Pope Complicit in Sex Abuse Coverup

Discussion in 'Politics' started by B_quietguy, Mar 19, 2010.

  1. B_quietguy

    B_quietguy New Member

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    In this National Post article, Christopher Hitchens writes about how Pope Benedict moved priests accused of sexually abusing children from one parish to another.

    In 1979, an 11-year-old German boy identified as Wilfried F. was taken on a vacation trip to the mountains by a priest. After that, he was administered alcohol, locked in his bedroom, stripped naked and forced to suck the penis of his confessor. (Why do we limit ourselves to calling this sort of thing “abuse”?) The offending cleric was transferred from Essen to Munich for “therapy” by a decision of then-Archbishop Joseph Ratzinger, and assurances were given that he would no longer have children in his care. But it took no time for Ratzinger’s deputy, Vicar General Gerhard Gruber, to return him to “pastoral” work, where he soon enough resumed his career of sexual assault.

    Archbishop Joseph Ratzinger later became Pope Benedict.

    It is, of course, claimed, and it will no doubt later be partially un-claimed, that Ratzinger himself knew nothing of this second outrage. I quote, here, from the Rev. Thomas Doyle, a former employee of the Vatican Embassy in Washington and an early critic of the Catholic Church’s sloth in responding to child-rape allegations. “Nonsense,” he says. “Pope Benedict is a micromanager. He’s the old style. Anything like that would necessarily have been brought to his attention. Tell the vicar general to find a better line. What he’s trying to do, obviously, is protect the Pope.”

    The article goes on to say how the Pope threatened to excommunicate anybody who talked to the press or the police about sexual abuse by priests.
     
  2. midlifebear

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    It never ceases to make me sick at how many of these child molesters are: 1 Catholic, 2 Christian, and 3 Somehow protected by threats from the leaders of their church.

    I'm sure if I had pointed to my mormon Boy Scout Master when I was 12 years-old and said "He made me put my pee pee up his bum and then he did the same thing to me", that I would have been accused of all sorts of things, because my Scout Leader had a "pure spirit" and a long standing record as a "wonderful" Boy Scout Leader.

    The only retribution I was ever able to get was when this same asshole showed up at my father's memorial service. When it was his turn to shake make hand as I stood in line I rather joyously asked him in a loud voice, "Are you still sexually abusing young boys?" And I made sure I kept a great big smile on my face. He didn't stick around long. But I said it loud enough that plenty of antique mormons who are his neighbors clearly what I had asked.

    The current Pope's brother has a suspicious legacy running a boy's choir. How long will it be before anyone calls the Pope's brother on the carpet for diddling little boys.
     
  3. Jason

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    This specific case may well be new, but the wider issue is not. Joseph Ratzinger had a job within the RC church which included the role of dealing with priests against whom sex abuse claims had been made.

    The decision appears to be that the RC church as a matter of settled policy sought to treat these cases as internal matters. Typically the priests concerned were simply moved elsewhere. Sometimes the silence of the families of abused children was bought. The intention was to maintain the dignity of the priesthood, seeing this as more important than the harm caused to children. Joseph Ratzinger apparently played a substantial role in this policy.

    The actions of the RC church - and of Joseph Ratzinger - are illegal - in just about any nation, and certainly in Germany. His actions are crimes. If found guilty he could expect to spend the rest of his life in prison for covering up child abuse.

    The pope is scheduled to visit the UK this year. Sex abuses by RC priests in Ireland include abuses in Northern Ireland, and therefore within the UK. It appears that Joseph Ratzinger had responsibility for covering up some of these. It seems very likely that a request will be made through the Crown Prosecution Service that while Joseph Ratzinger is in the UK he should be arrested and put on trial for crimes he has committed against UK children by covering up the abuse of RC priests living in the UK.

    I cannot imagine how this would run. The norm is that we don't arrest visiting heads of state, but for crimes of this nature there may be a different view. Possibly the visit will simply be cancelled.
     
  4. B_quietguy

    B_quietguy New Member

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    The UK did arrest a former head of state, Augusto Pinochet of Chile. The UK was going to hand him over to judge Baltasar Garzon of Spain for crimes he committed in his own country.

