Pope's Aide calls UK "Third World"

Discussion in 'Politics' started by helgaleena, Sep 16, 2010.

  1. helgaleena

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    Walter Kasper, Top Pope Adviser, Calls UK 'Third World' :eek:

    What planet is the Vatican on? I only used this blog because it contains links to the Telegraph, Guardian, and other articles, including the original point of his remarks in Deutschland.

    Considering how many 'third world' nations are predominantly Catholic, should we believe old Kasper, and redefine the term?
     
  2. midlifebear

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    Well, if you've ever been stuck in Heathrow's International Layover Terminal, it IS the third world. This is a part of the UK very few Subjects of the Queen ever have to suffer. It's also why I go out of my way not to book world travel on British Airways (which, by the way, I've always preferred to fly) and go out of my way and pocket book to find direct flights to Paris, Barcelona, Madrid, etc., that bypass layovers for connecting flights in the UK.
     
    #2 midlifebear, Sep 16, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
  3. Drifterwood

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    I'm afraid that immigration and security concerns have made an awful lot of International travel a lot less pleasant. Have you tried travelling through the States as an "alien" recently?

    I am not quite sure what to make of his 3rd world comment, it could be racist, it could be insulting. His comment regarding the UK being "aggressively Atheist" is more telling IMO, but I don't just have the time now to say what I would like.

    OK. The CC seem to be on a campaign against Secularism, so I suppose that they need to try to be the victim. I know, the Catholic Church a victim. Just don't hold your breath for an apology.

    The thing is that the Pope is a very clever man, so what is he doing, this man who is protecting Holocaust deniers, protecting pedophiles, calling gays more prone to evil, saying that the use of condoms can lead to Aids rather than protect from it, forbidding women's choice in contraception, let alone abortion, opposing medical advances? etc etc etc

    For me, he is a man of doctrine rather than compassion. I think he has seen (in the turbulence of the 60's), that there is a move to interfaith harmony, because for many, doctrine doesn't matter at all, but shared human compassion does. Do we care about liturgies and stuff? no and the danger is that religions become homogenized. This is great for me and maybe you, but not great for Catholicism, because to us, it doesn't matter whether you are a Catholic, Muslim or anything else, what matters is that you have a common humanitarian compassion. This is why he has said that he does not care if Catholicism becomes a sect, (well I think we can see the crocodile tears there), but this may actually happen in the educated world.
     
    #3 Drifterwood, Sep 16, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
  4. midlifebear

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    I sympathize and agree, Drifterwood. Try traveling to the USA as a native born citizen, but gay and accompanied by your legal same-sex spouse born in Argentina who has paid the US State Department $175 and been issued a legal US Visa before arriving at Kennedy, but Homeland Absurdity agents can't agree where Argentina is on the world map and decide he must be a Mexican trying to enter the USA illegally. Oh, and then the "officials" can't understand him because he doesn't speak Spanish with a Dominican or Puerto Rican accent.

    And as for "third world" I gladly nominate my geographic home in the USA, northern Nevada, as a serious contender.

    For those traveling to the USA, I understand non citizens are now charged $17.95 for the trouble of checking if you're on Homeland Absurdity's "Warning! Warning! Will Robinson!" list?

    But compared to the luxo digs of Vatican City, we ALL live in the third world.

    ------

    Edit: Drifterwood, Your additions to the previous post are rather eloquent and I couldn't agree more with your observations.
     
    #4 midlifebear, Sep 16, 2010
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  5. helgaleena

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    #5 helgaleena, Sep 16, 2010
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  6. Jason

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    Agreed.

    But our (UK) media is giving him rave reviews. There have been hours and hours on BBC, total wipeout of all other news. In fact, is there anything else happening in the world today? And only aspects of the pope's visit which are adulatory are being reported. For example there was a demonstration against the pope in Edinburgh today, and I had to do a web search to confirm that it really had happened. It was led by the Rev Ian Paisley. In case anyone doesn't know he is a former MP and MEP, former head of the political party DUP and head of the Free Presbyterian Church. He's a colourful figure, very well known indeed, and IMO the BBC should jolly well have reported his protest. Not to do so looks like bias.

