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Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by D_Himey Longhood, Feb 18, 2009.
So if you were hanging out with the pope...having a drink with the guy; What would he talk about?
He would most likely talk about the old glory days of the Anschluss and how Jews knew their place back then. You do know that Ratzinger was a Hitler Youth and wears a brown shirt under his white robes, don't ya?
How he plans to turn the vatican church into the fourth reich?
Prada's new line.
Why did the Vatican ignore a moral imperative and not speak up when it was clear that the Holocaust was underway?
I think I know the answer, though.
Homoeroticism in italian Renaissance Sculpture & Frescoes
I'd want to know why the hell he brought back plenary indulgences?
Oh, oh I can answer that! :smile: Finally my degree in art history comes in handy online. :biggrin1: During the Renaissance it was believed that man was God's greatest creation. Therefore to show the glory of God it was just and right to show the male form in various artistic media. What better way to show appreciation for God's greatest creation than to show two men wrestling nude? Sure you can have one nude guy just standing there flexing. But to really get a look at the various veins, muscles and tendons it's easier just to have 2 men together.
Meh, not happening. The pope would never kick back with me.
I swallow :yikes:
If the pope came within twenty meters of me, one of us would catch on fire.
That is a lovely, splendid answer.
The only thing I would take issue with is your characterization of men "wrestling nude". Men do not "wrestle nude" in Renaissance art. Men wrestle nude in Greek art.
There is much homoeroticism to be found in Michelangelo, Da Vinci, Donatello, Titian, and later, Caravaggio.... but no "nude wrestling".
The homoeroticism in Renaissance art is a result of the (gay?) artist's vision. The beautiful sinew and muscle tone. The graceful body lines. There is a tacit love of men's bodies expressed in these frescoes and sculptures, a sublimated passion for the male form...
File:Michelangelos David.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
File:God2-Sistine Chapel.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"your bourbon and water... is it mixed with holy water?"
Anchovies~~are they suitable for framing?
Actually, that's not entirely true. There are three wrestling nude male bronzes in the Abbott-Guggenheim collection. All three of them show classical figures of Gauls wrestling with Romans in battle. Among popular subjects of the period are similar scenes and, of course, the notorious Laocoön Group sculptures which were very popular. One of the most famous nude wrestling groups of the Renaissance period is the engraving by Pollaiuolo, Battle of Naked Men. Another popular subject is Jacob Wrestling the Angel. This subject has been popular from the late Medieval to the present day.
Why he speaks out againt gays and dare dress like a drag queen.
^^Re: post #11..:no:..Support the blind!..:yell:.:smoker2::smokin:
Did Mary fake one for God? sorry, Holy Spirit? Does that count as a threesome?
How dare you show me up. Know-it-all!
p.s. "Battle of Naked Men" does not seem excessively "homoerotic" to me. Unless all naked guys are considered "homoerotic". There is no sexual frisson for me. No underlying sexual tension.
I wouldn't mind you accompanying me, though, on my next trip to the Getty (both of them). We'd have a blast sipping lattes (in the courtyard), then walking the rooms and gossiping & critiquing the High Renaissance.
Here's a work commonly described as homoerotic (even though it's subject is the death of a christian saint and martyr). "Saint Sebastian" by Venice-born Carlo Saraceni (painted around 1610, early baroque).
Notice the sensualized body image & graceful, yet masculine, repose. There does seem to be an implicit sensualization of the male form.
Yeah, no sexual frisson, but that may be simply a matter of modern western culture not appreciating the eroticism of the content in its original time period. I don't know for certain. However...
I can't stand coffee but would be happy to join you. I'd love to see the Getty.
It was easy for secular images to be labeled as pornographic throughout the medieval and renaissance periods. One of the ways of getting around these prohibitions was to paint Biblical scenes. Rather than, "young man masturbating," we have, "The Martyrdom of St. Sebastian." It does seem to me that there are an unusually high incidents of quasi-erotic situations in the Bible that became favorite subjects simply because they could be painted freely complete with erotic subtext.
We know that in Renaissance publications, erotic art was widely produced. Here's a picture from Raimondi's famous, The Positions. The title, as you might guess, refers exactly to what you think it does. These illustrations were not, however, something one could hang on the wall of one's home. Explicit erotic work was not something women, already naturally unfaithful and highly-sexed in the misogynistic mythology of the period, could be exposed to and so such books would be purchased, kept and read exclusively by men in private wank or possibly shared with a mistress for the sake of graphic instruction.
Natrually, given the domination of the Catholic church in this period, homosexual, or at least homoerotic art, had to be veiled in a way that allowed plausible deniability. Sure David could have had a loincloth or a fig leaf, but the subject matter's connection to the Bible makes such modesty unnecessary. Certainly much depended upon the culture in question. Northern Italian and most of France would allow such a thing, but in other places there would at least be strategically-placed drapery. Rules about such things often came and went with the relative protection the artist's patron could afford the artist and how well that patron got along with the local clergy. In very many cases, the Catholic church itself would commission such works though again, much depened on the actual person doing the commissioning. Some bishops and arch-bishops were more conservative than others, and naturally each had their own personal sexual preferences.