Politically Correct - Gay bashing responses at work

[ballsaplenty2156]

Start looking for another job, one where you'll be better accepted and happier to be there.
Short of documenting all the "alleged" mistreatment and initiating a lawsuit, you'll be much better off finding a place of employment where you can be more relaxed and start anew.
Documenting an incident is much harder than just writing it down in your little book to present in court.
You must have people who witness the incident,and are willing to testify honestly, to the harassment. You have to show there are many incidences of this type of abuse and that management is aware and is condoning the abuse. You must realize that your own behavior must be exemplary and in accordance with accepted work performance, and that you did not provide outrageous behavior to attract the discrimination.
You must also prove damages, which can be impossible to prove if management is condoning your treatment. Your job will still be in jeopardy as in most states in this country, an employer has the right to dismiss you for any reason he feels justifiable. That can include; he didn't like your haircut, the color of your clothing, the look you gave him when he spoke to you, etc.
Seek legal advice but be prepared to seek other employment as well.
I wish you luck with this awful situation.

 

[Rikter8]

Or you could take a day hike around town writing his phone number on restroom walls, or all the other various pramks others have suggested. I'd work on getting a better job with a better company. Fuck 'em!
Dave

I'm thinking one large tube of axle grease in his tailpipe.
He wont know what's wrong until that baby warms up on the expressway.

I'm more masculine than effemminate, but it shouldn't matter either way.
Most people at my workplace, im sure by now, know my sexuality. Most avoid the topic, and some, like this character poke. I can handle the poking, and most of it I laugh off or With. It's the Needling like Manly had stated that gets old, and vendictive.

I'd also like to know the name of the law that states you can be fired for being a homosexual.

 

[FRE]

It helps to be very familiar with the Bible.

The Bible proscribes receiving interest on money. Everyone with a bank account is in violation. In fact, the bank even lends money from checking accounts. During the middle ages, for that reason, Christians were not permitted to receive interest on money which is why Christians could not be bankers. All the bankers were Jews.

The Bible also proscribes permitting two different kinds of animls to breed, but that did not keep mules from being popular in earlier times. Sowing a field with two different kinds of seeds is also proscribed, but is commonly done. Wearing a garment made from two different kinds of material is proscribed, but we all do it. Think of Jockey shorts with elastic bands, or cotton polyester blends. A disobedient child was to be put to death. A man cannot have sex with a woman who is having her period. A virgin who is raped is required to marry her attacker and the attacker is requirerd to pay her father the price for a bride. Orthodox Jews, for Biblical reasons, will not shave, except possibly with an electric shaver since they see that as being similar to using scissors, which is permitted by the Bible.

You might, before stating the above, ask how he determines which Biblical rules are binding and which are not, and point out the need to establish totally clear, objective, and understandable criteria if he is going to accuse others of violating Biblical proscriptions rather than selecting conveniently.

I have clear criteria. Jesus gave what is often refered to as the Summary of the Law, which basically is to love and respect God and to love and respect one's fellow human beings. The Ten Commandments are binding because it is impossible to violate them without violating the Summary of the Law. Any commands which are not supported by the Summary of the Law are not now binding, and it is questionable whether they were ever binding.

I also recommend the video, "For the Bible Tells Me So." You can, using the following link, watch the trailer and order the CD:

For the Bible Tells Me So

It will provide plenty of ammunition to debunk those who selectively quote the Bible to condemn same-sex relationships.

 

[B_Hickboy]

Anybody have any quick replies to co-workers that constantly take gay bashing antics to the line...but never cross, to get themselves in trouble?

I constantly hear "You know what the bible says"
"The bible says a man and a woman. Its black and white...no sheep, no dogs... no pigs and man."

"Little fags dancing around the queer bar"
etc etc are all comments I hear at work.

The problem is, pinning one comment on one person since he stays within the lines, just vague enough not to get himself in trouble.

How should a person reply to such a demon at work, and yet stay within the lines of corporate america?

Three words: "That's not cool." If they don't get my drift, I have a short speech prepared that lets them know where I stand, but I don't lecture people about it. Most companies have a policiy that prohibits racist, sexist, or homophobic speech. If the problem persists, I go to personnel about it.