    The pope's church believes that only people who are members of that church and who take the sacraments administered by their priests can go to heaven - everyone else is going to hell. The priests and ultimately the pope hold the keys to heaven and to hell. The pope's church believes the dignity of the priesthood must be upheld even if this means covering up child rape and terrorist murder by priests (and they are still not co-operating fully with the police to stop child rape continuing). The pope's church has an irrational doctrinal fetish against condoms which condemns millions to poverty and AIDS, perhaps the single greatest source of evil in the world. I personally find it impossible to square the views and actions of the RC church with a gospel of love and the message of the Bible. I object very strongly to wall-to-wall media coverage of the pope's visit. :mad:
     
  7. superbot

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    Actually you're quite wrong.Firstly the Pope is being received well because he is an invited head of State to our country and it makes a change from the BBC's past anti Catholic bashing of recent years to actually for once be in tune with people other then those from Islington!!! The Vatican's refusal to endorse the use of condoms in Africa in particular would mean in many cases it would be condoning promiscurity,which no one would expect the Church to do.It's message is to practise safe sex by having the one partner and not many, ie monogamy.Again that's always been their message.As for your belief that those receiving the Church's sacraments go to heaven and the rest to go hell,where did you get imfo from? cos as I Catholic I've never once heard that put forward as Church doctrine.As for the media not showing that idiot Paisley,well isn't it obvious?...THE GUY IS A BIGOT!! and has enjoyed totally disproportionate media coverage over the years bearing in mind he represents a TINY number of people.It was very reassuring that His Holiness was received as well as he was largely from non Catholics,it shows that a great many people are able to make up their own opinions and not be part of this ghastly relentless cynicism from people who don't understand the Churches teaching and don't want to.Then, of course,there is always an off button on you're tv!
     
    #7 superbot, Sep 16, 2010
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  8. Victoria

    Victoria New Member

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    I'm curious , how is it possible someone that identifies as 100% gay can be supportive of a man that more or less scapegoated / blamed the child abuse scandal on "allowing homosexuals to be admitted into the priesthood"?

    How can you reconcile your belief system with your sexuality given that the head of your church dismisses you because of your sexuality as a pedophile and "evil"?


    Truly baffling .
     
    #8 Victoria, Sep 16, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
  9. superbot

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    Don't be so ridiculous there are plenty of gay Catholics,how insulting and narrow minded of you to say such a thing.The Pope has never citied gay people on a par with paedophiles.If you think that sex is the only consideration in a persons belief then you clearly need to do more research!
     
  10. Victoria

    Victoria New Member

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  11. BertGriffiths

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    LOL

    fuck him
     
  12. Joll

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    The 3rd World comment was apparently because of our 'multicultural society', so....a bit racist. :/

    I certainly won't be rolling out any carpet for the Pope, and I hope the Queen wears white just to piss him off. ;)
     
  13. Jason

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    Well of course I keep in mind that I may be wrong.

    But I feel I am on pretty firm ground when I say that condoms help prevent unwanted pregnancies and reduce the spread of AIDS. The extremes of poverty and the AIDS epidemic are both greatly increased by a failure to use condoms. Of course celibacy and monogamy would be effective, but there is little to support the idea that the majority of human beings are going to embrace these views.

    I also feel on pretty firm ground in pointing out that Roman Catholic teaching is that the "means of salvation" exist only within the Roman Catholic church (ie the sacraments). There has been some fudging of the edges of this with the idea that this refers to the "fullness" of the "means of salvation" and that a baby who dies before baptism may still find salvation. The modern source is "Lumen Gentium" (1964) though on this issue this merely restates earlier views. According to the Roman Catholic church the path to heaven is only through the sacraments administered by the priests of the Roman Catholic church.

    My point is that Paisley should be reported, not a comment on his views. Paisley has stated that his views are those of the "Westminster Confession" which is the bedrock document of all the protestant churches in the British Isles. This protestant document calls the pope "the man of perdition, the antichrist". The idea is that by claiming that salvation can only be achieved through the Roman Catholic church that church has usurped the role of Christ and therefore set itself against Christ. While it contains within it many good people, the organisation itself is fundamentally wrong, fundamentally corrupt. Paisley has a particlar way of expressing his views which readily leads to accusations of bigotry, but he is advancing a well-established theological view. He represents a significant constituency. He should be reported by the media.
     
  14. BJs4You IL

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    my experience of heathrow is what I imagine a 3rd world to be like...it has nothing to do with race or people who are different than am I. It has everything to do with chaos and no opportunity to attend to creature comforts lest you miss your next flight! having said that, i'm no cardinal kasper fan. but the Church has treated me well, so I have bones to pick with it.
     
