Power Dynamic In Relationships

[Nosuportneeded]

Relationships are kind of socialist to me: from each individual’s ability goes forth to each individual’s need. If one has more money or wisdom they share for the betterment of the relationship

However, when one party cannot sustain themselves independently, it creates an imbalance in the sense that they could be taken advantage of. They are at the mercy of the partner who provides the missing needs. This can lead to resentment or feelings of no choice

Likewise the partner who is self sufficient with a surplus to share, (be it emotional stability, security, material goods...) is at risk of being taken advantage of too. This can also lead to resentment or perhaps a sense of entitlement

These dynamics are dangerous to the harmony of a relationship, but often they are hard to avoid, and plenty of times it’s a balance of power that both are comfy with

It’s my feeling that if you think or know that you cannot do without someone and their help, you may be in trouble. Also if you see that in your partner, it can put you in a difficult decision making scenario

How do members here approach this kind of dynamic if they sense trouble? How do we keep ourselves in check and avoid trouble when it’s going well?

 

[Phil Ayesho]

well-
i had two long term relationships in which I supported the woman in my life.

They had the choice of pursuing a career, if they wanted- I worked at home and so, with my first wife, I was there to take care of the kids if she had wanted to sally forth and earn money.

Moreover- I made it clear in both relationships that they also had the option to do something they loved... outside of the home... without regard to how much money it earned, since I could comfortably support us both financially.

In both relationships, each chose to essentially be a housewife. There was nothing they had a passion for that they wanted to do more than hang around the house.

As a result, most of our social interactions were with people we met thru my career, most of the decisions that I was forced to make were centered around improving my (our) income and my career prospects. While I always included them in any financial decisions, and always took pains to ensure any need they expressed was addressed... nothing I could do seemed able to prevent the gradual buildup of resentment that so much of our lives centered around Me. My reputation. My career. My friends and associates.

Neither were willing to seriously pursue independent lives or even independent friendships. They would get involved in something like, day, horseback riding... and make a few friends... but then would lose interest and pretty much ignore those friendships.

Over time- their method of dealing with their resentments was to become alcoholics... and of course, things just devolved from there. Despite my attempts to seek counseling... despite temporary splits for them to dry out... despite my just accepting it and letting them drink themselves into stupors....despite my trying to make more time for us to get away, or buy them their dream car...
Both of them essentially decided that the reason they were miserable was me.

And yet- neither one wanted to leave. they were dependent on my providing for them... and so they just suffered along.
( none of this is to say I am in any measure perfect or easier to get along with than the average man... but i don't believe I ever asked them to suffer anything in me that was any worse than what they asked me to suffer in them )
Ultimately, I had to end both relationships because it became unbearable being hated for taking care of someone else's needs.


So- I sallied forth and eventually fell in love with a woman who, it turned out, had her OWN means... her own money.
Unfortunately, she had a whopping lot more money than me... and that meant that, to be with her, I would have to impoverish myself- shut down my business...lay off my staff... and live where She wanted to live- in luxurious circumstances, for sure, but in which there was no space for me to pursue my prior livelihood making large statues with apprentices.

So I re-invented my career to be with her- and took on only commissions I could execute digitally, so that all I needed from her was a room in which I could put my desk. While she certainly paid for the roof over my head and our food and most of our travel expenses... ( at her generous offer ) I was still earning all the money I needed to pay for my empty house 3 hours away- the Studio space I had down south storing all the equipment I couldn't use.

But my life was entirely under her control. We lived where she chose. I used the room she allowed. we traveled when and to where she wanted to go. If she had a need, i was expected to drop whatever I was doing and serve her needs.

And the joke she and others in her and my circle would make was that I was a "kept man".

And yet- I never once felt the slightest twinge of resentment over this situation. I was that much in love with her that I was happy to spend the rest of my life entirely serving her needs...

With my career so compromised by a lack of studio to work in- I had nearly no money of my own that was not earmarked for some bill I had to pay. Especially once my Son and daughter in law came back and took up residence in my house... where I had to help them financially to get back on their feet.
But all of this was invisible. She did not see my house bills getting paid. She did not see me paying for propane so my children could run the stove and furnace... didn't see the studio space 3 hours away that I had to keep paying for just to hold all my studio equipment- even though I could not use it to generate additional income.

