Praying for Obama's Defeat

Discussion in 'Politics' started by B_Nick4444, Jun 20, 2008.

  1. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    Evidently, not just centrist and conservative Americans are leery of Obama

    Why Iraqis Back McCain
    June 17, 2008; Page A21


    However it turns out for John McCain this fall -- and so far he's running his general election campaign the way Gen. Ricardo Sanchez ran counterinsurgency ops -- the Arizona Republican is sure to carry at least one battleground state by a landslide. That state is called Iraq.
    Last week, the Pew Research Center released the results of a survey of more than 24,000 people in 24 countries. Result: From Japan to Tanzania to Germany to Russia, the world has "more confidence" in Barack Obama than in his Republican rival to "do the right thing regarding world affairs."
    But Pew did not poll Iraqis, whose opinions about the choice America makes should weigh at least as heavily with us as the collective wisdom of, say, Brazil. Whom would they prefer as the next U.S. president?
    [​IMG]Associated Press Constraints of time and money being what they are, I have not gotten round to phoning 1,000 Iraqis to get their views on Obama-McCain. But I did sit down last week with four key provincial Iraqi leaders, Sunnis and Shiites, who -- without actually endorsing Mr. McCain -- made their views abundantly clear.
    "The Iraqis are really fearful about some of the positions the Democratic Party has adopted," says Sheik Ahmed Abu Rishah. "If the Democrats win, they will be withdrawing their forces in a very rapid manner."
    Mamoun Sami Rashid al-Awani, the governor of Anbar province, agrees. "We have over a million casualties, thousands of houses destroyed," he says. "Are we going to tell [Iraqis] that the game is over? That the Americans are pulling out?"
    Messrs. Abu Rishah and Awani, both Sunni, have possibly the toughest political jobs on the planet. Sheik Abu Rishah inherited the leadership of the Iraq Awakening movement when his brother was killed by al Qaeda last September. Gov. Awani's immediate predecessor was kidnapped and killed by insurgents, and he has survived more than a score of assassination attempts.
    Today, the governor speaks with a mixture of confidence and foreboding. He insists al Qaeda has been vanquished. But, he adds, "Iraq is in a strategic location and has huge resources. There are a lot of eyes on Iraq." Later in the conversation, he makes his point more precisely. "Liberating Iraq is a very good dish. And now you are going to hand it over to Iran?"
    A sense of incredulity hangs over the way Iraqis see the U.S. political debate taking shape. The governor tells a moving story about their visit to Walter Reed hospital, where they were surprised to find smiles on the faces of GIs who had lost limbs. "The smile is because they feel they have accomplished something for the American people."
    But the Iraqis came away with a different impression in Chicago, where they had hoped to meet with Mr. Obama but ended up talking to a staff aide. "We noticed there was a concentration on the negatives," the governor recalls. "The Democrat kept saying that Americans have committed a lot of mistakes. Yes, that's true, but why don't you concentrate on what the Americans have achieved in Iraq?"
    The Iraqis are even more incredulous about Mr. Obama's willingness to negotiate with Iran, which they see as a predatory regime. "Do you Americans forget what the Iranians did to your embassy?" asks the governor. "Don't you know that Ahmadinejad was one of [the hostage takers]?"
    Here Hussein Ali al-Shalan, a Shiite from Diwaniyah in southern Iraq, offers a view. "For a long time, Iran has felt like Iraq is theirs. Our fear [about U.S. negotiations with Iran] is, you will be giving them something that we believe would prolong our agony. We are not against Iran. We have to coexist and work toward our mutual interests. The question is, is this possible at this stage? That's why we need the army to give a final push so the Iraqis can feel the fruits of our democracy."
    It's not just Iran. "There is no other country that supports us," says Gov. Awani. "What is happening in Iraq scares everyone," by which he means the neighboring autocracies that have something to fear from a successful democratic model in their midst.
    That only makes America's ambivalence toward its democratic creation that much stranger to the Iraqis. Will the next administration abandon both its principles and its friends in the region? For what?
    The administration and the Iraqi government are now wrangling over a status-of-forces agreement -- evidence that Iraq has reached a point where it can once again act like a sovereign nation. But the Iraqis leave no doubt that they want a deal, not least "so Iraq would be able to protect U.S. interests in the region," as Sheik Abu Rishah puts it. Having lost 4,100 Americans for Iraq, the Iraqis are offering to return the sacrifice -- assuming only that the alliance endures.
    Throughout our interview, the men did not stop fingering their prayer beads, as if their future hinges on their ability to make their case to the American public. They're right: It does. Which is why Iraq, all but alone among the nations, will be praying for a McCain victory on the first Tuesday in November.
     
  2. ThisSpace4Rent

    ThisSpace4Rent New Member

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    'nuff said.
     
  3. D_Juan_Grande

    D_Juan_Grande Account Disabled

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    All I will say is that any of them have to be beter than bush, the clown
     
  4. Rommette

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    I'm not an Obama fan anyway
     
  5. unabear09

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    OK...I didn't read all of your post...but here's my thing. If the Iraqis are wanting to have a successful democratic country, and the US out of the Middle East, then THEY NEED TO PULL THEIR HEADS OUT OF THEIR ASSES! If these religious screw balls (the Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds) would stop trying to be self rightous, holiler than thou, and stop sending in assholes to blow everyone up, and put half of the energy they expend into trying to kill everyone, into trying to unite the country and bring peace, then there will be peace. The US can't keep their presence over there for the next 100 years trying to play peace keepers, when the radicals in the country don't want peace. If the people who went out and voted in elections and really want peace and harmony in their country would get off of their asses, grow some balls, and stand up to these fucktards that are killing their own people, then a free, democratic Iraq is possible. From what I see though, the people are too scared (and understandably so) to get up and do something to change their world, and are too dependant on the US to do everything for them.