 

[Guy-jin]

I'm thinking one large tube of axle grease in his tailpipe.
He wont know what's wrong until that baby warms up on the expressway.

I'm more masculine than effemminate, but it shouldn't matter either way.
Most people at my workplace, im sure by now, know my sexuality. Most avoid the topic, and some, like this character poke. I can handle the poking, and most of it I laugh off or With. It's the Needling like Manly had stated that gets old, and vendictive.

I'd also like to know the name of the law that states you can be fired for being a homosexual.

A lot of people don't recognize when they've crossed the line from friendly teasing to cruel jabbing. I don't know if that's the case with this person--he may just be a biggot. But he may just be ignorant as well. The first thing to do is directly and clearly tell him to stop it. If he won't stop it, it's time to go to HR and get it taken care of officially. That is harassment, and it's against the law.

Also, Phil Ayesho, let me flex my right to free speech for a second here: you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about. You just come off as a bigoted moron here. Shut up!

 

[FRE]

His response was 'can't you take a joke' - mine was 'no' and a direct conversation with his boss to ask him to cool it.

Another possible response would be, "Yes, I can take a joke, but I choose not to."

 

[ManlyBanisters]

Another possible response would be, "Yes, I can take a joke, but I choose not to."

Were you there? Did you hear the things he was saying to me that I was supposed to find funny?

No.

It is not a question of choice not to find something funny when somebody in your workplace, day in - day out, is 'joking' that you are a lesser human being because you are what you are - be that female, gay, Irish, black, disabled, male, white, American, whatever. There is a point where the repetition of the 'joke' becomes bullying. Bullying is not funny.

 

[FRE]

I'd rather the tormenter believe that I CHOOSE not to tollerate it rather than believe that I CANNOT tollerate it since choosing not to tollerate shows strength whereas being unable to tollerate it could, rightly or wrongly, be interpreted as weakness. I would not, under any circimstances, want to appear weak since that would give the tormenter more control and I want to be the one who is in control. I prefer to operate from a position of strength and be seen to be doing so.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

You always make this same argument, Phil - and you know in many ways I agree with it for one off comments, shit on the internet, yadayada - but then there are situations like this where the OP is being made to feel uncomfortable on what sounds like a regular basis and, for me, 'suck it up' is not a solution.

Actually, what I suggested was that they give just as good and just as harsh as they get... Exercise THEIR freedom of speech to make sure THEIR feelings are known.

Where Americans consistently fail to live up to their ideals is in the realm of allowing OTHERS the freedom they demand for themselves.
Almost all Americans , when polled, admit that they would willfully and cheerfully censor the speech of others.

Specifically... those things that offend them, personally.

This fundamental disconnect from ideals of liberty and respect for others is the primary culprit in ALL our societal ills.

People demanding a respect they are unwilling to offer others... people trying to foist THEIR political, religious or social perspectives on others.


The problem is this... the damage done thru litigating against other's freedoms is far far worse than the damage done by people not liking the way you live, or think, or act.

I'm guessing here, and please do correct me if I'm wrong, but are you a white middle class hetrosexual male in a white collar job / self employed? Have you as an adult ever been verbally, attacked, teased, bullied, goaded, needled for just being what you are? Have you ever had people make jibes at you on a daily basis simple for being who you are?

Well... almost... I am of mediterranean extraction... with dark olive complexion... such that moving to the midwest in 1970 resulted in being labled BOTH spic AND nigger ( the latter by white suburban kids who had never actually seen a black person in the flesh) I was also the only kid in the neighborhood who had long hair.

When I first moved there, in seventh grade, I was beaten up everyday for about 3 months...

EVERY SINGLE DAY....
by a group of about 6 local bullies.

Dad wanted to teach me to fight...not that he thought I could ever win against 6 guys... but so that it would COST them something....
I didn't want to BECOME like them to thwart them...


My mother suggested I just let them beat me up.
I said that was pretty much how it was going... but she explained that I had to let them do it without any response at all.... don't try to get away, don't resist, don't get upset or cry or act frustrated... that I had to act as if I didn't care at all what they did... as if it had no impact on me whatsoever.

"They bully and goad you because they are GETTING something out of it. If they don't get something out of it... if they don't get the satisfaction of hurting you, then it will seem like a lot of effort for nothing and they will stop."