It was a strange life... I lived in great luxury... but as a pauper.


Over a period of 6 years... she came to believe that I was with her for her money. I wrote up and signed a "pre-nup" without the nup... that basically ensured for her that I would never get anything, nor ask for anything.
I explained to her that if I cared about money i would never have shut down my business to run away with a woman who was not offering me any money.

But the Rich live in a world where the only people they feel they can trust are the people who have their own wealth... they see everyone without wealth as trying to take advantage in some way.
She fell in love with me because I didn't care about her money. Never resented her dominance in our lives.
We never really fought...
The closest to an argument I can think of was the day shortly before she asked me to leave when she told me I used too many paper towels. I told her I would happy to pay for all the paper towels, myself...
( i mostly used paper towels to clean up the kitchen counters after she had gotten mustard or other stuff all over them in making herself a sandwich.- frankly, i think the maid used most of them - and yes- there was a maid )


So what have I learned?
I don't know. Maybe I have a really poor woman picker.
Maybe I am too nice- bending over backwards to be whatever the woman in my life asks me to be- provider- support person...

Maybe my generation of women were poisoned by the myth of having it all and that men were to blame for everything wrong with their lives.

Maybe its as the OP suggests and the inequality of incomes and careers always creates problems.

But I have seen plenty of couples where both had active and promising careers and they, too, fell apart- over competing needs that neither could accommodate in the other... or because their careers just diverged in ways that made them strangers to one another.

I got no answers.

I have been single now for going on 3 years. That is the longest period of time I have been single since high school.
I dated for a year- but every woman I really felt any yearning for very soon was explaining to me what faults I needed to address for them.
So I gave up dating 2 years ago.

This is the longest period of time I have ever gone in my life without someone telling me I am wrong. Without being in trouble with someone for something I said, or didn't say, for something I did do, didn't do, or didn't do right.

I'm getting used to just being able to feel sufficient, in and of myself.

 

[Nosuportneeded]

well-
i had two long term relationships in which I supported the woman in my life.

They had the choice of pursuing a career, if they wanted- I worked at home and so, with my first wife, I was there to take care of the kids if she had wanted to sally forth and earn money.

Moreover- I made it clear in both relationships that they also had the option to do something they loved... outside of the home... without regard to how much money it earned, since I could comfortably support us both financially.

In both relationships, each chose to essentially be a housewife. There was nothing they had a passion for that they wanted to do more than hang around the house.

As a result, most of our social interactions were with people we met thru my career, most of the decisions that I was forced to make were centered around improving my (our) income and my career prospects. While I always included them in any financial decisions, and always took pains to ensure any need they expressed was addressed... nothing I could do seemed able to prevent the gradual buildup of resentment that so much of our lives centered around Me. My reputation. My career. My friends and associates.

Neither were willing to seriously pursue independent lives or even independent friendships. They would get involved in something like, day, horseback riding... and make a few friends... but then would lose interest and pretty much ignore those friendships.

Over time- their method of dealing with their resentments was to become alcoholics... and of course, things just devolved from there. Despite my attempts to seek counseling... despite temporary splits for them to dry out... despite my just accepting it and letting them drink themselves into stupors....despite my trying to make more time for us to get away, or buy them their dream car...
Both of them essentially decided that the reason they were miserable was me.

And yet- neither one wanted to leave. they were dependent on my providing for them... and so they just suffered along.
( none of this is to say I am in any measure perfect or easier to get along with than the average man... but i don't believe I ever asked them to suffer anything in me that was any worse than what they asked me to suffer in them )
Ultimately, I had to end both relationships because it became unbearable being hated for taking care of someone else's needs.


So- I sallied forth and eventually fell in love with a woman who, it turned out, had her OWN means... her own money.
Unfortunately, she had a whopping lot more money than me... and that meant that, to be with her, I would have to impoverish myself- shut down my business...lay off my staff... and live where She wanted to live- in luxurious circumstances, for sure, but in which there was no space for me to pursue my prior livelihood making large statues with apprentices.

