Political violence on the streets of America?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Penis Aficionado, Aug 5, 2009.

  1. Penis Aficionado

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    Today I have been reading and watching coverage of the goons organized by the insurance industry to disrupt public meetings about health care reform between Democratic congressmen and their constituents. It happened just down the road from me with my own congressman, Lloyd Doggett.

    I've also noticed that mainstream, elected Republicans basically laugh about this and urge the goons to keep up the good work. Some of them also suggest that health care reform is a secret plot to euthanize old people or that President Obama is an illegal alien.

    Meanwhile Democratic officials by and large still talk of "educating their colleagues on the other side of the aisle" and refer to their opponents using the archaic mannerisms of a long-gone era ("I respectfully disagree with my esteemed colleague from Alabama," etc.).

    In short, the Republicans seem determined to stop health care reform -- at least the public option aspect -- by any means necessary, while the Democrats seem stunned by the intensity of these attacks and unsure of what to do.

    But I don't think that's true at the grassroots level. I'm sure I'm not the only American in favor of a public option who saw footage of the mostly middle-aged, mostly fat white men shouting down a Democratic congressman, and chuckled at the thought of rounding up some pals from the local union hall or biker bar and meeting verbal intimidation with physical intimidation.

    For the first time in my life I think there's a slim chance that we could see actual fighting in the streets over political principles in this country -- the kind of thing we're used to seeing in other countries and shaking our heads in disbelief that they could care so much.

    Anyone else think so?
     
  2. unabear09

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    I'm gonna get bitched out for this but....I really hope the American people get off their(our) fat asses and do SOMETHING! We need a great civil unrest. For too long now, we've essentually been bent over and anally raped by our government and big business. Its time we stand up in protest and tell our gov't and corporate america that we're not going to put up with their shit any more.

    Unfortunately, I fear as the Greatest Generation dies off, the voice of protest will cease to exist. The Baby Boomers lost their balls, and now roll over at the slightest showing of resistance. Gen X'ers don't seem to give a shit about much of anything, and then there is my generation... I've heard many older than me refer to us as the 'Next Greatest Generation.' It warms my heart and scares me at the same time. We've inherited such a burdon from generations past...I just pray we do have what it takes to turn this country (and our world) around and start doing things right for a change.
     
  3. Penis Aficionado

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    I hope so too. I don't think it has anything to do with generations.

    In my opinion, Baby Boomers, Gen-X, whatever you people in your 20s are called ... it's all the same thing. Those brought up with material abundance had time to cultivate a lot of radical, idealistic ideas when they were young. Then they had kids. Once you have kids, you see threats to your kids everywhere you look. And then all the ideals based on love of your fellow man or class solidarity or building a better world go out the window. Because you just want to keep your kids safe.
     
  4. B_Enough_for_Me

    B_Enough_for_Me New Member

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    1) I would love to see these stories about "organized goons." Cite your source because I know this is made up.

    2) It would be wonderful if it was simply as easy as health care reform = good and everything else = bad. It isn't. The Democrats insist on throwing money at a problem without even attempting to solve any of the underlying problems. On top of that public opinion is shifting against them, thus why you see moderate Democrats jumping ship.

    3) You won't see any fighting in the streets. That is absurd. You're telling me that the majority of people can't muster the motivation to drive to the polls and vote but they'd come out swinging if Obama can't push through his health care-pork bill? No. Nonsense.

    4) Insurance companies employ hundreds of thousands of people. They shouldn't get a say? Why? Because they are middle class whiteys? So, bikers (who are known for their genuine interest in health care reform) should beat up protesters? It always amazes me that Democrats can rationalize violence against those who they don't agree with, but can turn around and pray at the alter of tolerance.

    5) You are making the most basic of mistakes. Freud based a surprising amount of his work on this theory of projection. In essence, you are angry that the world isn't doing what your side says should be done, so you project that anger onto others. If you are mad then bar patrons and bikers must also be mad. Fact of the matter is, nobody really cares; most Americans don't want the government involved: CNSNews.com - Public Opinion Sours on Health Care Reform, Polls Show

    Finally, I would like to remind you of the Democrats in 2002-2003, when Bush was trying to push through Social Security reform. Even after he made an open plea with the Democrats to put out a plan and work with him they just simply refused to help in any way. When Bush mentioned that the government had failed to fix Social Security in his State of the Union Address the Democrats gave a standing ovation. Where were your biker friends then?
     
