20-something who looked younger driving a luxury sports car). I got stopped once for failing to put on a turn signal. I followed all directions. I was scared shitless. He asked me for my DL and registration--I told him that it was in my glove compartment, that my cell phone in a black leather case was in there and I did not want him to think it was a gun. He shone his light on my so he could be sure. The entire time I thought I was going to get shot. That was 1997.


Flash forward to 2005. I was driving my 2004 Honda Pilot and coming back from Home Depot in the middle of a Saturday afternoon. A cop pulled me over. Over the speed limit he would later tell me. I was in the middle of a very busy intersection. He pulled his gun on me as he approached my car. I was wearing a shirt and jeans from doing landscaping work. He was polite (and so was I since he was holding a 9 MM in his hand). In the end, he gave me a ticket for being over the speed limit on the side street.

Question: when was the last time YOU had a gun pulled on you for a speeding stop in the middle of a sunny afternoon with a truck full of mulch and flowers?

Flash forward 3 months later. I am in a suit, drving through the moutains of western MD to a Local School Board forma trainign I was scheduled to deliver when I get pulled over by a trooper.

His questions:
Is this your car?
Is this where you live (while looking at my license)?
What are you doing all the way out here?

WTF?!?

To those of you who think any of this shit is justified, I say: Fuck you. Live a month in my skin and see how it feels to be articulate, intelligent, well dressed and groomed, well-spoken and STILL be treated like a criminal. It fucking sucks. And it makes you angry. VERY angry.

Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be a lot better here - speaking not from personal experience, but from having heard stories from friends and following the racial profiling issue here for some time.

By contrast... I once was stopped on the DVP (major north-south highway in Toronto) at 3 AM on a Wednesday morning for speeding. I was dishevelled and sweaty. The cop asked me where I was going at that hour and at that speed, and I replied "home". He asked where I was coming from, and I said truthfully "From my girlfriend's, can't you tell?" (the scent of sex was definitely noticeable in my clothes even the next day :redface: ).

He let me off with a smile and a warning. I suspect the conversation would have been different if I hadn't been a middle-aged white guy in a Toyota.
 

Lex

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He let me off with a smile and a warning. I suspect the conversation would have been different if I hadn't been a middle-aged white guy in a Toyota.


My neighbor (middle-aged white guy) gets pulled over a much as I do and never gets a ticket. A few months ago, he got nailed for speed and NO SEAT belt. No ticket. We timidily laugh about why. We all know why.
 

OKFarmer

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When I worked overnights, I was once driving to my job in the truck. Apparently, after unhooking the trailer, the connector for the tail lights hadn't quite gotten pushed together firmly. About 3 blocks from work I got pulled over by one of the local PD. He walks up to the truck and says, "I notice you are driving a farm truck... do you have a gun?" WTF I think, nothing about license or insurance. So I told him no. "Well I notice this is a farm truck, are you sure you don't have a gun in it? Country people usually have guns and I don't want to have to shoot you". No officer I don't have a gun in here. "Any other weapons?" Well officer I might have an axe that I use for cutting firewood in here somewhere, I'm not sure tho or it might be in the bed. "Well I'd hate to shoot you". So i'm thinking wow this cop is a dumbshit. Then he decides he needs license and insurance. I said well let me get my license out of my wallet and the insurance is probably in the glove compartment. "If I see a gun I'm going to shoot you." Long story short, I couldn't find the insurance form and told him that I would just take a citation because I didn't want to check the console and have him decide he needed to shoot me. He told me that if I didn't have insurance he'd just let me go, but if I wanted to prove my insurance he'd give me a ticket. Whatever. The fucktard must have mentioned shooting me 20x in the space of 15 minutes. There I was in a dress shirt, slacks, and tie and after he knew I was heading to work, my only "crime" was my tail lights being out and my decision to not get shot looking for a piece of paper. The ass checked my vin number so he knew I had no vehicular charges in 10 years and had me run on the crime database so he knew I'd never been arrested.

The problem is in small towns, cops make minimum wage. You don't get a completely sane or intelligent person to accept a high risk job for minimum. This guy was just a kid in an adult's body still wanting to play shoot em up. The joy is I couldn't report the loser or he'd just flag me as a criminal waiting capture.

If it is this bad in small towns, I can only imagine the morons people get subjected to in a large city where cops are overworked and underpaid. I have nothing but respect for a good cop who busts his hump to take care of his family and keep his town safe and clean. However, I hate being pulled over by Deputy Dog who still guzzles beer with the kids on the riverbank and gets his jiggies from giving decent people hell.
 

Shelby

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Whenever I get pulled over the cops always compliment my driving skills, clean my windows and ask if there's anything else I need.

Probably because I'm white.
 

baseball99

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its still only an isolated number of incidents and probably some bad cops. These are horrible situations yes, but they dont nearly outnumber or come close to the amount go stuff that good cops prevent and protect you all from. I'm still interested to hear the whole story before i form an opinion on the matter.....I have the deepest and utmost respect for cops and I see the kind of people they bring into the hospital, transport from prison for medical care, etc.....All of you are very lucky that some of these people dont and cant live next door to you. Yeh blame the cops for pulling you over, blame the cops for whatever, but your precious little world wouldnt exist without them
 

rob_just_rob

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its still only an isolated number of incidents and probably some bad cops. These are horrible situations yes, but they dont nearly outnumber or come close to the amount go stuff that good cops prevent and protect you all from. I'm still interested to hear the whole story before i form an opinion on the matter.....

You've already formed an opinion - don't be disingenuous.

I have the deepest and utmost respect for cops and I see the kind of people they bring into the hospital, transport from prison for medical care, etc.....All of you are very lucky that some of these people dont and cant live next door to you. Yeh blame the cops for pulling you over, blame the cops for whatever, but your precious little world wouldnt exist without them

Yes, we should be very thankful for the police brutality we have - look at the alternative! :rolleyes:

I suspect you'd be singing a different tune if you were the victim of police profiling.
 

Lex

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its still only an isolated number of incidents and probably some bad cops. ...All of you are very lucky that some of these people dont and cant live next door to you. Yeh blame the cops for pulling you over, blame the cops for whatever, but your precious little world wouldnt exist without them

Cops don't stop people from living next door to me from being criminals or breaking any laws. Your logis is beyond flawed. In fact, I can assure you that while they are pulling me over for bullshit, other crimes ARE occuring. I tend to think that good people make the world good.

As a school-aged teen, I had cops harass me and my friends for standing on the bus stop waiting for the bus to get to my after school job (while the corner boys with pockets of drugs slowly walked away). Would I really STAND there if I have drugs in my backpack (which had my work uniform)?


Yes, we should be very thankful for the police brutality we have - look at the alternative! :rolleyes:

I suspect you'd be singing a different tune if you were the victim of police profiling.

I totally forgot to be thankful for that on Thanksgiving. Damn.