Well... I tried that... and guess what? It worked like a charm... after four days of denying them what they wanted.... they stopped bothering me and they never bothered me again.

Ever since then I have had the wisdom to realize that when I am confronted by someone trying to get my goat... the BEST, the most effective response I can come up with is to deny them their objective.

Assholes in the workplace are easy to deal with... you simply deny them what they are after.

These jerks are trying to see if they can get the fag to pitch a hissy fit.
Getting lawyers involved will be hugely satisfying to their preconceptions...


As to other working experience... in my 20s I worked in the inner city of chicago with a bunch of black people who gave me no end of shit, every single day... for being a "peckerwood", a "whitey", a "honkey" and, most often, a "cracker".


Some of them did it because they thought it was funny... some of them because they resented me being there...some because they harbored a deep anger toward any white people...

But after being called out in the lunchroom for being a cracker... I responded by comparing my skin to that of the person calling me cracker...
I pointed out that I was nearly as dark as they were....

And the guy said I was right... that I was more of a graham cracker...

Everyone laughed... including me... and from that moment on, they called me graham cracker... but they did so with affection.




You see... human beings HAZE each other. They always have... and they always will.
Women don't do it the same way men do... but damn... the shit women put other women thru is shockingly harsh... even though it is so subtle most men don't even know its happening.

People in any established group do this to new people...to test you... to see if you have the stomach to run with their crowd...

The black co-workers who started out resenting me didn't KNOW me... they resented WHITE people. But I did not attack them in return... I did not act like they had no right to resent white people.

I gave them the respect of allowing them to feel the way they felt, and not judging them for it... I showed grace and humor and that I didn't take myself so seriously that I couldn't take a hard ribbing over being white in an otherwise all black environment.


Everyone remebers that the kid who caught it the worst was the kid who couldn't take it.

You want people to accept you in a new environment? DON'T BE THE KID WHO CAN'T TAKE IT.



If it comes to physical threats.... if people sabotage your work.... if people spread rumors about you that aren't true that may affect your career... if your boss give you all the shit work, treats you shabbily, or if you are denied raises and promotions or time off in anyway differently than your co-workers....
Then that's when you have a heart to heart with the boss. And failing that, a lawyer.


But asking the Dad to tell the other kids to stop being mean to you?
That is not gonna do your standing in the workplace any damn good.



I was in a company once where my boss did not like me much... and it showed...

Rather than go over his head to his boss with complaints... or whine about it... or see a lawyer...
I eagerly looked for any opportunity I could to save this guy's ass, professionally... to make him look like god to his boss.

We never became friends... but he came to value me, respect me, and admire my ability to do for him even though there was no real affinity.
He was they guy who got me a promotion... not because we were buds... but because I had proven he could trust me to back him up even in trying circumstances.



Sorry folks... I now its really trendy now to be all down on bullying and hazing and that is supposed to be some heineous sin...

But the alternative is to craft a "competition free" society in which everyone is special and everyone gets a trophy...
This is not how you build self esteem... its how you build self indulgence.

Life is competitive. Business is competitive.

We are all out there competing with each other for advantage, mates and money.


And we achieve what we acheive in CONCERT with groups of other people...
These groups are competing with other groups...

As technologically sophisticated and socially advanced as we imagine ourselves...this is all the exact same social structure as a stone age Tribe.
Clan, club, moiety, friendship, family.


Like communism... the idea of a politically correct world is a pretty idea that is founded in a belief about human nature that is simply not true.

If everyone is paid the same, regardless of effort... then productivity falls to the level of the slowest worker.


If every kid is given an trophy... then they have no idea how to compete, how to deal with losing, how to deal graciously with winning, and the world seems tragically unfair.


No matter what you do... human beings will haze each other. They will set up social gauntlets that you must run to be granted membership... or to be granted the status of enemy peer.


When confronted with this... cry in your pillow and the bully wins. Pitch a fit over their treatment of you and the bully wins... hire a lawyer and the bully may lose his job or get censured... but it will only make you look small to everyone else... and even though jobless or censured... the bully has the satisfaction of getting your goat.