So I re-invented my career to be with her- and took on only commissions I could execute digitally, so that all I needed from her was a room in which I could put my desk. While she certainly paid for the roof over my head and our food and most of our travel expenses... ( at her generous offer ) I was still earning all the money I needed to pay for my empty house 3 hours away- the Studio space I had down south storing all the equipment I couldn't use.

But my life was entirely under her control. We lived where she chose. I used the room she allowed. we traveled when and to where she wanted to go. If she had a need, i was expected to drop whatever I was doing and serve her needs.

And the joke she and others in her and my circle would make was that I was a "kept man".

And yet- I never once felt the slightest twinge of resentment over this situation. I was that much in love with her that I was happy to spend the rest of my life entirely serving her needs...

With my career so compromised by a lack of studio to work in- I had nearly no money of my own that was not earmarked for some bill I had to pay. Especially once my Son and daughter in law came back and took up residence in my house... where I had to help them financially to get back on their feet.
But all of this was invisible. She did not see my house bills getting paid. She did not see me paying for propane so my children could run the stove and furnace... didn't see the studio space 3 hours away that I had to keep paying for just to hold all my studio equipment- even though I could not use it to generate additional income.

It was a strange life... I lived in great luxury... but as a pauper.


Over a period of 6 years... she came to believe that I was with her for her money. I wrote up and signed a "pre-nup" without the nup... that basically ensured for her that I would never get anything, nor ask for anything.
I explained to her that if I cared about money i would never have shut down my business to run away with a woman who was not offering me any money.

But the Rich live in a world where the only people they feel they can trust are the people who have their own wealth... they see everyone without wealth as trying to take advantage in some way.
She fell in love with me because I didn't care about her money. Never resented her dominance in our lives.
We never really fought...
The closest to an argument I can think of was the day shortly before she asked me to leave when she told me I used too many paper towels. I told her I would happy to pay for all the paper towels, myself...
( i mostly used paper towels to clean up the kitchen counters after she had gotten mustard or other stuff all over them in making herself a sandwich.- frankly, i think the maid used most of them - and yes- there was a maid )


So what have I learned?
I don't know. Maybe I have a really poor woman picker.
Maybe I am too nice- bending over backwards to be whatever the woman in my life asks me to be- provider- support person...

Maybe my generation of women were poisoned by the myth of having it all and that men were to blame for everything wrong with their lives.

Maybe its as the OP suggests and the inequality of incomes and careers always creates problems.

But I have seen plenty of couples where both had active and promising careers and they, too, fell apart- over competing needs that neither could accommodate in the other... or because their careers just diverged in ways that made them strangers to one another.

I got no answers.

I have been single now for going on 3 years. That is the longest period of time I have been single since high school.
I dated for a year- but every woman I really felt any yearning for very soon was explaining to me what faults I needed to address for them.
So I gave up dating 2 years ago.

This is the longest period of time I have ever gone in my life without someone telling me I am wrong. Without being in trouble with someone for something I said, or didn't say, for something I did do, didn't do, or didn't do right.

I'm getting used to just being able to feel sufficient, in and of myself.

Thanks. Interesting tale. Sounds like a take on what I was discussing

I think for me, I struggle a bit with balancing my feelings of generosity (I have little to give, but more than many) with a feeling of hey what am I getting out of this? Or is this person sacrificing too? What can they share if they don’t have it to share?

 

[Lee_M]

I think it comes down to 2 things, first being that not everyone has the same amount to give, so where someone might give more financially , the other might give me emotionally. It doesn't always have to be apples for apples, so to speak. Just as long as both parties are contributing something positive to the relationship.

And secondly, always be thankful for what your partner is contributing, however much it may be, because when you stop being thankful, and start taking it for granted, well that's when the problems and resentment starts.

 

[deleted1846971]

I believe you’re over complicating it. If you feel taken advantage of in a relationship discuss it. If you’re unhappy with the outcome of said discussion end the relationship. If you both have a “team goal” in mind then you should both be working toward that end.

I’ve found that if the feeling of being taken advantage of arises there are other issues at play.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

I believe you’re over complicating it. If you feel taken advantage of in a relationship discuss it. If you’re unhappy with the outcome of said discussion end the relationship. If you both have a “team goal” in mind then you should both be working toward that end.

I’ve found that if the feeling of being taken advantage of arises there are other issues at play.

