Political question for you ladies

Discussion in 'Women's Issues' started by Penis Aficionado, Aug 25, 2008.

  1. Penis Aficionado

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    I just read in U.S.A. Today that 47 percent of people who voted for Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primaries say they have not yet made up their minds to vote for Barack Obama in November. That's a pretty stunning statistic, considering that 1) Hillary has endorsed Obama in the strongest possible terms; and 2) As far as the direction in which they want to lead the country, Clinton and Obama are 99% in agreement.

    I think it's safe to assume that most of those 47 percent are women, especially in light of another statistic I recently read: Obama and McCain are basically tied right now among women. That's also stunning, because the Democrat usually wins the female vote by a sizable margin.

    Somehow I don't think this is just about loyalty to Hillary or disappointment that she lost. On some level (and I have discovered this in personal conversations with female friends), a lot of women seem to have a gut-level dislike or distrust of Obama. But I can't figure out why -- to me he seems like the most "regular guy" to have ever seriously run for president, the most thoughtful, the most in touch with the concerns and struggles of ordinary American women.

    At first I speculated that because Obama is relatively young and energetic, he reminds women of men they've dated or lusted after or had one-night stands with or whatever, and women don't want that in the leader of the free world. They want the president to seem kind of over and beyond sexuality. But that doesn't work, because women loved the two greatest pussyhounds to ever occupy the White House, JFK and Bill Clitnon.

    Does anyone have any explanation for what is going on?
     
  2. ManlyBanisters

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    You think there is a possibility women vote based on whether a male candidate reminds them of a previous conquest and not on issues then?

    Bollocks. And I don't think your assumption that those 47%ers are women is at all safe.

    It's a flawed question.
     
  3. Industrialsize

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    Factcheck:
    On the August 24 edition of CNN's Late Edition, host Wolf Blitzer and chief national correspondent John King both cited an August 15-18 Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll in which 52 percent of Sen. Hillary Clinton's supporters said they will support Sen. Barack Obama, but neither noted that an August 19-22 Washington Post/ABC News poll found that 70 percent of Clinton supporters "back Obama," according to the Post. An ABCNews.com "analysis" of the poll similarly stated that "70 percent of [Clinton supporters] are for" Obama.
    also in the Usa today poll you cite:
    In the survey, taken Thursday through Saturday, 47% of Clinton supporters say they are solidly behind Obama, and 23% say they support him but may change their minds before the election.
    It's called the "media manipulating numbers to confabulate a news story."
    47 plus 23 =70
     
  4. Penis Aficionado

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    I'm not saying they vote don't vote on issues -- but if you supported Hillary, and you vote on issues, you would now support Obama. There's just no question about it. So there must be another reason why so many Hillary supporters don't back Obama.
     
  5. ManlyBanisters

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    As Indy says - the figures have been spun to make it look like more have said they are not going to vote for him. As I said - there is no reported stat that says the former Clinton supporters who are considering not voting for Obama are majority female. If you can show me some proof that this is a woman thing I'll read it and rethink - but I think there is this weird ass assumption that Clinton supporters are female - and that's just not the case.

    And please: why is she 'Hillary' but he is 'Obama' - why do we have to call women politicians by their first names and men by their surnames. It's ridiculous. Either say Clinton and Obama or Hillary and Barrack - there is not Bill / Hillary confusion either, so don't give me that. You are clearly talking about the 08 Dem candidates so Bill does not figure. (sorry - OT - but a personal gripe of mine.)
     
    #5 ManlyBanisters, Aug 25, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2008
  6. Industrialsize

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    Actually it was Senator Clinton's decision to go by "Hillary" in this campaign. A majority of her campaign posters simply have the word Hillary! on them. I think she wanted to distinguish herself from Bill. Go to hillaryclinton.com . You'lle see the opening page simply says HILLARY!
     