  5. Penis Aficionado

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  6. B_Enough_for_Me

    B_Enough_for_Me New Member

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  7. Penis Aficionado

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    That article doesn't say that the insurance industry is "organizing" opposition. It says that there is ideological opposition. I know for a fact that my opposition to the Obama plan is based exclusively on ideological grounds.

    Well, fine, I believe you. I didn't say that *you* were part of the organized opposition.


    Three separate polls show the American public doesn't want government health care.

    From that I conclude: 1) These are three totally fucking irrelevant polls, because no one is talking about "government health care" except as an OPTION that each individual is free to REJECT; and/or 2) the American public are a bunch of hypocritical morons unless they plan to reject Medicare when they turn 65.


    If you want to read horror stories look into the health care system of communist Russia.

    Communist Russia sucked at pretty much everything -- that's not news. But we suck at health care, even compared to the relatively socialistic Western European countries.


    Didn't you just complain about the right wingers doing this? But you'd still round up your buddies and go force people to your way of thinking with violence.

    No, I didn't and no I wouldn't. I posed the question of whether these right-wing tactics might be the harbinger of the kind of political violence that's foreign to at least two generations of Americans (the last example I can think of being the anti-busing riots of the early '70s).


    Nobody says that you have to buy insurance. Insurance is a service offered to those who want to purchase it. If you don't want it do something else. Hospitals have hard costs associated with treating people. Explain to me why a hospital, or insurance company, should have to eat the cost of putting you back together after a car accident? And, if they can turn a profit for their shareholders (think teachers union retirement fund) while still providing their services at a fair price why should they be stopped? Insurance is a step further. If I don't have enough money to pay for my health care in one lump some I can pay monthly fees for someone else to assume the risk that I may need care. If you take the profit out of it then there is absolutely no reason to perform that service. Additionally, there is a disincentive to be there; risk. That is a losing bet: I'll cover you at hard cost to me (which is $0 while you don't need care) then I'll pay out of pocket for your care when you need it. Further, there would be no reason to seek out clients, expand business, improve service or efficiency, or adopt new and better systems. I could go on forever about the faults of a no-profit world but the simple end to it is this: people don't care about others for long enough periods of time for socialism to be the answer.

    Blah service blah blah costs blah blah blah profit shareholders blah blah blah. My point stands: If someone is sick or dying, everything that can be done to help that person should be done. If you don't agree with that, there is something wrong with your soul.


    There has never been a time when health care was not a clusterfuck, ever.

    Maybe so. But right now we are really close to changing that. Yay President Obama! Boo giant corporations and Republicans who care more about profits than people's lives!


    Social Security is absolutely fucked. Not kinda fucked, or sorta fucked, but entirely and completely fucked.

    Can't really argue with that. But no one is suffering and dying RIGHT NOW because of flaws in the Social Security system. Therefore, fixing it can wait.
     
  8. Notaguru2

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    Not over this. The people you are seeing are paid actors - to disrupt these town hall meetings. They're hired by lobbying firms that represent big insurance. They are being unmasked everyday in the media. It will work well as a tool against the GOP in the midterm elections.

    I predict the GOP loses even more house and senate seats.

    If this moves away from protest and into violence by these fake demonstrators, then we have domestic terrorism taking place. After 9/11 we have tools to handle this type of thing. :wink:
     
  9. mynameisnobody

    mynameisnobody New Member

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    Curious. You chuckle at the thought of American politics degenerating to class and race warfare and blatant Brownshirt tactics -
    Do you chuckle at the thought of a Final Solution for your political foes, too?

    Later, you evince a peculiar delusion that your fantasies are in some sense idealistic -
    You seem to be very confused.
     
  10. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Well look at the people who are trying to make most issues about race? I mean, how many times do we have to hear Limbaugh, Beck or any of the rabid Obamaphobes refer to everything as "reverse racist"?

    The nomination of Sotomayor didn't have to become a racial issue. However, when certain people wouldn't ignore her "wise Latina" comment it became one.

    The CT Firefighter drama didn't have to become a racial issue either. However, when certain people who don't know the facts or the laws then try to paint it out as Affirmative Action and the laziness of black people that became one as well.

    Prop 8 didn't have to become a racial issue either. However, certain people did have to constantly harp on the high percentage of black voters who supported the bill and ignore the fact that they made up a small portion of the entire vote, never mind make up a small portion of the people who actually voted yes. Alas, THIS became a racial issue as well.

    I could go on, but I think my point is clear. Feeble minded people inadvertently make issues such as these about race based on their own ignorance and prejudices. That's because it's guaranteed to get a response and spark outrage. But it doesn't get to the heart of the matter because it exonerates those who are a different color, yet guilty of the same offense. Deep down, it always has and will continue to be an issue regarding social class. The rich vs. the poor. But we'd never see that because we're too busy calling each other a racist.
     