    Personally, I'd really love to see the UK put the Pope on trial for conspiracy to commit child abuse. However, how much of case does the UK have against the Pope himself. You could make a much stronger case against individual priests and bishops who had a direct hand in deciding to move pedophile priests around.
     
  5. B_Mister Buildington

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    I find it ironic that a lot of people seem to think that they know better than the damn pope. Catholics consider him the ultimate moral authority- he had good reason for whatever he did.
     
  6. SilverTrain

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    Okay, this seals it. You just post outrageous things to inflame the membership here. I.e., trolling.

    Because no one who wasn't insane or bereft of morality would ever say something like you've just said.
     
  7. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Put that *!$@^ to pasture, ST.
    CLICK HERE TO END THE HEADACHES

    Another fine product from VB Pharmaceuticals, a subsidiary of HG Industries.
     
  8. houtx48

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    he had good reason for whatever he did.................maybe the old fuck, pope, was getting in the ass from some 16 yo choir boy too. red prada shoes indeed.
     
  9. Sergeant_Torpedo

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    There is a mistaken belief that the head of the Roamn Catholic church is a shepheard to the faithful. The reality he is a CEO of a multi-billion organization who will protect his executives, managers, and compromise his integrity. But the faithful are a weak kneed lot, they deserve what they get.
     
  10. midlifebear

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    Poor Mr. Buildington: He thinks his pope knows more about diddling little boys than anyone. And, he's probably correct. But not in the way Mr. B thinks.

    Mr. Buildington, you are such a fucking clueless tool. What's the problem? Were you also sexually abused by your priest when you where an alter boy? If so, there are plenty of folks here willing to help you find someone to talk to and work out that problem. No one should be going through life worried about being stigmatized by being molested by their priest, or any other adult-type authority.

    Of all things, your "ultimate authority" comment has to be the dumbest, if not just among the dumbest, things anyone has ever said in the history of LSPG. :mad:
     
    #10 midlifebear, Mar 19, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2010
  11. ZOS23xy

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    The Divine Intervention of choosing the Pope should not be misconstrued that God wants child molesters in the Priesthood. Of course NAMBLA might disagree.

    He should resign and go gracefully, write a confession and leave it at that.
     
  12. finsuptx

    finsuptx New Member

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    Of course he had his reasons: Coverup abuses, protect sex offenders, save face of an organization that has a millenia of attrocities to be ashamed of, and save his own ass. It's why they wear robes... hide evidence.

    In light of the global scandal now unfolding, I think the Pope and the Church owe an apollogy to the American people when they decried the scandals here as "bad Americans".
     
  13. Jason

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    In the words of The Westminster Confessionof Faith (1647):

    There is no other head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ: nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the Church against Christ, and all that is called God.
     
  14. swordfishME

    swordfishME Member

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    Forget that! I am almost expecting someone to come out of the woodwork and accuse the Holy Father of playing Daddy with them :eek:

    Jason: I really don't think that the UK or any other country would arrest THE POPE for anything, specially not in the UK where the head of the Anglican Church has much bigger skeletons in her family's closet.

    Could this actually lead to a Papal abdication!?
     
    #14 swordfishME, Mar 19, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2010
  15. D_Tully Tunnelrat

    D_Tully Tunnelrat New Member

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    It's beyond reprehensible! The saddest part for the victims is that they are often only about to come to terms with their shame, and embarrassment until their mid-forties, meaning there are still many, many cases which have not yet been reported.

    That the Church was allowed the legal right to treat these cases as internal affairs for so many years really exposes the dual standard that exists regarding the legal rights of tax exempt religious institutions and individuals. Obviously this is nothing new, (Spanish Inquisition), but the US trials, which the RC has consistently lost, are finally are illustrating, in fiscal terms, the moral bankruptcy that has long been winked at by the Church.

    I had the occasion to attend a dinner at a Seminary in the Central Valley many years ago, where I was the guest of that evening's speaker. After the speech we gathered again at the Bishops dining room where the spread was unbelievable. A true Henry the VIII style banquet spread with all kinds of meats, souffles, and veggies, as well as many cases of vintage Beaulieu California Cabernets. Everyone drank too much. Pretty soon, one of the priests made a pass at me. I politely deflected it. Upon getting up to use the bathroom, I passed several of the priests rooms, where you could clearly hear, and in one room partly glimpse the priests getting it on with each other. It was such a surreal bacchanal, it made scenes from the Village (NYC) in the 60's look tame, and trust me they were anything but. On our way back home, I relayed my observations to the speaker who was as dismayed as I. Needless to say, he never accepted any further speaking engagements from that Diocese. The Church has turned a blind eye to all forms of deviant sexual behavior for far too long, and now it's clear the permissiveness runs all the way to the top.
     