The solution, as with so many things in life... is to figure out how to turn the tables on the bully in a way the EARNS respect... rather than litigates for people to fear you.



Any lawyer worth a shit will tell you... screw punching someone... Litigation is the most extreme form of aggression.

As when I was a kid... I will not stoop to becoming a bully to counter a bully.


Suing a guy for being a jackass only makes you look like a bigger jackass.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

The problem is, pinning one comment on one person since he stays within the lines, just vague enough not to get himself in trouble.

Harrassment at my workplace is defined as: repeated behavior or comments that leave the recipient feeling uncomfortable. If you're repeatedly feeling annoyed or uncomfortable at this person's comments, you're suffering harrassment no matter what anyone else thinks.

You've got to warn the person that the comments are unwelcome and ask them to stop immediately. If they don't stop, its time to go directly to management about it. Document everything. Make sure your own behavior is professional and non-antagonistic. My experience has been that management takes workplace sexual harrassment very seriously (because the organization can be sued if it fails to take action to stop it).

Good luck.

 

[canuck_pa]

When someone makes derogatory remarks that are not directed to just one person and is heard by a group of people, it is the same as saying them to each individual. In fact its a chicken way of harassing one individual. You have the right to not be harassed or feel threatened at work or anywhere. When it happens at work it effects your ability to do your job. Any reputable employer should protect his/her employees against harassment.

Find out how other people (preferably people you get along with) feel about his comments. If others also feel his comments are out-of-line, unwelcome, inappropriate, as a group you could ask him to stop. If that doesn't work start documenting his remarks include the location date and time. Include the names of everyone who witnessed it. Include any responses you may have said. Make sure you don't say anything inappropriate to him. Let him know his comments are inappropriate. You need to establish that you have asked him to stop.

Once you have established a pattern talk to you manager. Tell your manager you don't feel safe. If your manager does nothing go to hr. If you don't have an hr department go to your manager's manager.

If nothing is done to remedy the situation start looking for a new job. You don't want to work for someone who is not concerned about your well being.

Another option is to find out what your legal rights are (as well as documenting).

Good luck.

 

[canuck_pa]

Although I have never been harassed at work because of my sexual orientation I have over heard some offensive gay jokes. The jokes have never been said to me directly and when they have seen me they've stopped talking. When I finally decided to be openly gay the jokes stopped. I don't go out of my way to make sure people know I'm gay I just don't hide it.

 

[FRE]

One of the problems (and not necessarily the only problem) with Phil's approach to dealing with bullies is that not everyone would be able to use it. Should highly competent and productive people who are unable to use Phil's approach to deal with bullying have to change jobs? It is reasonable that some people who cannot deal with bullying should be driven to suicide? Should companies be deprived of the the services of a very excellent, productive, and competent employee just because he cannot tollerate bullying?

It seems to me that tollerating bullying would take us back to a more primitive past when beating children and wife abuse were acceptable, when street fighting was common, and when social status was determined by ability to intimidate.

We have read about the massacre at Columbine in which a kid who was constantly bullied reacted by using fire arms to kill fellow students. There have been many other cases in which bullying has produced similar results. We have also read about cases in which bullying resulted in suicide. Bullies have also escalated their bullying to the extent that serious injury and even killing have happened. It has also been shown that bullies often end up in court on criminal charges.

If Phil wants to use the approach he recommends, fine, but I do not recommend that others use it.

 

[killerb]

I once had a problem at work where this woman would constantly make remarks about how "boys are stupid"...usually whenever she has an issue with her boyfriend...this was in a predominately female office and she made those types of comments often...

anyway, I told her that it was offensive & that she shouldn't generalize just because HER boyfriend might be stupid....and the comments continued...

so I went to HR and reported it...I just gave examples & told them that I don't need to hear crap like that while I'm trying to work & they handled it...

the situation was resolved immediately...

 

[FRE]

I wonder how Phil would handle this problem.

Matilda, about 6 years old, was critically burned when she and some other kids were playing with matches. After she recovered, she was absolutely terrified whenever she even saw a match. The neighborhood kids "teased" her by showing her matches, whereupon she would become absolutely terrified and scream. Matilda's mother knew that it was happening, but didn't know what to do about it. The other parents in the neighbornood did nothing, except for my mother. This happened in about 1950.