  11. B_Enough_for_Me

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    No, the news article says that the resistance to health care reform is based on ideology, not paid goons by the insurance industry. There has been nothing to prove the anti-reform protesters are paid by the insurance companies.

    No, they prove that Americans don't trust the government. We know how horrible and inefficient the government already is, and would rather take our chances with the free market.



    Nobody ever said that we should deny life saving services. Hospitals can't turn you away, they try to get what they can.

    I seriously busted up laughing when I read this. I can't think of one single thing the US government does that hasn't turned into a complete disaster. Nothing. If you think health care is expensive now wait till the government makes it an entitlement.

    Here's an interesting fact for you: those evil profits go to the retirement funds of unions. Yep, that evil profit is paying for teachers and plumbers across the nation to retire. Those same retirement funds get to elect board members at insurance companies and set the direction of the company. Further, if you think your buddy Obama is trying to stop insurance companies you're wrong. He wants to use tax dollars to ensure insurance company profits by eliminating the difficult to insure. You can be the $20,000,000 that insurance companies donated to the Democrats won't go to waste.
     
  12. HazelGod

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    I think we're way overdue a major bloodletting. Too much has happened since the end of the War of Northern Aggression came about.
     
  13. mikeyh9in

    mikeyh9in Active Member

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    They are paid goons for the health insurance industry... just follow the money ==>

    1. Health Insurance companies give money to freedomworks.org

    Freedomworks is run by Dick Armey and other republicans. They were also behind the tax day protests (remember those?)

    2. Freedomworks.org, spends money advertising, busing protesters from one congressman's townhall to another *with* instructions on how to disrupt the meetings (sit in the front rows, start shouting immediately, do not wait to be called on).

    So, you are right the insurance companies aren't paying the hired goons, they are using the thinly veiled organization called Freedomworks to do their dirty work.

    It is one thing to encourage discussion about issues -- Let talk about the facts of healthcare in America -- but there is one group in America that will not discuss facts and that is the republicans. They want the status quo.
     
  14. Penis Aficionado

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    The newspaper article I referred to says that, yes. The previous poster neatly sums up the evidence reported on MSNBC over the last two days that these "protesters" were organized and orchestrated by the insurance lobby.

    Only the brainwashed right-wing fringe believes this anymore. Most Americans believe that corporations can and do cause them more harm than the government ever could.

    But if YOU believe the government is horrible, and want to "take your chances with the free market," please have the courage of your convictions and provide your own electricity, water and wastewater disposal. Perform your own repairs to the roads and bridges you travel upon. And if someone assaults or rapes your wife, mother or daughter, don't be one of those losers who turns to the police like some helpless pussy. Seek redress for that crime through private means -- surely you will find the result more satisfactory.

    By the time you need life-saving services, you're already fucked. Health care is a right in a civilized society. And while hospitals can't literally "turn you away," they can and do treat the well-off and well-insured much differently than they treat the indigent.

    Funny that we're not all Brits, Confederates or Nazis then, isnt it?

    This is complete nonsense. The retirement funds of unions have been drying up faster than your mama's pussy for at least the last 30 years thanks to the Republican/corporate war on the middle class. And if you think retired teachers and plumbers "set the direction" of the big insurance companies, you are just straight fucking retarded.
     
    #14 Penis Aficionado, Aug 6, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
  15. B_Enough_for_Me

    B_Enough_for_Me New Member

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    That's nonsense. I just posted the proof (which you have none) that the Democrats received $20/million from insurance companies in the last election cycle. How do you dismiss all proof and reason to support an ignorant and improbable conclusion? I am sad you get to vote.
     
  16. faceking

    faceking Active Member

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    Your are mixing nationalized health care and health care reform, FWIW. I'm not a Republican, but side on being VEHEMENTLY against the former.
     
  17. Industrialsize

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    No Bill currently making it's way through congress proposes nationalized healthcare. You are mixing fact with fiction.
     
  18. faceking

    faceking Active Member

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    Negative, he threw out a blanket statement that the GOP was against health-care reform, when it's quite the opposite. The GOP is, however, against nationalized healthcare.

    It's a mix up of "thread abridging"... mulligans given to all.
     
  19. Industrialsize

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    So you agree that bills working through various committees are not "nationalized healthcare'?
     
  20. B_Enough_for_Me

    B_Enough_for_Me New Member

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    !!
     
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