  7. ManlyBanisters

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    Yes - but it isn't just her - people called Cori Aquino 'Cori', Margaret Thatcher 'Margaret' or 'Maggie', Condoleezza Rice is 'Condoleezza' or 'Condi', Benazir Bhutto was 'Benazir', Indira Gandhi was 'Indira', Golda Meir was 'Golda'. And so on. I don't accept that it is to distinguish them from their husbands / fathers - Meir, Thatcher and Rice do not have well known partners / fathers. You say Thatcher and people know you are not talking about Dennis - you say Rice and you know there is only one politician who 'owns' that name with no further qualification.

    Hillary Clinton may well have chose 'Hillary' herself - but I think there is at least the possibility that she was smart enough to realise that she was going to be referred to by her first name anyway so why roll with it - use it as 'the personal touch'.

    Like I say - OT - just a personal gripe - but not a completely unfounded one.
     
    #7 ManlyBanisters, Aug 25, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2008
  8. Penis Aficionado

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    I stand corrected on the numbers I quoted -- I only scanned the USA Today article and didn't really think it through.

    However, I do think something a little odd is operating on the subconscious level for a lot of people in this election. It is very hard to figure out why Obama is not 15-20 points ahead in the polls right now. As I understand it, he has smashed all records for fundraising by a presidential candidate, and for votes received during the primary process. He draws football stadium-sized crowds to his speeches -- no other politician in my lifetime has done that. People agree with him more than McCain on almost all the important issues. People hate George Bush and the Republican Party. And what's more, McCain has looked old and befuddled ever since winning the Republican nomination (that's not just my opinion, TV commentators remark on that all the time.)

    So what gives? What is it about Obama that rubs so many people (women or not) the wrong way? I don't buy that it's because he's black, either.
     
  9. javyn

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    I think there's something to that, subconsciously it's possible. No need to get defensive and give knee-jerk responses here. Fact is, since the advent of television, no one really votes for politicians based on issues anymore. People of both sexes seem to care more about what school the politician went to, how he treated his ex-wife, what color ties he wears, and other such bullshit. People are going to vote for Obama because McCain has 7 houses, and people will vote for McCain just because Obama's middle name is Hussein.

    Try asking someone specifically why they are voting for either candidate. You won't get a substantive answer. Just repeated sound bites and rhetoric. I'm voting for 'hope and change'? Oh yeah, specifically what will he do for change? "Oh I dunno". That's the answer I get every single day when I ask why someone supports Obama for instance.
     
  10. dude252007

    dude252007 New Member

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    Its simple really. Everyone says that they are 99% in agreement on the issues. That is the biggest fairytale since the media's report of Obama's voting record. I think most Clinton supporters are thinking of health care and Obama does not support healthcare. He supports a plan only for children forgetting that the parents are the bread winners and if they should fall ill then the whole household suffers.
     
  11. javyn

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    Really, both candidates are bought off by the same lobbies. You lose no matter which way you vote unless you vote third party, in which you'll still lose, but at least you'd be true to your convictions.
     
  12. Penis Aficionado

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    Dude, I'm sorry but that's just incorrect. The only substantive difference in their health care plans is that Clinton wanted to make the purchase of health insurance mandatory, like with auto insurance, and Obama didn't.

    Both of them want to maintain the current system in which health insurance is basically a perk of having a job and is provided by a for-profit insurance company -- which in my opinion means nothing is going to change. When your employer and your insurer both have financial incentives to limit and restrict your health care, that's just too much resistance to overcome through legislation.
     
  13. SwingDriver

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    It's the media. They control the message, but the damn facts keep getting in their way.

    The legacy media is running scared as their rich man's dynasty is about to end. They want McCain to win because he won't break up their monopolies, he won't restore the fairness doctrine, and he won't return any portion of the airwaves to the people.
     
  14. Kassokilleri2ff

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    Lol, voting on issues, ha! The facial appearance of the candidate makes more of a difference than the issues. Although, in this case you would think mccain would be losing, his face is all kinds of jacked up. But then again, black guy vs white guy, even people who claim not to be racist already have racist traits marked into them since childhood.