My mother visited Matilda's mother and told her exactly what the two of them were going to do about it. They paid a visit to all the mothers in the neighbornood, and my mother told them what was happening and that it was totally unacceptable. Furthermore, she told them in no uncertain terms that they must speak to their children and see to it that they stop that behavior. It worked; Matilda had no more trouble. Often it takes only one or two people to speak up to stop abusive behavior.

The idea that nothing can be done about bullying is totally untrue. People in a position of influence and authority CAN cause the bullying to stop, and it is their responsibility to do so. That applies whether the people in a authority are parents, teachers, employers, or law enforcement officers.

When I was about 22, I lived for a year in a large boarding house while working full time and taking night classes. A kid, about 18 years old, was often bullied by the other kids in the boarding house. One evening, when I arrived after classes, 3 kids were roughing him up. I directed them to stop, whereupon one of them talked back to me. At that point, I totally snapped and do not remember what I did. However, whatever it was, it was highly effective because after that, the 3 bullies were afraid of me. I could have done plenty, because I was into weight lifting and had been taking judo lessons.

Those who find it entertaining to watch bullying and make no effort to stop it are just as guilty as the bullies themselves.

When I was in high school, I was constantly bullied, partly because I was smaller than the other kids. My sibblings had the same problem, but because our parents had a "blame the victim" attitude, we knew better than to tell them. I wanted to take up weight lifting, but my father, who didn't have a clue, saw no point in it and wouldn't let me. A few years later, when I was no longer under my parents' control, I did take up weight lifting and judo, although by that time there was no longer a problem with bullying. The change in my appearance greatly enhanced my self confidence. If I had been able to take up weight lifting and judo while in high school, I'd have been much better off.

Whether some people are willing to admit it or not, bullying can mark a kid for life. It can seriously undermine self confidence and make it difficult or impossible to trust other people. It is totally, completely, and entirely unacceptable and should not be permitted.

Mr. Harold Camping is or was the president of Family Radio, a "Christian" broadcasting service. Acccording to Mr. Camping, if a wife is physically or emotionally abused by her husband, regardless of how bad it is, or even if her life is actually in danger, she must not separate from her husband. Instead, she should become extra submissive and, in bed, become extra responsive so that her husband will realize what a wonderful wife he has at which point his behavior will improve. I think Phil would agree, but I hope that others would not.

Part of the issue is whether or not we want to live in a civilized society. Of course there is a limit to the extent to which we can control other people. However, making bullying and other abusive behavior socially unacceptable can go a long way towards stopping it.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

If you read my posts you would be able to predict how I would respond.

I never said don't do anything about it. In my life when confronted with it, I have always done something about it.

What I said was that a lot of things you CAN do about it are INEFFECTIVE in that they can make the situation worse.

Teasing is not the same as terrorizing.
Any child can be taught that to play upon another's fears is not nice.
Its part of teaching them empathy.

But when kids make fun of your name... which, let's face it, is not on the same level as scaring a kid who was burned with fire... whining about it and getting parents involved only makes the kids hate you more... more likely to tease you... the teasing more brutal.



But beyond that... We are NOT talking about a child. We are talking about adults. Adults who ought to have some other ammunition in their quiver than telling mom.

I can tell you that people who perpetrate lawsuits over their co-workers' behavoirs become pariahs at work.

It does not IMPROVE their social standing... it makes people LEARY of even speaking with them. ( unless, of course, its a REAL harassment situation in which a LOT of people have had the same experience. )

It does not look good on future job applications when they find you have a history of litigating against your boss or co-workers.

kinda like a history of restraining orders- I know a woman who LOVE to get restraining orders on guys who dump her or she dumps... she's gotten maybe ten of them over the years...
Imagine her surprise when she found out that civil service employers CHECK that kind of thing... and she is now unable to get a job because she simply looks like trouble... WHo the hell wants to hire a person who serially gets involved with guys she must restrain?


What I am trying to say is that Hazing and foilks being social assholes is not the same as someone actually doing damage to your ability to earn a living.
Its not the same as some boss linking raises and promotions to favors or dates.

A co-worker is NOT your boss.