    I have no problem with us staying in Iraq, if the citizens of Iraq get up and take a stand against these religious fanatics. I think we should be there to give support, train, and help rebuild Iraq (along with other countries of the world) , but if the citizens are not willing to work to get there country back in order, we should pull out and let them continue to self distruct.
     
  6. mista geechee

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    Well I doubt it really matters what Iraqis think about our election. It wouldn't be to smart to stay over there and keep burning precious money because they need someone to hold their hand.
     
  7. D_Kaye Throttlebottom

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    If I go to Iraq in the next couple of months - I'll go out and do a survey with pictures of Obama and McCain and ask what "Iraqis" think. I'm sure Iraqicitizens give a toss one way or the other about our elections.
     
  8. Skull Mason

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    I have a very good friend in the marines who has done two tours in Iraq and now that he is in the reserves he is going back. He tells me all the soldiers over there laugh at obama and think of him as a stooge. I guess being on the frontlines of a war, whether justified or not, allows you to see through someone's bullshit. And I am not saying that obama won't be good for this country, just pointing out how the soldiers, that everyone wants to bring home and therefore vote for obama, think.
     
  9. marleyisalegend

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    Do the Iraqis believe Mccain will stay with their best interest in heart and devote countless dollars to making their lives better and more comfortable? $20 says if he stays, its under a hidden and self-serving agenda disguised as "helping Iraq."
     
  10. D_Martin van Burden

    D_Martin van Burden Account Disabled

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    All the soldiers?

    Really. I thought they would be a little more concerned with how many tours of duty they have served, and how ready they are to go home, with or without longlasting injuries and emotional scarring. Or their families and how rough it is to hold up a family and not know what's going over there. Maybe the soldiers your friend surveyed still like playin' Call of Duty without the X-Box. :/
     
  11. sargon20

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    I was thinking the same thing. If they want to stay in Iraq until 'the mission is accomplished' then yes McCain is the man.
     
  12. Skull Mason

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    Or maybe they were soldiers on tour with him. He didn't mention anything about x-box or call of duty over there. Their are doing what the signed up to do. They go to war, whether they believe in it or not. War sucks. They want to go home. But they know when someone is bullshitting about what they will do if elected regarding a war because they know, unlike us arm-chair soldiers here in america, that withdrawing probably isn't the best course of action right now. Regardless of whether we should be in this war or not, we are.

    Yes some of them are disappointed and concerned that they have to continue serving tours of duty, but does that mean they can't be concerned with someone who they think is a stooge being their commander?
     
  13. marleyisalegend

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    This argument is based on the idea of staying vs. leaving. I don't see a happy road for either, stay and create more chaos/animosity or leave and be deemed "abandoners." I don't see either option as being better than the other, they both suck. It's like choosing between dying of cancer and dying of AIDS. Neither side should pretend that their plan is without flaw and MAJOR mountains to climb ahead of us. The truth is this is one giant mess and no matter what we do, heads will continue rolling, literally and figuratively.

    I have a hard time believing that, if we stay there, it'll be rooted in genuine concern for the country's people. Some soldiers may have good intentions (while others just like playing good-guy/bad-guy) but that does nothing to admonish the corrupt driver thats at the wheel of this whole thing, a corrupt US government.
     
  14. sargon20

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    I'm not sure what leader could have been worst than Bush which the military supported by huge numbers over Kerry and Gore. It is without doubt they wouldn't even BE in Iraq if Gore had won in 2000.
     
  15. mindseye

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    Surely you're not saying that our choice of president should be subject to a global test?

    *cough*
     
  16. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    the post is a Wall Street Journal op piece, none of the words are mine

    I hadn't seen much about the question at the site (i.e., the Iraqi perspective)

    However, I have said elsewhere that the only thing about the prospect of an Obama Presidency that I have absolutely no ambivalence about, is the meliorative effect it would have in enhancing the image of the USA among certain parts of the global populace (I'm trying hard to think of something without a pejorative connotation, trying to avoid something such as "third world"), especially among the Muslim and African peoples

    His constant refrain of an immediate pullout, regardless of the consequences, is just troubling in so many aspects
     
  17. sargon20

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    HA!! The Wall Street Journal has daily almost hourly attacks on Obama. They are the ones with a giant Oracle in the lobby praying for Obama's defeat.
     
  18. B_RedDude

    B_RedDude New Member

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    try "underdeveloped nations" instead of "third world" --- it sounds more respectful

     
  19. vindicator

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    Why would we believe anything from the Wall Street Journal... especially when it's negative about Obama? The Wall Street Journal is owned by.... (wait for it)... Faux News. And as we all know that anything that comes from Faux News is complete BS. This story is a plant to make Obama look bad and big up John Mccain.

    They're worried now because Obama has a pretty decent lead in the polls.

    Obama isn't an idiot. I'm SURE he understands that you can't withdraw everything immediately. We're probably looking at a time of 1.5-2 years. That should be more then enough to transition and train the remaining Iraqi's.
     
  20. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    why, then, doesn't he say that?

     
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