Possible revolution in the Ukraine

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326807

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we live in a democracy.just because we're stupid enough to let millionaire politicians control us..is our fault for not demanding better. nothing like Ukraine.
 
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do you even know what a communist is? Vladimir Putin is.
 

Perados

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Lots of Lenin statues being torn down over there.
Not a single one has been torn down... (different to stalin, lenin is still a hero in ukrain. He freed them from the zar)

The revolution has nothing to do with comunism. Its about corruption, a system of unjustice, prosperity for all and the desition between europe and russia!

Neither janukowitsch nor putin are comunists... Both are autocrats, who support a system of oligarchs.
 
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Jason

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The UK press has reported three Lenin statues in three cities have been pulled down.

Lenin has quite a decent press in the former USSR - by contrast it's Stalin who was responsible for the greatest horrors. Pulling down Lenin statues appears to be a rejection not of communism but of the heritage of Soviet and Russian control over the Ukraine.
 

BigBoyUK

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I think there is confusion about what communism is. Communism is dead. North Korea is the only communist government left. Some are called communist, but they're not. They're just authoritarian states with capitalist systems. There is a difference.

Ukraine is not communist and neither is Putin or Russia.

Privately owned companies are importing and exporting with the rest of the world in these countries for private profit. This is not communism. If you go to any of these countries they are not communist countries. They're developing countries generally with extremely high growth rates and everything happening there is very much capitalism.

Things like cheap healthcare, employment protection, minimum wage, public transport and welfare when people are in bad times are not communism lol. With the Obama government, I wouldn't really say any of these are in place (although they would be in a worse state with the other party). He is definitely not a communist lol

If expensive healthcare, no employment protection, exploitative wages, no public transport, no welfare are how capitalism is defined then I would rather be communist!
 

Jason

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I think there is confusion about what communism is.

Yes.

The contention by some in the USA that Obama is somehow a socialist or a communist demonstrates a failure to understand what communism is. Curiously Obama and the Democrats are probably to the right of the UK Conservative party and to the right of almost all European conservatives. That actually pushes the Republicans way to the right. People in the UK look at Republican views on (say) gun ownership as a product of the lunatic right. Just about no one in the UK would advance such views.

Twentieth century communism, the sort that saw Marx as its guru and started with the 1917 Russian Revolution probably is dead. Is North Korea communist or a vision of hell? North Korea might be the consequence of communism but it is not in itself communist. However we do still have systems inspired by the basic tenets of Marxism in Russia, China and elsewhere. China has communism "with the Chinese dimension" - ie state-regulated capitalism. The UK's Labour party and the socialist parties of Europe are pedalling a watered-down communism in Euro-socialism. I think there is a problem with definitions. In UK terms we have the unacceptable face of Marxism (Sinn Fein), various hard left organisations (Respect) as well as entrenched socialism in SNP and PC, and a more moderate socialism in Labour. Labour probably isn't socialism on the road to communism but it isn't in my view an adequate rejection of the evils of communism. Labour still sings the "Red Flag", still harbours reds under the bed, has an in-built tendency to defend the indefensible.

In the Ukraine I don't think it is really west v east, or liberal democracy v communism, or Ukrainian language v Russian language. It's instead a reaction against corruption. Perhaps it's justice v corruption. There will be liberal democrats and communists on both sides.
 

Jason

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If expensive healthcare, no employment protection, exploitative wages, no public transport, no welfare are how capitalism is defined then I would rather be communist!

I saw back of beyond Russia in the late 1990s. I saw the frightened and traumatised people, the poverty, the hopelessness, the misery. Communism is an evil. It needs to be opposed and I cannot see any circumstances where it would be better to be a communist.
 

Jason

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Tomorrow (Wednesday) the people of the Western Ukrainian city of L'viv are going to stop speaking Ukrainian and speak only Russian. It's a gesture to make the point to the Russian east that Euromaidan is not about language or ethnicity. The only account I can find is here in Russian Завтра Львов будет разговаривать на русском языке в поддержку Востока и Юга Украины | 0629.com.ua - Новости Мариуполя

What a superb gesture! It's like the people of Vancouver speaking French for a day as a gesture towards French-speaking Quebec.
 

rbkwp

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related?

reminds me of when i walked into a Post Office, far North Scotland, mid 70s
the 3 people were speaking an unheard of to me Scottish Gaelic ( i supposed it was) i was confused and dumbfounded .. thought i had arrived on another planet?
even the young girl was conversing as such
lil ole Country Maori from NZ me ..