And that just as human shave been hazing each other since we became human and before... people have also come up with effective strategies for stopping it... and winning the admiration and respect of your peers.


Lawyering up will PROBABLY stop co-workers from picking on you. It will also alienate you.

There are OTHER ways to address it... that work better and give you greater social standing.
I am not advocating 'taking it" nor "doing nothing".

I am advocating DOING the thing that actually works.

I have never had any trouble stopping this kind of thing is its tracks.
Its the easiest thing in the world to shut an asshole up in a public place.


And if they aren't really assholes... if they have any decency at all? Just ASK them to be more considerate, but do it in private.
Its amazing how often this is all it takes.


By the time you are 20... you shouldn't need your mommy to do it for you.

 

[bek2335]

Human beings are a mess.

 

[8.5x6]

I wonder how Phil would handle this problem.

Matilda, about 6 years old, was critically burned when she and some other kids were playing with matches. After she recovered, she was absolutely terrified whenever she even saw a match. The neighborhood kids "teased" her by showing her matches, whereupon she would become absolutely terrified and scream. Matilda's mother knew that it was happening, but didn't know what to do about it. The other parents in the neighbornood did nothing, except for my mother. This happened in about 1950.

My mother visited Matilda's mother and told her exactly what the two of them were going to do about it. They paid a visit to all the mothers in the neighbornood, and my mother told them what was happening and that it was totally unacceptable. Furthermore, she told them in no uncertain terms that they must speak to their children and see to it that they stop that behavior. It worked; Matilda had no more trouble. Often it takes only one or two people to speak up to stop abusive behavior.

The idea that nothing can be done about bullying is totally untrue. People in a position of influence and authority CAN cause the bullying to stop, and it is their responsibility to do so. That applies whether the people in a authority are parents, teachers, employers, or law enforcement officers.

When I was about 22, I lived for a year in a large boarding house while working full time and taking night classes. A kid, about 18 years old, was often bullied by the other kids in the boarding house. One evening, when I arrived after classes, 3 kids were roughing him up. I directed them to stop, whereupon one of them talked back to me. At that point, I totally snapped and do not remember what I did. However, whatever it was, it was highly effective because after that, the 3 bullies were afraid of me. I could have done plenty, because I was into weight lifting and had been taking judo lessons.

Those who find it entertaining to watch bullying and make no effort to stop it are just as guilty as the bullies themselves.

When I was in high school, I was constantly bullied, partly because I was smaller than the other kids. My sibblings had the same problem, but because our parents had a "blame the victim" attitude, we knew better than to tell them. I wanted to take up weight lifting, but my father, who didn't have a clue, saw no point in it and wouldn't let me. A few years later, when I was no longer under my parents' control, I did take up weight lifting and judo, although by that time there was no longer a problem with bullying. The change in my appearance greatly enhanced my self confidence. If I had been able to take up weight lifting and judo while in high school, I'd have been much better off.

Whether some people are willing to admit it or not, bullying can mark a kid for life. It can seriously undermine self confidence and make it difficult or impossible to trust other people. It is totally, completely, and entirely unacceptable and should not be permitted.

Mr. Harold Camping is or was the president of Family Radio, a "Christian" broadcasting service. Acccording to Mr. Camping, if a wife is physically or emotionally abused by her husband, regardless of how bad it is, or even if her life is actually in danger, she must not separate from her husband. Instead, she should become extra submissive and, in bed, become extra responsive so that her husband will realize what a wonderful wife he has at which point his behavior will improve. I think Phil would agree, but I hope that others would not.

Part of the issue is whether or not we want to live in a civilized society. Of course there is a limit to the extent to which we can control other people. However, making bullying and other abusive behavior socially unacceptable can go a long way towards stopping it.

The fact that you "snapped" and don't remember what you did, and that you could have resorted to physical violence to solve that kind of situation basically precludes you establishing any kind of moral high ground, IMO.

The fact that you "directed" one of them to stop, and that all he did was "talk back to you", and you "snapped" is a cause for concern.

The politically correct day and age we live in has created an "everyone gets a trophy" mentality where everyone's opinion is correct and valid, regardless of content or merit... and that's why you end up with lawsuits where BURGLARS are successfully suing homeowners because the homeowner "assaulted" them, while trying to detain them until the police arrived.