    Also who cares if figurehead women have their first names used. Maybe its so you can tell they are women. If you use a last name it could be either way. When you use their first name, you know its a women who achieved whatever prestigious title. Maybe its just to keep women down, because we hate to see a woman outside the kitchen. Maybe somebody should write an article about such a topic? lol.
     
  15. 3664shaken

    3664shaken New Member

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    From a woman,

    Obama is a 95% idealist, which many women agree with, I Do not.

    Hillary was 50/50 idealist so she agreed more with me than obama.

    I think that those of us who analyze and not fell, believe, hope, or wish for a change realize that obama is a pretty vapid candidate, full of platitudes and non- sequitur’s

    We can definitely do better then obama, he is a major disappointment.

    Besides, I do not like being dictated to by the party elites who will be the candidate, it should be us who decides.



    From a woman,

    Obama is a 95% idealist, which many women agree with, I Do not.

    Hillary was 50/50 idealist so she agreed more with me than obama.

    I think that those of us who analyze and not fell, believe, hope, or wish for a change realize that obama is a pretty vapid candidate, full of platitudes and non- sequitur’s

    We can definitely do better then obama, he is a major disappointment.

    Besides, I do not like being dictated to by the party elites who will be the candidate, it should be us who decides.


     
  16. Penis Aficionado

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    See, I actually think Obama is the realistic one. They both want "change," but Hillary thinks that can be achieved within the system as it exists. She thinks that if she's the president, she will "fight" the evil Republicans and the greedy corporations and make a better world for the ordinary folks. But that never works out. That's what every Democrat's been saying year after year, and even on the rare occasions when they when, nothing much changes. You just can't get anything done when the country is split 50-50, or even 55-45.

    Obama sees this and says, Let's not just elect a president, let's build a movement than the status quo will be unable to resist. Let's get 60 or 70 percent of the people behind us, which we can only do by reaching out to Republicans rather than "fighting" them.

    And I think Obama's strategy is a lot more likely to result in actual "change." like universal health care or getting out of Iraq.
     
  17. PerfectlySexy

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    And a gripe of mine as well. Choosing a first name is often a means of denigration and, to me, signifies a lack of intelligence about an issue. For a fun fictional treatise on this issue see Blade Runner.

    Nothing rubs people the wrong way; most people just don't know him as he's a newcomer to the national stage. As a friend of mine astutely pointed out: just wait for the debates, it will be Nixon and Kennedy all over again. (note: I will be voting third party so this is not the opinion of an Obama supporter).
     
  18. Industrialsize

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    Dictated by Party Elites??? Obama won more states, primaries, caucuses, and votes........sounds like democracy and the People have spoken.
     
  19. ManlyBanisters

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    OK - Why do we need to be able to 'tell they are women'? Does it matter? Besides, I already know Rice is a woman. And, even if it did matter, if you use a last name when referring to a man how can you tell he is a man? Shouldn't you use his first name too? And what about unisex names? Should people called Lesley be barred from entering political life?

    Or - to be more blunt - that was a dumbass reply.

    Sorry, PA, I keep going OT in your thread - I'll stop now.
     
  20. Kassokilleri2ff

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    Hey hey now, I never said you have to tell they are women. I also said the other side which would be whatever it is that makes you angry about using the first name (women being lower in the social tier than men). So I said, one, maybe to help glorify the women, or two, to help notify they are women so you don't get to exited about it. Which is the truth? I don't know, thats why I said maybe someone should write an article about it!

    But I appreciate being called names, it makes me feel more mature.

    Also, its a mans world. We use a mans last name because hey, its always been a mans world, it was always assumed that anybody distinguished for any good reason would be a man.

    I see it as like black pride month or mexican pride day. Whte people dont get white pride day, because its a white mans world already. Its a mans world, so figurehead women are identified by thier first names instead, so that you know that a woman has had success in a mans world. I see it as showing thier pride.

    But as you see it, its a way to keep women down. So who's right? I don't know.
     
    #20 Kassokilleri2ff, Aug 27, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2008
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