Poll: Are Feminists Also Marxists?

[B_bxmuscle]

Marxism is an economic theory about the ownership of the means of production and the distribution of wealth. To my knowledge feminism is about the equality of opportunity between the sexes. The fusion of the two was only made by those who wished to paint the equality of women as communism, just to red bait.

I'd agree with a major qualification: Marx also wrote extensively about how a certain political economy becomes the foundations of ideological, cultural and other forms of social power. The most famous example is his "Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis-Bonaparte", which analyzed mid-19th century French ideological, political and cultural dynamics as ultimately derived from the evolving structures of French political economy. In "The North American Civil War" of 1861 he similarly discusses how the political economy of American slavery and the needs of the Southern slave oligarchy unpinned the whole of southern culture and American politics until industrialization began undermining Southern hegemony over the Union (remember, most of the presidents before Lincoln where from the slave-holder oligarchy); thus succession in 1861.

Some Feminists are attempting the same thing regarding power around gender, but their efforts are distorted by all kinds of baggage and lack of rigor (post-modernism for instance) that make their efforts fail.

 

[D_Davy_Downspout]

There are definitely schools of thought that there can never be true equality under a capitalist system because capitalism relies on oppression of some group, be it based on gender, race, or class, so there is likely more self-identified marxists in feminism's ranks...but that's not a bad thing.

 

[randomoniker]

I'm neither, but respect some of both.

This may be relevant. Marx's colleague Engels wrote something about the emergence of family structures and economic class structures.

The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State
Origins of the Family

 

[B_quiet_man]

That second wave feminism was heavily influenced by marxism is an objective fact. As a result, even today, many feminists are also marxists. However, even more feminists are completely ignorant of the marxist influence on their belief system.

Here is an excerpt on second wave feminism from wikipedia : -

Mid-twentieth century

French philosopher Simone de Beauvoir provided a Marxist solution and an existentialist view on many of the questions of feminism with the publication of Le Deuxième Sexe (The Second Sex) in 1949.[40] The book expressed feminists' sense of injustice

Feminism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

More information from wikipedia on the Marxist influenced feminist book, "The Second Sex".

The Second Sex (French: Le Deuxième Sexe, June 1949) is one of the best-known works of the French existentialist Simone de Beauvoir. It is a work on the treatment of women throughout history and often regarded as a major work of feminist philosophy and the starting point of second-wave feminism.

The Second Sex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My statement that second wave feminism was influenced by marxist thought is therefore not just my opinion, but a documented objective fact.

I hope this clears the matter up finally.

 

[hung9mike]

Almost. :wink: I will concede your point that feminism was influenced by Marxist thought. I suspect that many political movements have been on some level or another, using Marxist theory to argue against the economic and/or political system the movement feels oppresses its members. But you seem to be trying to infer something in the connection though. Are you suggesting that feminism is bad...?

My statement that second wave feminism was influenced by marxist thought is not therefore just my opinion, but a documented objective fact.

I hope this clears the matter up finally.

 

[aninnymouse]

Just because second wave feminism was influenced by Marxist thought, doesn't mean that the totality of the feminst movement is second wave feminism, or that the totality of the movement is Marxist.

God. Look at the totality of something, not just the little tip of what you want to see!

 

[B_quiet_man]

Almost. :wink: I will concede your point that feminism was influenced by Marxist thought. I suspect that many political movements have been on some level or another, using Marxist theory to argue against the economic and/or political system the movement feels oppresses its members. But you seem to be trying to infer something in the connection though. Are you suggesting that feminism is bad...?

Nothing I've stated in this thread infers that the connection is necessarily bad.

 

[B_quiet_man]

Just because second wave feminism was influenced by Marxist thought, doesn't mean that the totality of the feminst movement is second wave feminism, or that the totality of the movement is Marxist.

Second wave feminism is still very influencial, and has an enduring legacy in the lexicon and theory current feminists use, such as "patriarchy theory", "male privileged", and speaking of women as an "oppressed class", for example.

Many second wave feminist are still operating, notable examples being Gloria Steinem, Robin Morgan, and Germaine Greer. It's very wrong to think second wave feminism has gone away. The second wave dominates feminism as we understand it today.

 

[B_quiet_man]

I have been a feminist ever since I became socially aware. Steinhem was my role model, not Marx!

Steinhem operated in marxist groups before becoming well known as a feminist, btw.

 

[B_quiet_man]

Then I made the poll.

Then he backpedalled.

Then he came over here and called me names.

All because I made a poll to ask a question.

The poll, if anything, has proved me right. 33% of the feminists that have responded are indeed also marxists (as results stand at the time of writing).

So a significant number of the respondents have confirmed they are both marxists and feminists.

As I've demonstrated with links in posts above, the very beginning of second wave feminism is documented to be the publication of the Marxist book "The Second Sex" by Simone de Beauvoir.

Furthermore, I haven't done any backpedaling. My first statement (in a different thread) concerned how second wave feminism was heavily influenced by marxism. You didn't believe this. So I asked you if you had never noticed that many feminists were also marxists, thinking this would help persuade you. But you apparently had never realized this either, and so started this poll to attempt to prove me wrong. But it hadn't proved me wrong at all, quite the opposite.

Also, I was not "red baiting" (?) as you have attempted to claim. I was merely stating a documented fact - that second wave feminists were heavily influenced by Marxists, and applied marxist theory and methodology in order to achieve their aims. All other forms of modern feminism developed out of second wave feminism - through building on and referring to their literature, studies, and by using their lexicon and theory - hence the second wave approach and beliefs are still very much in effect.

This is not my "theory", it is a documented and objective fact. It seems you just don't like it though - I don't know why - so you don't want it to be true. It is, however, true, whether you like it or not.

 

[tamati]

Where/when was the first wave of feminism?

 

[B_quiet_man]

Where/when was the first wave of feminism?

suffragettes

 

[vlls]

Marxism is an economic theory about the ownership of the means of production and the distribution of wealth. To my knowledge feminism is about the equality of opportunity between the sexes. The fusion of the two was only made by those who wished to paint the equality of women as communism, just to red bait.

This idea of red baiting is incorrect. First, Marxism is not just an economic theory. It is a philosophical, economic, political and sociological theory. The fusion of marxism and feminism occurs on several levels i.e. epistemological, methodological, theoretical and is very complex and varies.

To say that the two theories do not have anything common except when attempts are made to red bait, points to a lack of understanding of social theory (Engels - Marx's partner in crime - makes use of the concept of "patriarchy" in "The Origins of the Family" and Marx himself talked about the oppression of women in capitalist societies). And one other thing I want to note here is that Marx's social critique was geared toward an understanding of capitalism and the VAST majority of his work is dedicated to this. Marx had very little to say about communism. Basically what I am trying to say is that when we borrow from Marx's theories, we are more interested in what he had to say about capitalism than what he had to say about communism and this stands true in feminist thought.

 

[The Dragon]

Where/when was the first wave of feminism?

Matriarchy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[B_quiet_man]

Where/when was the first wave of feminism?

Don't Listen to The Dragon, she's wrong or deliberate lying.

First-wave feminism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[B_quiet_man]

Basically what I am trying to say is that when we borrow from Marx's theories, we are more interested in what he had to say about capitalism than what he had to say about communism and this stands true in feminist thought.

Very good point.