I would much rather live in an environment or a society, or work in a corporation that allowed members to freely and openly express their opinions without fear of reprisal. Of course, only as long as everyone has the same opportunity to speak and the same opportunity to express their opinions.

That's just my opinion... and I have always maintained that freedom of speech is absolute and inviolable.

As an employer where my ethnicity is native-Canadian, as an equal opportunity employer with staff from all backgrounds, if someone can prove to me that there is discrimination that prevents someone from doing their job or prevents them from having the same opportunities that everyone else does, I will deal with that situation.

If someone is complaining out of "personal opinion", I sit down with that person, and, with my lawyers, once it can be proven that there is no law being broken, decide whether or not it's time to part ways.

 

[FRE]

The kid who was being picked on actually ended up quitting his course work and returning to his home town. He was painfully shy and there was no way that he could have been expected to deal with the situation. No doubt the reason I reacted as I did was that I saw myself in his place because when I was in high school, I was constantly bullied. Fortunately, that problem ended with high school.

That was the only time in my life that I ever used physical means to deal with any situation, and it was almost half a century ago. I doubt that any other method would have been effective anyway.

Minor teasing is usually best ignored, or possibly treated with a sense of humor. But harrassment that makes it impossible to work or study effectively is another matter entirely. Also, freedom of speech is not without limits, the classical example being that one could be prosecuted for yelling "fire" in a crowded cinema, and rightly so. The question is exactly where to draw the line, and on that there will never be total agreement.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Everyone who favors "partial" censorship cites the "fire in a theater" scenario.

But no one who cites it actually knows what they are referring to.


During WWI a group of pacifists with a printing press were loudly protesting US involvement in the war.

Then Pres Wilson threw them in jail... without ANY charges... without ANY due process....... suspended habeus corpus for war protesters.... and decided that they would stay in jail for the duration of the war... without legal recourse.

Oliver Wendell Holmes.... one of the most over-rated justices in US history, essentially ruled that the needs of the War outweighed these citizen's rights to free speech, outweighed their rights to representation... to a fair trial... to face their accusers...
He denied these people every single right guaranteed by the constitution... and they had not even broken a single law.


He upheld their indefinite incarceration on the basis of anti war rhetoric being akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater.


Is that REALLY the kind of statement you want to endorse by citing the "fire" defense of censorship?

That a government can, at its own discretion, capriciously decide that some speech is simply too dangerous to have uttered and feel free to suspend your constitutional rights for a week... or for a century... ? Without you having committed a crime?



In truth you CAN NOT BE ARRESTED for yelling fire in a crowded theater.

Freedom of speech does not mean that you can not be held accountable for the CONSEQUENCES of your speech.

Incitement to riot is only a crime if your incitement RESULTS in riot.



But the PC movement of giving every weak kneed self obsessed sex fearing doofus the authority to determine how the normal people can interact with each other... that is sheer lunacy.

Working for a US corporation these days is like 1984... with Big Brother... the ministry of thought and the ministry of propaganda in full control.

We have taken control of the social setting away from the people who DO and handed it to the people who DON'T.


All in the name of some utopian vision of a world where everyone is perfectly nice and proper...
OR ELSE...


Humanity NEEDS the social structure that seem harsh to some members.

Its a survival gambit.
We are built hardwired to form clubs, cliques, clans, and corporations.

And strangers seeking to be a part of that have always had to go thru some kind of trial to p[rove they were worthy and able... and to give them that sense of accomplishment and belonging that comes from shared experience.


I shudder to think what kind of weak, pantywaist army we would have if soldiers had to be trained under the precepts of Pollitical Correctness.

For those of you who always feel like you are getting the shit end of the social stick... who get picked on because you simply can't seem to react in the way that garners acceptance...

Sorry... life is tough and it is not fair.

Social competition is not a PROBLEM... its part of what makes human civilization WORK...

And outlawing hazing has the exact same effect of outlawing drugs.

It doesn't stop it... it drives it underground where you can't keep an eye on it nor control it....

Hazing, like drugs, like prostitution, like anything people will do regardless of the law, becomes dangerous when we pretend it doesn't happen.

And no amount of wishing and pining and theorizing will change human nature.