  15. Joll

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    The Queen's opening comments to him were amusing:

    "The car you came in was very small, wasn't it? Quite a tight squeeze". Then, upon remembering he has his own transport, "You've brought your own car, haven't you? The Popemobile!". LOL. Can't decide if she was taking the piss or not...

    His speech seemed ok - decent of him to mention Livingstone, Wilberforce and Flo Nightingale. Also mentioned our role in standing upto the Nazis. There was still a little gibe about our multicultural society tho, and aggressive atheism.
     
  16. Freddie36

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    In defence of Superbot, the Catholic church has become an easy target. Especially in Europe. Partly because in secularised societies it has lost its teeth. What about widespread child abuse in other faith schools starting with horrifying stories in Madrasah (Islamic schools) ? Almost nothing is said on the subject... Let us be clear I am not trying to excuse or minimise any crimes here but put things in perspective. Journalists are very selective and take little risks. Whatever one's beliefs are , they also easily distort religious messages. Partly out of ignorance: who has a good knowledge of religious doctrine in secularised European countries?
     
    #16 Freddie36, Sep 17, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2010
  17. Jason

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    I think she was. And regarding one of your earlier posts Joll she was wearing a grey-beige outfit that comes out almost white in the photographs. :wink:
     
  18. Jason

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    I really don't think this is correct. The charge sheet against the RC church centres around the cover-up of paedophilia leading to very many acts of child rape and molestation which could have been prevented, and the opposition to condoms which leads directly to extreme third world poverty and the spread of AIDS. No secular organisation or nation state could get away with this. A company would have been dragged through the courts. A country which opposes condoms is subject to UN censure. My view is that the RC church is getting an amazingly easy ride at the hands of the media. It is putting forward views which if those of an indivdual would be almost unanimously condemned, yet the criticism is muted.

    I do take the point that some other religious groups seem to get an easy ride. Islam can react in such an extreme way to criticism that the media often seems wary of doing so. I'm thinking for example of the Danish cartoons about Mohammed which from a western perspective were harmless fun - yet what newspaper is now going to run a cartoon pointing fun at Mohammed? (I see there are plenty about the pope today, including one in The Guardian which struck me as hilarious).
     
  19. Joll

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    :tongue:
     
  20. englad

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    A gay catholic! Forgot that any human being could be so masochistic! Don't forget that what he means by sex with one partner is no sex before marriage, defined as one man, one woman, no one else (including gays) according to catholic doctrine, the homosexual inclination (i.e. being attracted to the same sex) is harmless but homosexuals should stay celibate for their entire lives, because it's a sin according to the vatican. The pope has also called it "a great moral evil", and that the inclination is "disordered" (going against all the geneticists' and pyschologists' opinions and findings).

    The main reason the vatican views condoms are sinful is they stop the conception of life, coupled with an extremely unhealthy view of anything sexual. As for your comments on non-catholics going to heaven, it's bullshit!

    EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALLUS - "outside the church, there is NO salvation!"
    You can only get to heaven with the help of intecessories, such as the priest and the church. That is why excommunication, means you are thrown out of church, and therefore damned!

    For further details of why so many people are pissed off with the pope, look at his attempts to block stem cell research, on the basis of superstition he wants to deny a groundbreaking new form of scientific research its chance to find new ways of curing currently incurable diseases.

    His opposition to abortion, under ANY circumstances, is extremely disheartening. And he has signed agreements with the most conservative muslim countries to block womens' rights in general. The vatican church also recently excommunicated a girl in Argentina for having an abortion, even though she was only nine years old and was raped by her step father.

    His backsliding on John Paul II's apology for the brutal christianisation of the native americans under spanish and portugese rule, aided and abetted by the catholic church is sickening, he said the native americans were "silently longing for christ"!

    He was the leader of the congregation for the doctrine of faith before becoming pope, that organisation is the DIRECT descendant of the inquistion.

    His tarring of atheists with hitler is wrong, he is merely doing this to avoid attention that Richard Williamson, a holocaust denying bishop was reintegrated back into the church after being excommunicated by the previous pope for the sake of "church unity". Btw, hitler said this about his anti semitism

    "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

    Any individual with this many terrible judgements, and abuse of power, and perversion of the course of justice, justifiably gets a lot of criticism. Your comments on the people criticising the pope as being confined to people from islington is also rubbish, it makes wonder what kind of britain you're talking about maybe the one around the 15th century??
     
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