I never once felt 'taken advantage of'-

When I supported the women in my life I just saw it as the role I had agreed to play.
And when I lived with the wealthy woman and had to effectively be her support person, I simply felt that I knew that was the role when I chose to be with her... that my needs would be subordinate to hers.

I never felt resentment.

But I have had the experience of women who I worked like a dog to support tell me THEY felt taken advantage of- BY the fact that I had to work hard to support them.

And I have had a woman tell me she felt I was taking advantage of her wealth because she felt like she was supporting me- even though she actually wasn't.

I loved these women. I would have stayed with any one of them my entire life, if only they had it in them to keep their regard for me.

When I demonstrated drive and ambition... the women who lacked it resented me for it.
When being with the woman i loved meant i had to give up my ambition and serve her's...she resented me for not having ambitions.


was it just the women I chose?
Could I have behaved differently?

Had I found a woman who had her own ambitions... that could accommodate my own... perhaps neither of us would have had to work quite as hard and we could have spent time vacationing together...
Or perhaps either of us would have been forced to make career choices that drove us apart.


Personally, I think the late 20th century poisoned a lots of women's minds toward men, and relationship. Filled their heads with outrages and resentment and the tendency to find fault with men in every respect.

I tried everything I could think of.... and I never found a path I could walk with any woman of my generation in which I could know I was on safe ground.

Or, at least... the women who are drawn to a man like me- who is willing to bend to fit their desires- tend to resent their men for that very trait...?

 

[Nosuportneeded]

I think it comes down to 2 things, first being that not everyone has the same amount to give, so where someone might give more financially , the other might give me emotionally. It doesn't always have to be apples for apples, so to speak. Just as long as both parties are contributing something positive to the relationship.

And secondly, always be thankful for what your partner is contributing, however much it may be, because when you stop being thankful, and start taking it for granted, well that's when the problems and resentment starts.

Ok. So. I know that I’m too independent, and I don’t let people in to help as much as I could

I know I’m a little paranoid from a shitty relationship where I sacrificed what I wanted a little too much

In my current ‘ship I am older, wiser, better paid, more emotionally stable, and more capable with more resources in general. It’s just how it is I get that. It can’t be fair

I guess I feel entitlement creeping in, because I ask so little, I feel resentment if I don’t get it

I believe you’re over complicating it. If you feel taken advantage of in a relationship discuss it. If you’re unhappy with the outcome of said discussion end the relationship. If you both have a “team goal” in mind then you should both be working toward that end.

I’ve found that if the feeling of being taken advantage of arises there are other issues at play.

So yeah, I’m discussing it. Not sure if I’m happy with the outcome. Don’t know if I’m being unreasonable or not. More to discuss. Hard questions with hard outcomes

 

[Lee_M]

Ok. So. I know that I’m too independent, and I don’t let people in to help as much as I could

I know I’m a little paranoid from a shitty relationship where I sacrificed what I wanted a little too much

In my current ‘ship I am older, wiser, better paid, more emotionally stable, and more capable with more resources in general. It’s just how it is I get that. It can’t be fair

I guess I feel entitlement creeping in, because I ask so little, I feel resentment if I don’t get it

Maybe she is taking advantage of you, I don't know, but weigh up what she is brining to the relationship , and if it isn't enough for you then get out now.

But be fair and remember she may not bring exactly the same things as you. Whilst you have age, wisdom etc, maybe her contribution is youth energy, fun etc.

 

[Nosuportneeded]

Maybe she is taking advantage of you, I don't know, but weigh up what she is brining to the relationship , and if it isn't enough for you then get out now.

But be fair and remember she may not bring exactly the same things as you. Whilst you have age, wisdom etc, maybe her contribution is youth energy, fun etc.

Yeah I reread that and I sound like an ass. Go figure

She brings so much of what you mention and more. I’m probably just brooding because I don’t ask for what I want enough

 

[ohiorod]

Yeah I reread that and I sound like an ass. Go figure

She brings so much of what you mention and more. I’m probably just brooding because I don’t ask for what I want enough

Just remember that good ole communication is often the key to solving many of our problems and conflicts. Ongoing communication will lead to a much happier and stronger relationship.