  16. dandelion

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    Surely this is a case of the new world coming into conflict with the old. The church has always been a separate authority running parallel to state governments, usually in some sort of mutual benefit partnership. Views on morality change over the years and those within the chuch now seem to be a bit behind the times compared with secular society, not just about this. Which is not to say that altar boys were the only ones having difficulties, because Im sure there was similar behaviour at the same time elsewhere.

    As a separate institution the church has always dealt with matters its own way. Brushing this sort of thing under the carpet was normal practice. I'm quite sure now that there was a paedophile teaching at a school I once went to, and the headmaster must have known it from the way he overreacted to something which seemed to me at the time totally innocent.

    The trend now is to lock people away. Traditionally the church is supposed to teach forgiveness. While its perfectly true they might be thinking quite a bit about their own reputation if anything became public, they are the people who forgive sins. That is pretty much the business model of the catholic church. One of their strongest principles is not to hand people in who have confessed something, and Im sure they will have heard much worse. In such a situation how would you discriminate between which people you hand over to the authorities?

    Catholic priests were forbidden to marry so that they could not form dynasties and pass on their power to their sons, but it hasn't helped with difficulties re sexual frustration. The recent TV show aout Henry VIII included a bit about Cardinal Wolsey and his mistress. I think i knew this already, but the point was that a cardinal having a mistress was not unusual. Nowadays that sort of relationship seems to be frowned upon, unfortunately. Im not sure what the position historically was on same sex partners.
     
    #16 dandelion, Mar 20, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2010
  17. Jason

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    I don't think the UK would arrest the pope. In general no country goes around arresting heads of state (though someone reminded me that we did arrest Pinochet), and there would be an enormous backlash were we to arrest the pope. But I do think it is quite likely that charges would be presented (by an individual or a group) which would have to be looked at by the Crown Prosecution Service who would decide whether there is indeed a case to be answered. They may well decide yes. That may lead to cancellation of the trip. I think a papal resignation is called a retirement - there is a debate in the RC Church about how a pope migt retire.

    The Queen as head of the Church of England and Defendor of the Faith has unblemished tenure in office. The Church of England has not covered up wrong doing by its clergy - indeed I suggest the spirit would be to ensure that they faced the music.
     
  18. Jason

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    Maybe - but I think it is also a debate at least as old as protestantism. The protestant churches protest what they see as abuses to Christianity by the church systems of the RC Church. The RCC has the idea of a group of priests ultimately responsible to the pope who are essential in order to get to heaven. You can't do it without them. At the top is the pope as heir to Peter and in the view of the RCC holding the keys of heaven and hell. Protestants assert instead the doctrine of the priesthood of all believers (everyone who believes is a priest) and personal responsibility for slavation. There is intense criticism of the role of the pope, whom many protestants see as actively evil - the man of perdition, the Antichrist. This is a fundamental statement of the Westminster Confession which is a bedrock document for protestants. Protestants in the presbyterian mold speak of the Church as "one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" and regard the RCC as neither Holy, Catholic nor Apostolic (which is why they insist on the name Roman Catholic, not Catholic). The RCC is perceived as a perversion of Christianity. The RCC's cover up of child abuse seems like a demonstration of the truth of this view.
     
  19. dandelion

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    I would be very loth to suggest the RC church was worse than any other christian church as regards how it treated sex offenders. Something might come out of the woodwork and bite you. Sexual abuses have been an allegation over the years which one group uses against another. Did Luther have an article about this when he nailed up his list of complaints? However... the RCs now seem to place a theoretical premium on chastity, and I see this as bad news waiting to happen.
     
  20. B_Mister Buildington

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    I knew that being an UNASHAMED Catholic wouldn't go over well on this board. You and the rest of the libtards need to get over your obvious bigotry toward people of faiths (and political opinions!) that you disagree with.
     
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